Israel (now broader Mid East discussion) (5 Viewers)

[baarbogast]

 

[SamAndreas]

AP has picked this story up, this is what they said:

"BEIRUT (AP) — Israel’s military says it is now taking aim at the Lebanon-based Hezbollah’s financial arm and plans to attack a “large number of targets” in Beirut and elsewhere. Explosions have begun in Beirut’s southern suburbs, about an hour after the announcement Sunday. A senior Israeli intelligence official says the strikes target al-Qard al-Hassan. The registered nonprofit is sanctioned by both the U.S. and Saudi Arabia and provides financial services. It is also used by ordinary Lebanese. Israel says it is a Hezbollah unit and is used to pay operatives of the Iran-backed militant group."

AP News Summary at 7:38 p.m. EDT

Israel says it will target Hezbollah's financial arm and begins striking Beirut

www.ehextra.com

I don't think blowing up a bank branch blows up all that much money. Some transactional cash on hand will burn up.

If the banks computer system has backup's of their daily transaction, one or a few branches can pick up the load for the branches which were destroyed. The depositors will most likely be made whole.

 

[SystemShock]

You're a wee bit notorious around here.

What comes to my mind is that you or your ancestors may have come from Wales region of Britain.

You're always complaining.

???

What am I complaining about?

 

[SamAndreas]

@SamAndreas is right. You just cannot see the piece of propaganda for what it is.

Let's start simple:



The "little boy" on the ground who's allegedly being shot with bullets by a drone, does he look like "a little boy" to you? Especially in reference to the bystander in the foreground?

After you answer the question, I'll continue.

I suppose a drone could be made to shoot bullets but at the moment other than perhaps very large ones I don't think that is being done. Dropping bombs yes, not shooting bullets.

The problem is a gun which shoots bullets is that the gun acts like a pulse rocket engine. Insofar as the flight of the drone is concerned it will cause it to crash.

Shoot the gun, the drone stops moving, falls to the ground. Or shoot the gun and it will cause the control of the drone to be lost. Either way the drone is most likely lost.

I bet it would be real hell trying to get that control back for a drone operator if all it did was strip away the control for a moment. By the time the control could be recovered the drone would be tumbling.

 

[SamAndreas]

???

What am I complaining about?

All religions.

 

[SystemShock]

All religions.

I have no issues with Hinduism Jainism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Wicca, Satanism...

I do have a problem with what people do in the name of religion.

 

[Heathen Saint]

@SamAndreas is right. You just cannot see the piece of propaganda for what it is.

It’s quite ironic that you say this but at the same time repeat clear Israeli propaganda.

Let's start simple:



The "little boy" on the ground who's allegedly being shot with bullets by a drone, does he look like "a little boy" to you? Especially in reference to the bystander in the foreground?

After you answer the question, I'll continue.

Let’s start simple, as you say.

You see what through your own eyes appears to be a man versus a boy. Do you know the name of the person? Do you know where this happened? Do you know anything other than what you’ve seen in this brief clip?

I’m happy to provide some of those answers for you.

 

[Heathen Saint]

I have no issues with Hinduism Jainism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Wicca, Satanism...

I do have a problem with what people do in the name of religion.

As any reasonable person should.

Do you also have a problem with what Zionist extremists are doing in the name of their religion to the Palestinian people?

 

[SystemShock]

It’s quite ironic that you say this but at the same time repeat clear Israeli propaganda.

Sure.

Let’s start simple, as you say.

You see what through your own eyes appears to be a man versus a boy.

Given the angle of the shot, the person in then background is clearly significantly bigger than the person in the foreground (eyeballing it, seems the person in the background is some 20 feet away from person in foreground). The person in the foreground is definitely not a "little boy". The mass and body proportions seem to clearly show the person on the ground was not "a little boy", but a grown man.

For reference, I search for 6 year old Palestinian boy... that qualifies as a little boy, agree? and here is a picture of a little boy standing right next to 2 grown women.



Are you telling me the person in the background looks smaller to you than the person in the foreground? Are you saying that the person in the background indeed looks like a "little boy" to you?

Do you know the name of the person? Do you know where this happened? Do you know anything other than what you’ve seen in this brief clip?

I’m happy to provide some of those answers for you.

You are happy to provide some of those answers (and I take it you got the answers to those questions from the same sources as the video?), but you do not provide the answer to the simple question I asked.

So, again, I'll wait until you answer the very simple question I posed to you, then I'll continue.

 

[SamAndreas]

It’s quite ironic that you say this but at the same time repeat clear Israeli propaganda.



Let’s start simple, as you say.

You see what through your own eyes appears to be a man versus a boy. Do you know the name of the person? Do you know where this happened? Do you know anything other than what you’ve seen in this brief clip?

I’m happy to provide some of those answers for you.

Those question could perhaps be best answered by you if you were to phrase them as statements.

I think the record is clear, it's been a constant aspect for year, Hamas stages these things. Sometimes it's real, other times it's staged. This time I have no reservations in thinking it was staged.

I don't always think they are staged, only when I see flaws in the presentation of the slaughter. Sometimes it looks like bodies have been moved. So on and so forth.

Israelis play the camera lens as well, I see examples of those too.

 

[Heathen Saint]

Sure.

It wasn't hyperbole.

You call me pointing out a clear war crime as such 'propaganda' (and you still haven't explained why that is...) yet yourself repeat the 'human shields' line.

You're quite literally the pot here.

Given the angle of the shot, the person in then background is clearly significantly bigger than the person in the foreground (eyeballing it, seems the person in the background is some 20 feet away from person in foreground). The person in the foreground is definitely not a "little boy". The mass and body proportions seem to clearly show the person on the ground was not "a little boy", but a grown man.

It was an unarmed teenager allegedly throwing rocks toward heavily armed IDF vehicles. You can play the 'he's a grown man' game all day and twice on Sunday - but in the end, you're just arguing semantics.

His name was Rayan Ibrahim Hasan Al-Sayed. Reports are that he was anywhere from 14-17 years of age.

For reference, I search for 6 year old Palestinian boy... that qualifies as a little boy, agree? and here is a picture of a little boy standing right next to 2 grown women.



Are you telling me the person in the background looks smaller to you than the person in the foreground? Are you saying that the person in the background indeed looks like a "little boy" to you?

To answer the question you asked - not a typical "little boy", sure. But clearly an adolescent. I mean - you jumped pretty quickly to discredit this story without knowing a thing about the kid.

But hold on, System Shock -- let's set this straight - you seem to wish to discredit the source because they used the term 'little boy' for a teenager?

Considering that Israel has time and again without remorse killed children (infants, toddlers, preteens) - and there's ample evidence right in front of your face - do you really want to die on this hill?

You sure?

NYT: 65 Doctors, Nurses and Paramedics - What we saw in Gaza

You are happy to provide some of those answers (and I take it you got the answers to those questions from the same sources as the video?), but you do not provide the answer to the simple question I asked.

I've been more than happy to answer the simple question that you asked, as I did above.

So, again, I'll wait until you answer the very simple question I posed to you, then I'll continue.

It was answered.

Now - we going to delve into the fact that this incident was a clear war crime?
Opinion: I’m an American doctor who went to Gaza. What I saw wasn’t war — it was annihilation

 

[Heathen Saint]

Those question could perhaps be best answered by you if you were to phrase them as statements.

I think the record is clear, it's been a constant aspect for year, Hamas stages these things. Sometimes it's real, other times it's staged. This time I have no reservations in thinking it was staged.

The record isn't clear. What evidence do you have that this is a constant pattern in this conflict?

Forgive me if I have some distrust in folks who spread lies about beheaded Israeli babies on October 7th yet ignore actual pictures, video, and other empirical evidence of beheaded Palestinian babies from US-made bombs.

I don't always think they are staged, only when I see flaws in the presentation of the slaughter. Sometimes it looks like bodies have been moved. So on and so forth.

Israelis play the camera lens as well, I see examples of those too.

Here's a question for you @SamAndreas

How much evidence would it take and what kind (method) for you to believe that Israel is intentionally massacring civilians and committing war crimes?

If you could, please be specific.

 

[Heathen Saint]

While we’re all here — who wants to discredit / twist these incidents?

There are quite literally too many to go through. I’m assuming the next goalposts being moved will be something along the lines of “well it’s not ALL of the IDF doing this..”.

Gaza man with Down's syndrome attacked by IDF dog and left to die, mother tells BBC

Israel bombs schoolchildren in Jabalia

 

[SamAndreas]

Here's a question for you @SamAndreas

How much evidence would it take and what kind (method) for you to believe that Israel is intentionally massacring civilians and committing war crimes?

If you could, please be specific.

It wouldn't take any more evidence at all to convince me of that Israel is intentionally massacring civilians. That's what I think is happening as well.

I also go on to think that Hamas, and Hezbollah are intentionally massacring civilians.

What would it take for you to believe that latter part as well?




That leaves us with both civilian Israelis and Palestinians who are not associated with those murders as potentially being "the good people".

The point to keep in mind about me is I haven't picked sides. And that's kind of a big thing because I am a Jew.

I'm plenty sore with zionism and the Israeli government.



Incase you haven't noticed I also don't like the noisome propaganda coming from either side.

 

[SystemShock]

It wasn't hyperbole.

Sure.

You call me pointing out a clear war crime as such 'propaganda' (and you still haven't explained why that is...) yet yourself repeat the 'human shields' line.

I am getting there, there's more to that sequence.... but first, you have to tell me, the image you posted, do you really see a "little boy" in that image?

You're quite literally the pot here.

Sure. How about you just answer the question? Instead of doing whatever you are doing?

It was an unarmed teenager

Ah! Teenager now. Can we agree a teenager is not a "little boy"?

allegedly throwing rocks toward heavily armed IDF vehicles.

Allegedly. You know this is going to bring more questions, right? But that's for later...

You can play the 'he's a grown man' game all day and twice on Sunday - but in the end, you're just arguing semantics.

Semantics? The difference between a grown man and a little boy is semantics?

His name was Rayan Ibrahim Hasan Al-Sayed. Reports are that he was anywhere from 14-17 years of age.

So, again, not a "little boy"... so they have his entire name, but no one knew his age... ok... but let's table that for now...

Now that we are here... I want you to look at the person in the image you posted, and I want you to carefully look at the image from the IG video. When you look at the size of the arms, the size of the head, the bulk of the body, can you honestly tell me that the person in the image you posted is the same person in that video?

If you have told me the person with the bicycle was the same person as the picture above, I wouldn't have a reason to doubt you. The complexion fits. but the person lying on the street in the video, that person's complexion is much bigger.

To answer the question you asked - not a typical "little boy", sure.

The answer is "no, it is not a little boy". Don't give me this B.S. of not a "typical little boy".

On a related note, in Islam, a boy becomes a man once he's exhibited signs like a mustache/beard starting growing, etc.. or at the age of 15, whichever comes first.

But clearly an adolescent. I mean - you jumped pretty quickly to discredit this story without knowing a thing about the kid.

I was given a narrative, with a headline describing an event, and the video didn't reflect the narrative.

But hold on, System Shock -- let's set this straight - you seem to wish to discredit the source because they used the term 'little boy' for a teenager?

That's just the beginning. There's more. But I first wanted to make sure that we agreed that the person on the street in the video was not a "little boy".

Considering that Israel has time and again without remorse killed children (infants, toddlers, preteens) - and there's ample evidence right in front of your face - do you really want to die on this hill?

If the ample evidence includes videos like the one you posted, well... now, I don't doubt that civilian men, women, and children have died... but again, that's another discussion. We are discussing the piece of propaganda you posted.

You sure?

Yep.

NYT: 65 Doctors, Nurses and Paramedics - What we saw in Gaza

I can only discredit one thing at a time, and have to do it slowly, since you can't even say plainly and outright the person in the video is not a "little boy".
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/09/opinion/gaza-doctor-interviews.html

I've been more than happy to answer the simple question that you asked, as I did above.

You danced around it, and then gave it some conditions, and then apologized for it.
You have not acknowledged what everyone else can see, that the person in the video is not a "little boy".

Now - we going to delve into the fact that this incident was a clear war crime?

The incident was clearly staged.

So, to recap, now we have established that piece of propaganda lied to you about the person on the street being "a little boy". Now that you replied "it was a teenager" and posted a picture of a teenager, now I want you to look at the man lying on the street, his complexion, size of arms, head, torso, and tell me that man looks anything like the person in the second picture you posted.