It's Official - Reconciliation It Is (2 Viewers)

[saintsfan342000]

Is anyone else the slightest bit concerned that the pharmaceutical industry is spending so much money supporting this bill? People continually denounce the evil insurers and their enormous profits, but not a word on Big Pharm and now here's Big Pharm spending $12 million on advertising to pass this bil. They wouldn't be doing this is they didn't stand to profit huge sums.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

Is anyone else the slightest bit concerned that the pharmaceutical industry is spending so much money supporting this bill? People continually denounce the evil insurers and their enormous profits, but not a word on Big Pharm and now here's Big Pharm spending $12 million on advertising to pass this bil. They wouldn't be doing this is they didn't stand to profit huge sums.

Thats because they do. It was the deal with the devil so the Democrats could have an ally in this fight so they werent being hit from every angle by every player in the system that profits from this dysfunctional system. This bill will insure more Americans and increase coverages. Pharm industries stand to benefit heavily from that.

In a perfect world you would reform the pharm industry along with the rest of the system in a manner that would lower prices and regulate them tougher. That is something that was included in the 90s bill but is absent in the current proposal.

As it stands we can only hope that when this bill passes it wont be another 50 years til we see another meaningful reform to the system that will still have problems after this bill passes. And hopefully, in that reform, pharmaceutical reform is part of the language.

 

[J-Donk]

As it stands we can only hope that when this bill passes it wont be another 50 years til we see another meaningful reform to the system.....

That's really the key. My hope is that once this bill passes it can be built upon.

 

[daybreaker]

More proof that passing the bill, even though reconciliation, is better for the Democrats than letting it die... this time, based on polling of "THE INDEPENDENTS" that a few people on here like to keep crying about as proof the Democrats are doomed:

Of the independents polled in Colorado, New Hampshire, and Nevada by Benenson Strategy on behalf of the Service Employees International Union for a survey released Monday afternoon, 32 percent said they'll vote for a Democrat, 33 percent said they'll vote for a Republican, and 34 percent were unsure.


And they didn't like either party's performance in Congress, but a clear advantage went to Democrats: independents: Dems collected a 33 percent approval/64 percent disapproval rating; Republicans, 26 percent approval/71 percent disapproval. [...]


And they want Congress to do something on health care: 69 percent of Independents said that health care is "an urgent problem that requires immediate action" or "serious problem that should be dealt with as soon as possible"--though 63 percent said Democrats had cut "too many deals with special interest groups such as pharmaceutical companies" as a prime complaint with health reform.​

Also backs up disapproval of the pharma deal- but NO Bronco is right- had they taken them on too, we'd be seeing twice as much money going towards defeating the bill.

And what good is cheaper medication when insurance is $1000/month? Take care of the greater need first, then move on to the other one. Dont bite off more than you can chew.
​

 

[Galbreath34]

Is anyone else the slightest bit concerned that the pharmaceutical industry is spending so much money supporting this bill? People continually denounce the evil insurers and their enormous profits, but not a word on Big Pharm and now here's Big Pharm spending $12 million on advertising to pass this bil. They wouldn't be doing this is they didn't stand to profit huge sums.

It's because they're the biggest part of health care costs and have long been the favorite son industry of Congress and both parties. Papa Bush was a big stakeholder in Pfizer for years (and may still be). No one wants to cut or remotely limit the industry because the political cash cow is too good to risk damaging, and it's easy to run panic ads that we're cutting valuable research and may never cure anything again. Still, they do things like allow end runs around making generics available (tweaking patents to double their life), do things like ban the $4/inhale albuterol to enforce expensive new HFA's with years until any generic will be legal. Big agriculture is the only industry that's ever remotely been in the ball park with the protected status of the Pharmaceutical industry. They'd funnel money into any plan, and neither party will ever have the nuts to take them on. Every single tort reform/malpractice reform/enforced cost control would be exhausted before you'd even see someone float a bill to remotely suggest touching big Pharm.

 

[4saintspirit]

There have been all along. If you don't think trying to appease Republicans has affected the bill, you haven't been paying attention.

i will bite -- just what is in the original bill to appease the republicans --

 

[4saintspirit]

Hilarious to see Republicans up in arms over Reconciliation even though they have used it TIME AND TIME AND TIME again to pass not just legislation but their own major legislation

Yet another example of them wanting laws to be repealed when the other parties uses them but kept in tact when they use them

so that makes it right -- how about when the democrats were up in arms about the misuse of reconcilitation until it suits them -- same thing --

 

[Galbreath34]

i will bite -- just what is in the original bill to appease the republicans --

Go ahead bite. As Bronco noted there are hundreds of amendments proposed by Republicans. I'll bite, what's your evidence that these changes from committee and the floor have been purged from the bill?

 

[4saintspirit]

Go ahead bite. As Bronco noted there are hundreds of amendments proposed by Republicans. I'll bite, what's your evidence that these changes from committee and the floor have been purged from the bill?

u said I have not been paying attention -- so enlighten me with some specifics -- bronco said 100 of them -- name some of them added to appease republicans and not their own democratic counterparts who hated the bill

 

[Galbreath34]

You win it's 100% Democrat and they've managed to lock out every bit of Republican input. It's the first such bill in history, but 4saintspirit is correct. I am humbled and retract it all, it's all a Democratic pure thing.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

u said I have not been paying attention -- so enlighten me with some specifics -- bronco said 100 of them -- name some of them added to appease republicans and not their own democratic counterparts who hated the bill

Review a few of the Republican initiatives included in legislation passed by Congress:

• Includes personal responsibility incentives: Allows health insurance premium to vary based on participation in proven employer wellness programs
  • (Sources: H.R. 3468, “Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act” (Castle bill); H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill), "Coverage, Prevention and Reform Act")
• Advances medical liability reform through grants to States: Provides grants to States to jump-start and evaluate promising medical liability reform ideas to put patient safety first, prevent medical errors, and reduce liability premiums.
  • (Sources: S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act” (Ryan bill); S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act” (Burr-Coburn, Ryan-Nunes bill))
• Extends dependent coverage to age 26: Gives young adults new options.
  • (Sources: H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill))
• Allows automatic enrollment by employers in health insurance: Allows employee to opt-out.
  • (Sources: House Republican Substitute; H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); “Coverage, Prevention, and Reform Act” )
• Mechanisms to improve quality.
  • (Sources: H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act;” S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act;” H.R. 3400, Republican Study Group bill; S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill))

In addition to the Republican ideas already included in the legislation that’s passed the House and the Senate, the President’s Proposal incorporates a number of additional proposals that were included in Republican plans that focus on combating waste, fraud and abuse in government.
The President remains open to other policies as well. And the purpose of the Bipartisan Summit is to review all ideas and ensure that the best ideas are included in the plan.
Review the new Republican initiatives included in the President’s Proposal:

• Comprehensive Sanctions Database. The President’s Proposal establishes a comprehensive Medicare and Medicaid sanctions database, overseen by the HHS Inspector General. This database will provide a central storage location, allowing for law enforcement access to information related to past sanctions on health care providers, suppliers and related entities.
  • (Source: H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill))
• Registration and Background Checks of Billing Agencies and Individuals. In an effort to decrease dishonest billing practices in the Medicare program, the President’s Proposal will assist in reducing the number of individuals and agencies with a history of fraudulent activities participating in Federal health care programs. It ensures that entities that bill for Medicare on behalf of providers are in good standing. It also strengthens the Secretary’s ability to exclude from Medicare individuals who knowingly submit false or fraudulent claims.
  • (Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act&#8221
• Expanded Access to the Healthcare Integrity and Protection Data Bank. Increasing access to the health care integrity data bank will improve coordination and information sharing in anti-fraud efforts. The President’s Proposal broadens access to the data bank to quality control and peer review organizations and private plans that are involved in furnishing items or services reimbursed by Federal health care program. It includes criminal penalties for misuse.
  • (Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act&#8221
• Liability of Medicare Administrative Contractors for Claims Submitted by Excluded Providers. In attacking fraud, it is critical to ensure the contractors that are paying claims are doing their utmost to ensure excluded providers do not receive Medicare payments. Therefore, the President’s Proposal provision holds Medicare Administrative Contractors accountable for Federal payment for individuals or entities excluded from the Federal programs or items or services for which payment is denied.
  • (Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act&#8221
• Community Mental Health Centers. The President’s Proposal ensures that individuals have access to comprehensive mental health services in the community setting, but strengthens standards for facilities that seek reimbursement as community mental health centers by ensuring these facilities are not taking advantage of Medicare patients or the taxpayers.
  • (Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act&#8221
• Limiting Debt Discharge in Bankruptcies of Fraudulent Health Care Providers or Suppliers. The President’s Proposal will assist in recovering overpayments made to providers and suppliers and return such funds to the Medicare Trust Fund. It prevents fraudulent health care providers from discharging through bankruptcy amounts due to the Secretary from overpayments.
  • (Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act&#8221
• Use of Technology for Real-Time Data Review. The President’s Proposal speeds access to claims data to identify potentially fraudulent payments more quickly. It establishes a system for using technology to provide real-time data analysis of claim and payments under public programs to identify and stop waste, fraud and abuse.
  • (Source: Roskam Amendment offered in House Ways & Means Committee markup)
• Illegal Distribution of a Medicare or Medicaid Beneficiary Identification or Billing Privileges. Fraudulent billing to Medicare and Medicaid programs costs taxpayers millions of dollars each year. Individuals looking to gain access to a beneficiary’s personal information approach Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries with false incentives. Many beneficiaries unwittingly give over this personal information without ever receiving promised services. The President’s Proposal adds strong sanctions, including jail time, for individuals who purchase, sell or distribute Medicare beneficiary identification numbers or billing privileges under Medicare or Medicaid – if done knowingly, intentionally, and with intent to defraud.
  • (Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act&#8221
• Study of Universal Product Numbers Claims Forms for Selected Items and Services Under the Medicare Program. The President’s Proposal requires HHS to study and issue a report to Congress that examines the costs and benefits of assigning universal product numbers (UPNs) to selected items and services reimbursed under Medicare. The report must examine whether UPNs could help improve the efficient operation of Medicare and its ability to detect fraud and abuse.
  • (Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”, Roskam Amendment offered in House Ways & Means Committee markup)

Here is a list of big complaints the GOP had that were partially or completely addressed by the current bill.

1. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – DEFICIT NEUTRAL BILL: “Do the American people believe that this almost 2,000 page bill won’t add to the deficit?” [Rep. Eric Cantor, 10/29/2009]

HOUSE BILL – DEFICIT NEUTRAL BILL: According to the Congressional Budget Office, the House bill costs $894 billion over 10 years and actually reduces the deficit by $30 billion and continues to reduce the deficit over the second 10 years.
​

2. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – REDUCE COSTS OVER LONG TERM: “Nevertheless, House Republicans recognize the need to lower health care costs.” [Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN), 9/9/09]

HOUSE BILL – REDUCES COSTS OVER LONG TERM: Encourages payment reforms that can help lower costs. Requires the Department of Health and Human Services to establish specific benchmarks for expansion of the Accountable Care Organization, Payment Bundling, and Medical Home pilot programs. The bill will also slow the rate of growth of the Medicare program from 6.6% annually to 5.3%.
​

3. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – POLICIES ACROSS STATE LINES: “Interstate competition allowing people to buy insurance across state lines.” [Sen. John Thune (R-SD), 9/8/2009]

HOUSE BILL – POLICIES ACROSS STATE LINES: Allows for the creation of State Health Insurance Compacts – permits states to enter into agreements to allow for the sale of insurance across state lines.
​

4. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – MEDICAL MALPRACTICE REFORM: “Why not bring about reasonable restrictions and limits on medical malpractice claims to end the era of defensive medicine?” [Rep. Mike Pence (R-IA), 9/9/2009]

HOUSE BILL – ENCOURAGES MALPRACTICE REFORM: The bill establishes a voluntary state incentives grant program to encourage states to implement “certificate of merit” and “early offer” alternatives to traditional medical malpractice litigation.
​

5. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – HIGH RISK POOLS: “Senator McCain has a proposal sometimes called high-risk pools at the state level…These are efforts I think we can have bipartisan agreement on and deal with the question of pre-existing conditions.” [Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA), 9/10/2009]

HOUSE BILL – HIGH RISK POOLS: To fill the gap before the Exchange becomes available in 2013, the bill creates an insurance program with financial assistance for those uninsured for several months or denied policy due to preexisting conditions.
​

6. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – ALLOW YOUNG PEOPLE TO STAY ON PARENTS’ POLICIES: “Recognizes that not all high school and college graduates are able to find a job that offers health care coverage after graduation. By allowing dependents to remain on their parents’ health policies up to the age of 25, the number of uninsured Americans could be reduced by up to 7 million.” [Republican Health Solutions Group]

HOUSE BILL – ALLOW YOUNG PEOPLE TO STAY ON PARENTS’ POLICIES: The bill requires health plans to allow young people to remain on their parents’ insurance policy until they turn 27.
​

7. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – NO PUBLIC MONEY FOR ABORTION: “The American people will not stand for government-run insurance that uses taxpayer money to fund abortions in this country.” [Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN), 10/16/2009]

HOUSE BILL – NO PUBLIC MONEY FOR ABORTION: The bill prohibits abortion services from being made part of essential benefits package and prohibits federal funds from being used to pay for abortion (except in cases of rape, incest, and to save life of the woman).
​

8. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – PROTECT SMALL BUSINESSES: “Helps employers offer health care coverage to their workers by reducing their administrative costs through a new small business tax credit.” [Republican Health Solutions Group]

HOUSE BILL – PROTECTS SMALL BUSINESSES: The bill exempts 86% of businesses from the requirement to provide coverage. Businesses with payrolls below $500,000 are exempt while firms with payrolls between $500,000 and $750,000 would pay a graduated penalty. Small businesses would also receive a tax credit that helps cover 50% of their health care expenses.
​

9. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – PROMOTE JOB WELLNESS PROGRAMS: “Promotes prevention and wellness by giving employers and insurers greater flexibility to financially reward employees who seek to achieve or maintain a healthy weight, quit smoking, and manage chronic illnesses like diabetes.” [Republican Health Solutions Group]

HOUSE BILL – PROMOTE JOB WELLNESS PROGRAMS: The bill establishes a grant program to help small employers create or strengthen workplace wellness programs.
​

10. REPUBLICANS ASKED FOR – DELIVERY SYSTEM REFORM: “Uses new and innovative treatment programs to better coordinate care between health
care providers, ensuring that those with chronic disease receive the care they need and do not continue to fall through the cracks.” [Republican Health Solutions Group]

HOUSE BILL – DELIVERY SYSTEM REFORM: The bill requires the Department of Health and Human Services to establish specific benchmarks for the expansion of the Accountable Care Organization, Payment Bundling, and Medical Home pilot programs.
​

A few other notable compromises The bolded are things taken direclty from GOP's "Solutions For America" website. All included in the bill :

(2) "Allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do." This is the very purpose of the exchanges, as defined in Section 1312. Insurers are required to pool the risk of all the small businesses and individuals in the new markets rather than treating them as small, single units. That gives the newly pooled consumers bargaining power akin to that of a massive corporation or labor union, just as conservatives want. It also gives insurers reason to compete aggressively for their business, which is key to the conservative vision. Finally, empowering the exchanges to use prudential purchasing maximizes the power and leverage that consumers will now enjoy.
(3) "Give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs." Section 1302 of the Senate bill does this directly. The provision is entitled "the Waiver for State Innovation," and it gives states the power to junk the whole of the health-care plan -- that means the individual mandate, the Medicaid expansion, all of it -- if they can do it better and cheaper.
(4) "End junk lawsuits." It's not entirely clear what this means, as most malpractice lawsuits actually aren't junk lawsuits. The evidence on this is pretty clear: The malpractice problem is on operating tables, not in court rooms. Which isn't to deny that our current system is broken for patients and doctors alike. The Senate bill proposes to deal with this in Section 6801, which encourages states to develop new malpractice systems and suggests that Congress fund the most promising experiments. This compromise makes a lot of sense given the GOP's already-expressed preference for letting states "create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs," but since what the Republicans actually want is a national system capping damages, I can see how this compromise wouldn't be to their liking.

And here is an impartial list of other republican amendments submitted, passed, and/or accepted in the current healthcare bill



4saintspirit: I expect at a minimum a thank you for doing work that is easily achievable if you spent 10 minutes on google.

 

[Galbreath34]

Here is a list of big complaints the GOP had that were partially or completely addressed by the current bill.
A few other notable compromises The bolded are things taken direclty from GOP's "Solutions For America" website. All included in the bill :

And here is an impartial list of other republican amendments submitted, passed, and/or accepted in the current healthcare bill



4saintspirit: I expect at a minimum a thank you for doing work that is easily achievable if you spent 10 minutes on google.

I'd thank you, but I already recanted, and I'm sure these are all Democratic lies.

 

[4saintspirit]

Here is a list of big complaints the GOP had that were partially or completely addressed by the current bill.
A few other notable compromises The bolded are things taken direclty from GOP's "Solutions For America" website. All included in the bill :

And here is an impartial list of other republican amendments submitted, passed, and/or accepted in the current healthcare bill



4saintspirit: I expect at a minimum a thank you for doing work that is easily achievable if you spent 10 minutes on google.

To be perfectly honest - it wasnt directed at you -- but thank you - personally its not that important to me -- I dont like the bill for reasons that have little to do with whether conservatives or liberals like it - But to call this a bill that the democrats really are interested in working with republicans on is a little misleading no matter what those points are --

 

[4saintspirit]

I'd thank you, but I already recanted, and I'm sure these are all Democratic lies.

I never mentioned anything about lies -- all politicians -- republican and democrats routinely lie and mistate the facts -- thats the nature of the game -- just like back room deals are -- the only thing I dislike is when some only attribute poor behavior to one political party --

 

[Algsaint]

This entire thread has been a good read and entertaining.

The hypocrisy of the Republican Party is reaching new levels every day.