It's Official - Reconciliation It Is (1 Viewer)

[Galbreath34]

i've been wishing that for over a year now.

Yeah, I look back at how derailed and disastrous Bill's first year was, so there's hope yet. Just get him a fat intern, get the economy rolling and keep the Republicans talking about head instead of meddling with actual law making and we may actually pull out of our economic nose-dive.

 

[Bulletproof Tiger]

There have been all along. If you don't think trying to appease Republicans has affected the bill, you haven't been paying attention.

I disagree. The bill got CHOPPED UP well before Scott Brown won the seat in Massachusetts. They tossed the public option, amongst other liberal holy grails, because they couldn't get Democratic support even when they had a super majority. They didn't add any conservative ideas. They did, however, move more to the center left trying to gain Democratic votes.

 

[Bulletproof Tiger]

Yeah, I look back at how derailed and disastrous Bill's first year was, so there's hope yet. Just get him a fat intern, get the economy rolling and keep the Republicans talking about head instead of meddling with actual law making and we may actually pull out of our economic nose-dive.

Haha. A presidential sex scandal is always good fun.

 

[PurpleBlack&Gold]

So that's the political reality, right? What happens to your side when the uninsured have care and the ERs aren't full of uninsured? What happens when we see stability in insurance rates and the "conservatives" lies are exposed? How do the people vote when health care costs stabilize and the Republicans fought only for the benefit of the rich and insurance companies?

How are the Republicans going to get insurance companies to vote?

If you think the republicans are only trying to help insurance companies then they should be all for this bill. Forcing everyone to buy health insurance will be a windfall for the insurance companies. Insurance companies will be the main beneficiaries of this bill, plain and simple.

The bill does nothing to address the rising costs of care, insuring everyone is a bandaid. Eventually costs must be controlled and that is when quality of care will begin to erode. Unless your one of those rich people the republicans love so much, then you can afford the best doctors that operate outside of the system.

I can't understand why the republicans are not all for this bill? It helps their buddies the rich folk and their other buddies the insurance companies.

Forcing everyone into a broken system is not the answer.

 

[dapperdan]

What happens to your side when the uninsured have care and the ERs aren't full of uninsured?

I would imagine that the vast middle, the independent voters that generally determine the elections, will see the merits of the program and reward Democrats for their courage.

What happens when we see stability in insurance rates and the "conservatives" lies are exposed?

Again, I think if this is how things play out, then you'll see Democrats rewarded politically for their vision. It could be a political reward that lasts for a generation, much like the reward Democrats received from the FDR era.

How do the people vote when health care costs stabilize and the Republicans fought only for the benefit of the rich and insurance companies?

Uh, you've run right into the ditch with this rhetoric. The first group that Obama paid off (co-opted into the plan) were the insurance companies. To hear you talk of the evil Republicans fighting for the benefit of the insurance companies is laughable. And regarding the "rich"...it's not a "rich" versus "poor" issue. It's a Team Democrat "Rich" Group versus the Team Republican "Rich" Group. To the victor go the spoils, that's the Chicago Way. But please don't try to paint this as the virtuous Democrats versus the evil Republicans. That's laughable.

How are the Republicans going to get insurance companies to vote?

As I said above, the White House put the insurance companies in their pocket as the first order of business.

 

[Ice Bowl]

I just kind of wish Obama would grow a pair and say, if we're going through reconciliation, let's go ahead and remove any bones we tossed the Republicans' way to make them like the bill. Make it 100% Democrat and make them face losing the concessions they gained along the way as punishment for the filibuster. It'd make the Republicans accountable to voters for not at least getting their input on the bill locked in, and it would make the filibuster have a real consequence, but we're not gonna see that happen.

I'd love to see that, too. The majority of the country favors single-payer, so there's no way it wouldn't be a winner politically. Trouble is, too many Democratic legislators are bought and paid for by the "insurance" industry, and the insurance companies would never permit that to happen.

 

[Galbreath34]

Forcing everyone into a broken system is not the answer.

At the risk of sending the Republicans into overdrive...

I agree, it's not the real answer, and I doubt we'd get a real answer if we had 95% one party in control of both houses and the White House. Still, it's been a growing problem since Reagan was in office, and it's been 17 years now since Clinton made the first serious effort. Something has to be done. My long term hope is that once you have everyone in, the pressure for deeper and more meaningful reform builds, and better plans (single payer, extended/better public option, all the way to UHC) can be put on the table and will only have the hurdle of improvement versus getting tons of uninsured into the system.

 

[AppleSaint]

Hilarious to see Republicans up in arms over Reconciliation even though they have used it TIME AND TIME AND TIME again to pass not just legislation but their own major legislation

Yet another example of them wanting laws to be repealed when the other parties uses them but kept in tact when they use them

 

[Cam71090]

Wishful thinking on your part.

If the Dems *dont* get healthcare passed by November, the Republicans win back more seats than if they do.

Or have you forgotten that the GOP gameplan was to obstruct healthcare all along, and to NEVER be bi-partisan about it, regardless?


Gee, doesnt sound to me like they EVER planned on passing ANY healthcare, and that they ALWAYS planned to block it no matter what.

i dont understand the whole bipartisan thing here. Nobody agrees with anybody. And they never will. At the little health-care summit the Dems basically said "here is what we are doing." To which the Reps replied "we dont like it." To which the Dems retorted "Too bad, we had hoped you would be 'bipartisan.'"

Its all political posturing. And the sad thing is we are all picking sides with people who arent even close to thinking about you or me. It just so happens that maybe one side wants the same thing we want. In the end, whatever gets done, will get done for the wrong reasons.

 

[PurpleBlack&Gold]

At the risk of sending the Republicans into overdrive...

I agree, it's not the real answer, and I doubt we'd get a real answer if we had 95% one party in control of both houses and the White House. Still, it's been a growing problem since Reagan was in office, and it's been 17 years now since Clinton made the first serious effort. Something has to be done. My long term hope is that once you have everyone in, the pressure for deeper and more meaningful reform builds, and better plans (single payer, extended/better public option, all the way to UHC) can be put on the table and will only have the hurdle of improvement versus getting tons of uninsured into the system.

I agree something needs to be done. I just don't think this will help all that much. The real problem is the cost. Fix the cost issues and it would be more affordable thus allowing more people access. Of course this would make doctors unhappy because it would cut into their salaries, so the politicians realize the only way to get the AMA to sign off on this is to choose the other option. Stick it to the people by forcing everyone to buy a bad product. The whole damn model needs to be blown up and rebooted. Wellness/preventive incentives and rewards for healthy living need to be paramount to reduce long term costs.

We need to get out of this mindset that we can do whatever we want without consequences to our long term health. Go along, do whatever you like and we have a pill to fix whatever your problems that may arise. It just is not working, well unless you are a stockholder for GSK or Pfizer, then its working just fine.

My fear is that this thing will pass. We all are forced to buy insurance, no one can be excluded because of previous conditions. Sounds great until you are thrown in a pool for those with a "condition" and your premium goes through the roof.

I have not read the entire bill but can anyone tell me what happens if you make more than the cut off for a subsidy but you fall in a high risk pool that would otherwise have not been able to find coverage. What is to stop the premium from being insanely high? I am hoping there is language that addresses this issue in the bill.

What about "special" treatments that are enormously expensive for cancer patients. Will the insurance companies be forced to pay for these treatments? Who decides who gets what care?

 

[dtc]

If you think the republicans are only trying to help insurance companies then they should be all for this bill. Forcing everyone to buy health insurance will be a windfall for the insurance companies. Insurance companies will be the main beneficiaries of this bill, plain and simple.

The bill does nothing to address the rising costs of care, insuring everyone is a bandaid. Eventually costs must be controlled and that is when quality of care will begin to erode. Unless your one of those rich people the republicans love so much, then you can afford the best doctors that operate outside of the system.

I can't understand why the republicans are not all for this bill? It helps their buddies the rich folk and their other buddies the insurance companies.

Forcing everyone into a broken system is not the answer.

That's the simple version and why I think the Republicans are really fighting this 100% despite the addition of many of their suggestions.

Once this thing gets passed and it starts to work insurance will still be raping us. They'll figure out whatever they can to screw us and there will be amendments and adjustments to the plan. Sooner, rather than later, we'll see a single payer or even an extension of medicare for all.

The funny thing is insurance companies could have avoided all of this had they actually wanted to. Of course, instead of containing costs or making themselves better, they continued the rape knowing it would all end eventually.

 

[dtc]

Uh, you've run right into the ditch with this rhetoric. The first group that Obama paid off (co-opted into the plan) were the insurance companies. To hear you talk of the evil Republicans fighting for the benefit of the insurance companies is laughable. And regarding the "rich"...it's not a "rich" versus "poor" issue. It's a Team Democrat "Rich" Group versus the Team Republican "Rich" Group. To the victor go the spoils, that's the Chicago Way. But please don't try to paint this as the virtuous Democrats versus the evil Republicans. That's laughable.


As I said above, the White House put the insurance companies in their pocket as the first order of business.

There is a difference between keeping your enemies close and actually fighting their fights.

 

[dtc]

I agree something needs to be done. I just don't think this will help all that much. The real problem is the cost. Fix the cost issues and it would be more affordable thus allowing more people access. Of course this would make doctors unhappy because it would cut into their salaries, so the politicians realize the only way to get the AMA to sign off on this is to choose the other option. Stick it to the people by forcing everyone to buy a bad product. The whole damn model needs to be blown up and rebooted. Wellness/preventive incentives and rewards for healthy living need to be paramount to reduce long term costs.

We need to get out of this mindset that we can do whatever we want without consequences to our long term health. Go along, do whatever you like and we have a pill to fix whatever your problems that may arise. It just is not working, well unless you are a stockholder for GSK or Pfizer, then its working just fine.

My fear is that this thing will pass. We all are forced to buy insurance, no one can be excluded because of previous conditions. Sounds great until you are thrown in a pool for those with a "condition" and your premium goes through the roof.

I have not read the entire bill but can anyone tell me what happens if you make more than the cut off for a subsidy but you fall in a high risk pool that would otherwise have not been able to find coverage. What is to stop the premium from being insanely high? I am hoping there is language that addresses this issue in the bill.

What about "special" treatments that are enormously expensive for cancer patients. Will the insurance companies be forced to pay for these treatments? Who decides who gets what care?

You can't fix the cost problem without killing the beast that is insurance. Killing the profits being made by companies acting as death panels is first. If that's not enough, then the other folks profiting off of the suffering of Americans will be next. Don't get me wrong and think I want doctors to wear beige scrubs of hospitals to look like Gulags, but to fix this problem it may be necessary for doctors, hospitals, drug companies and others to actually suffer through lower wages.

That's what happens when there is a fundamental shift in a market just like blacksmiths and coopers. Sorry.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Here comes the "Slaughter Solution"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/15/AR2010031503742_pf.html

So the plan is now to amend a law hasnt been passed by passing another bill without a vote. All to give lawmakers a fig leaf they can hide behind to say they didnt vote for it.

Political sausage-making is rarely pretty, but we're entering some pretty rare air here.