I've never said it before, but I think it's time... (2 Viewers)

[LombardiGras]

The error on special teams really bothered me. It's like Payton just isn't getting the details right. The Saints scored a TD on the opening drive then the defense got a stop. Then all of a sudden we give the ball back and set them up in the red zone. Payton should be feeling the heat, he's not getting the job done.

 

[hankster2]

Frankly, if you don't like the thread, go somewhere else. This year's been bad enough.

I've posted enough on here that if I want to present a well laid out and non-bashing opinion on our future in it's own thread instead of dumping into a ****-storm on that other thread, then I'm gonna do it. No puppies were hurt in the process.

Agreed. And if I'd like to express my frustration with all the anti Payton sentiment on this board and multiple "fire (or trade) Payton" threads (which I think is a knee-jerk reaction to an unlucky situation) - I'll do that... not go somewhere else.

Your in a public forum at an emotional time so your ideas aren't immune to criticism and will likely be met with opposition, no matter how many posts you have.

So... agree to disagree on this topic.

 

[catothagreat]

Saints fans, we have the right coach in place, as well as general manager. What we have to start doing is being more fiscally responsible as well as start drafting real football players. We can not continue to waste money in free agency as well as draft players that two to three years after they are drafted, they are no longer in the league. We can't continue to operate like this

 

[Suavecito8]

My question for the people that want him fired is who will replace him? I rather keep him until Brees retires. I know it doesn't look like it now but next year this team will be a lot better. At least I think so.

 

[blackadder]

Saints fans, we have the right coach in place, as well as general manager. What we have to start doing is being more fiscally responsible as well as start drafting real football players. We can not continue to waste money in free agency as well as draft players that two to three years after they are drafted, they are no longer in the league. We can't continue to operate like this

Okay, can you call Payton and Loomis and just let them know?

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Don't think its the leardership. It's mainly the personnel misses. You don't decide to slowly transition to a ball control offense that helps a defensive team and not invest in quality defensive talent.

Marcus Peters was on the Board at 16. We passed for Peat.

Knowing that passrusher was a major need watch Shane Ray slide from a top 10 pick and not pounce knowing we had 8-9 picks. We pounced for Ingram for Christ sakes with less picks to play with. Heck Preston Smith was sitting there at 31 and we passed on him.

Having worked with Ingram for 4 years you don't go into FA and double dip on him and Spiller when you could have easily signed Reggie Bush and Drafted David Johnson for cheaper.

It's been as much about personnel misses and Sean getting wide eyed on personnel as its been on anything.


With the players average posters on this board have been enamored with over the years that were in striking distance people on this board could have done better at drafting a competent team. There are some on this board that know the scheme fits better than the damn coaches at times it seems.

Its about missing out on Brandon Browner the year b4 and then rushing to the podium to sign him despite the pats giving a red flag by refusing to pay him.

Its as much about Payton wanting to change the whole damn defensive scheme after the 2013 season to match seattles and Sign Byrd to a lucrative fn contract as it is about anything. That same logic lead to us drafting SJB In the 2nd round because we needed huge corners to play the same style of defense only to see him cut a year later.


ITs pretty obvious why RR said the ish he said......because it was true.......SP wanted to meddle to much in ish. I still can't fathom wanting to change the #3 ranked D from the previous year because Seattle whipped your *** using a basic D with excellent talent and then thinking you could duplicate it. FOR WHY? It was the #3 ranked D for Christ sakes. Pure idiot move.



Someone needs to take the personnel decisions from Sean and just let him fn coach and nothing else because since he's returned from suspension his wits about him as far as player evaluations have been TRASH.

 

[IceHot]

JUMPING THE GUN in my opinion.

SP has never had less then 7 wins in a season.

Furthermore, if we let him go after this season he will have less wins then Jim Mora.

I think he should be safe as long as he can get us to 6 or 7 wins.

 

[UFCSaint]

I'll admit, during last night's game it was the first time that I thought it might be time for a change. Gotta wonder how this year would've started without all the injuries and without those horrible calls in the first two games that cost the Saints a win. We could very well be sitting at 2-1 or even 3-0 having a completely different discussion right now. But it is what it is.

 

[BoNcHiE]

JUMPING THE GUN in my opinion.

SP has never had less then 7 wins in a season.

Furthermore, if we let him go after this season he will have less wins then Jim Mora.

I think he should be safe as long as he can get us to 6 or 7 wins.

My feelings aren't really based on this year as much as what I envision for the future.

That's why I said I don't really blame Payton for even half of the crap that's gone down this season.

But at some point we have to decide if this is going to get better or if the relationship has grown stale. Not 8-8 better, but return to prominence better. And if the dynamic is no longer there on and off the field, I'd rather move on after this year, let Payton go to somewhere that benefits him more, and start the process. It'll be painful, but I'm tired of spinning our wheels.

 

[DaveXA]

Sure. I have my doubts, too.

I was directly challenging a specific reasoning.

Payton might be closer to some coaches than others, that's normal in life, but I'm going to assume he really believes that the coaches he's retained are competent in their positions (whether or not he should believe that), regardless of what anybody else thinks. Otherwise we have to believe that Payton is perfectly content with losing as long as he has his pals around him.

"His buddies" is one of those throw-away lines borne of frustration.

While I agree with a lot of what you say, I do think Payton has blinders on when it comes to McMahon. The ST unit has woefully underperformed for a while now, and it's not a lack of effort or talent, but a lack of preparation. Both the blocked FG for TD and the botched punt were failures in execution and possibly a lack of communication. There's absolutely nothing special about our ST performance outside Morstead. It's been talked about ad nauseum, but Payton is losing me with his unexplained loyalty to an unproductive coach.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Saints defensive front seven the last four years:

Opposing Yards Per Carry: 32nd, 31st, 28th, 32nd

Sacks: Tied-25th, 4th, 25th, Tied-25th.

2016: OYPC: 5.0, 30th. Sacks: 4. T-21st w/ 7 other teams.

I truly cannot think of any team in the NFL that would allow their front 7 to be this horrendous for this long without changing the position coaches, along with the DC. We've changed the DC. In fact, we've changed DC's 4 times in the time Vitt has been here. 3 times in the time that Johnson has been here. Countless free agents and at least respectable linemen and linebackers from other teams come here and either stagnate or outright fail. They keep changing the DC, keep changing the players, yet the end result doesn't change.

The two constants have got to go. The other variables have been changed regularly, with the same result.

As for injuries... the Saints Secondary is gone. It's not "next man up", it is "who is left?" You can't fault Glenn and Allen for that.

The Defensive Line and Linebackers have had injuries too, but nothing as catastrophic as the Secondary. The DL still has Jordan, Fairley, Kruger, and Edabali. Yet they fail to generate any consistent pass rush or slow the run. The linebackers still have Robertson, Anthony, Lauranitis, yet they're constantly taking bad angles, unable to come off blocks, or get washed out of plays by an offensive lineman at the second level. They are also regularly completely lost in coverage. How do two guys pickup Matt Ryan when he scrambles, and no one bothers to pickup Davonte Freeman? Where's the communication? Who blew their assignment? All the things we crucified Spags and Ryan for, are now happening with Allen.

The defensive line and linebackers for the Saints have had "survivable" injuries to their depth, yet are performing no better than a secondary featuring 2 UDFAs and 2 guys signed off the street at corner.

Also, while we are all going to be haunted for a long time by Byrd's "plays" against the run last night, we need to ask ourselves, why the heck is the safety who lines up 20 yards off the line of scrimmage having to tackle the running back?

Offensively, this team will always be on point with Brees at the helm. But defensively, there is a systemic coaching issue in the front 7 and that has got to change.

 

[slikk]

If he stays then everyone else must go. At some point in time Loomis & Him have to say damn we've only been good on defense maybe 2 out of 10/11 years some changes need to be made. But in the same breath i blame him for that its his way and his guys and no matter how many times things don't work out or how piss poor the defense is he refuses to change anything but the def cond, every 2 years.