Jake Haener (5 Viewers)

[BayouSAINTJoe]

That is what let me know that 2nd and 3rd string O-line might be a problem. We had the advantage in terms of blockers for each one of those sacks. I hope we get to see all 3 behind mostly 1st/2nd string and I'm praying that all of them can stay healthy throughout the season.

I want to say Saldeveri had a 3 play stretch where he gave up a sack, got caught holding...then gave up a pressure

 

[DSnfla]

He also followed up with a joke about how it’s never the QB’s fault. Watch the video for yourself, it’s not hard to see that the throw had no chance. The WR could have possibly tried to break it up, but at the end of the day the DB is getting in front of that throw. Haener takes the dump off and it’s third down with less to go.

All QB’s make mistakes, it’s funny that no one wants to accept that the camp MVP made one here.

The dump off was not there . #35was covered by the LB and was not looking for the ball. Plus the lineman was milliseconds away from sacking JH

 

[DSnfla]

I’m surprised that’s your take. The consensus is he doesn’t have exceptional arm strength, and that’s certainly true. Curry described it as good but not great. Might be some outlier opinions that describe his arm as weak, but that seems like a lazy conclusion that if it’s not notably strong, it must be weak. From what I’ve read, most seem to think it’s average / good enough. I didn’t have concerns watching him today.

Exactly, and I'll take Curry's opinion over most anyone on this board

 

[SaintStephen1]

I think most of y’all need to take your black and gold glasses off when it comes to Haener. Just too small and will have a lot of problems seeing over the lineman. Think back to the inside pressure blitzes teams brought against Brees in his later years which he had a lot of trouble with. If Haener ever sees the field that is going to be the opponents’ strategy. And let me tell you, he’s not Drew Brees.

 

[DSnfla]

I appreciate you sharing the article again. I still hold the same opinions on Haener, maybe even more so than before, after reading the article.

- He mentions arm length as a detriment to ball speed. With an arm length of 29.75”, Haener’s arms are more than an inch shorter than QB’s identified as having the shortest arms in that draft class. His ceiling is set lower by default.
- Haener has a slower release than what people think, he has to wind up his throws. He also has a slower trigger speed than what gets claimed, but I’ll give him a pass on that as he learns the playbook and gets opportunities with better skill players.
- On a slower release/slower ball speed, the author mentions .05 seconds being significant enough to be late. Haener was .31 seconds late at my best estimate on the throw I looked at, he’s going to get picked if he can’t speed up. I mentioned in another post he probably can’t because he needs to step into his throw to drive the ball. Easy to do in 7-on-7, not so easy with the pocket collapsing around you.

Here are two clips I captured that show Carr vs Haener on release for a similar distance throw, Carr let’s it loose on his reset where Haener has to load up, costing him around .12-.15 seconds just on the release. His trigger speed was also very slow on this play, but again I’m not going to beat him up about it just yet.

Edit: had the videos on a different device, here they are:


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The throw JH makes is a good bit longer and much wider than the one DC makes, now I will say that JH's throw was too high and just a bit behind

 

[DSnfla]

He also followed up with a joke about how it’s never the QB’s fault. Watch the video for yourself, it’s not hard to see that the throw had no chance. The WR could have possibly tried to break it up, but at the end of the day the DB is getting in front of that throw. Haener takes the dump off and it’s third down with less to go.

All QB’s make mistakes, it’s funny that no one wants to accept that the camp MVP made one here.

Now I could be wrong but, It may have been Stinch that made the "QB is never wrong " comment playing with DB

 

[Rouxble]

There is a route adjustment. #12 was sidestepping backwards from the snap and continued too. Since he gave a cushion and then still went backwards the route adjustment should have been to cut the route short and drift outside. It was 2nd and about 16 no need to pick up the 1st on that play. Now I'll say that it was not the greatest throw , he had to get it over #31's reach, it could have been lower and to the outside more ( Back-shoulder throw)

That’s a route adjustment for a throw that wasn’t made, and it’s not an adjustment that is made in that concept against that coverage. The back shoulder is also a route adjustment that tends to happen when the DB is running with the WR and taking away the fade route, the DB isn’t looking at the QB and can’t see the back shoulder throw coming. Haener makes a back shoulder throw later in the game against that coverage with success. Edit to add the video of that throw.


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I think I would rather the QB just made a mental mistake than being that wildly inaccurate. It happens, I think Manning doesn’t wake up a day in his life without regret about throwing that pass against Porter’s coverage. Lucky for Haener, it’s just a preseason game (his first one at that).

The dump off was not there . #35was covered by the LB and was not looking for the ball. Plus the lineman was milliseconds away from sacking JH

That pass gets thrown to RB’s all the time against that coverage, it’s not a big gainer but it keeps the drive alive.

The rushing LB was closing, but I think Haener could have gotten outside to hit the RB or someone else later in the scramble drill (or just throw it away). I think he has enough pocket presence to not just stand there and get run over, and he would have seen the rushing LB when moving to his next read (the checkdown).

The throw JH makes is a good bit longer and much wider than the one DC makes, now I will say that JH's throw was too high and just a bit behind

The difference in throw distance is negligible for evaluating their form. If Haener needs to load up like that for a short throw, it’s not good, but he could probably benefit from spending time in the offseason streamlining his throwing motion. I posted this Carr throw in another thread, his feet don’t even need to move for him to sling this fastball at Thomas.


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[Rouxble]

What I saw on this play was a very good throwing motion and very fast release that many QBs would love to have. How you get that he needed to load up is beyond me. He drifted back in the pocket, set his feet, leaned back slightly on his back foot while waiting for the WR to come open, then BAM, it was out in 1 smooth fast motion. There was zero windup or hitch.

I’ve already posted a video of his throwing motion compared to Carr’s, there’s an obvious difference that makes Haener slower and will limit him under pressure.
View attachment RPReplay_Final1692042785.mov

View attachment RPReplay_Final1692042888.mov

 

[bobad]

What I saw on this play was a very good throwing motion and very fast release that many QBs would love to have. How you get that he needed to load up is beyond me. He drifted back in the pocket, set his feet, leaned back slightly on his back foot while waiting for the WR to come open, then BAM, it was out in 1 smooth fast motion. There was zero windup or hitch, very Breese-like.

I’ve already posted a video of his throwing motion compared to Carr’s, there’s an obvious difference that makes Haener slower and will limit him under pressure.

Carr is very Breese-like in his throwing motion, Haener has a better motion and release than most NFL QB's, but not Carr. The ball just jumps out of Haener's hand. That's why he was drafted, that and his smarts and cool under duress.

 

[Rouxble]

Carr is very Breese-like in his throwing motion, Haener has a better motion and release than most NFL QB's, but not Carr. The ball just jumps out of Haener's hand. That's why he was drafted, that and his smarts and cool under duress.

You are seeing what you want to see versus what is actually happening. On practically every throw Haener needs to take that big step forward before beginning his throwing motion, it both slows down his throw and increases the amount of time with his eyes on target, which gives DB’s an early step to break on the ball. It also gives pass rushers a chance to convert what would be a hit into a sack or sack-fumble (or converts a hurry into a hit).

I am intrigued by his smarts (high S2 score) and hope to see more of his poise under pressure at this level. But I think he needs to improve his mechanics and prove he can sling it without that bigger wind up. His off base throws (ex. rolling out and under pressure) did not have the speed you would like to see.

As I said way earlier in this thread, the margin for error is very small in this league.

 

[BELOWSEALEVEL]

We talking bout practice man....not a real game, practice..... practice

 

[meily]

You are seeing what you want to see versus what is actually happening. On practically every throw Haener needs to take that big step forward before beginning his throwing motion, it both slows down his throw and increases the amount of time with his eyes on target, which gives DB’s an early step to break on the ball. It also gives pass rushers a chance to convert what would be a hit into a sack or sack-fumble (or converts a hurry into a hit).

I am intrigued by his smarts (high S2 score) and hope to see more of his poise under pressure at this level. But I think he needs to improve his mechanics and prove he can sling it without that bigger wind up. His off base throws (ex. rolling out and under pressure) did not have the speed you would like to see.

As I said way earlier in this thread, the margin for error is very small in this league.

I do not see this slow release people keep saying Haener has, he can sling it even if his arm is not the strongest and even if Carr has a quicker release it does not mean Haener has a slow one.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Carr is very Breese-like in his throwing motion, Haener has a better motion and release than most NFL QB's, but not Carr. The ball just jumps out of Haener's hand. That's why he was drafted, that and his smarts and cool under duress.

Where else have I heard that Brees like throwing motion reference???????

Oh yeah:

Ian Book reminds me of a young Brees

Looks like he has some of the same mechanics Brees has. His throwing motion even looks eerily similar or maybe I’m losing it.

saintsreport.com

 

[meily]

I think most of y’all need to take your black and gold glasses off when it comes to Haener. Just too small and will have a lot of problems seeing over the lineman. Think back to the inside pressure blitzes teams brought against Brees in his later years which he had a lot of trouble with. If Haener ever sees the field that is going to be the opponents’ strategy. And let me tell you, he’s not Drew Brees.

He's bigger than Bryce Young the #1 overall pick in the draft.

 

[DSnfla]

You are seeing what you want to see versus what is actually happening. On practically every throw Haener needs to take that big step forward before beginning his throwing motion, it both slows down his throw and increases the amount of time with his eyes on target, which gives DB’s an early step to break on the ball. It also gives pass rushers a chance to convert what would be a hit into a sack or sack-fumble (or converts a hurry into a hit).

I am intrigued by his smarts (high S2 score) and hope to see more of his poise under pressure at this level. But I think he needs to improve his mechanics and prove he can sling it without that bigger wind up. His off base throws (ex. rolling out and under pressure) did not have the speed you would like to see.

As I said way earlier in this thread, the margin for error is very small in this league.

I don't have the capability to post clips so I'll just give you when they happen.
4th Qtr 5:36 to go 2nd and 18, ball on our 14. JH throws a 13yrd out to the wide side with zip and does not take a big step up, nor does he make a big wind up.
Again @ 3:22 in the 4th, 1st and 10 on our 24. JH throws a 20yd completion to Davis. Again no big step up or big wind up, just arm strength. Now the pass it a bit high but it kinda had to be , it was thrown
between 3 defenders
Also 2:00 to go 1st and 10 on their 30 Jake throws a lil 10 yrd pass over the middle to Merriweather no step up just a flick of the arm
Plus on the incomplete/ PI in the endzone targeted for Shaq Davis had he not been held down it very well may have been a catch of a well thrown ball