Jeff Duncan: Inside the Saints Culture Issues (2 Viewers)

[EvilMike]

Unfortunately, they will keep doing what they're doing.

 

[Nolan]

Don't even need to read. Loomis and Allen are the only culture issues we have.

 

[redzone762]

Kinda crazy Mickey is running this back.

Jeff Duncan: Inside the Saints' cultural issues. Can Dennis Allen and the Saints right the ship?

The New Orleans Saints have identified some of the issues that led to their disappointing 2023 season. One of them starts in their own building.

www.nola.com

That’s because Dennis Allen is a substitute teacher and how many of us respected substitute teachers when we were in school? Mickey is going to get rid of the dissenters and replace them with yes men to pacify his beta male coach.

 

[DaveXA]

There's no need to estimate or fluff up on this. His precise coaching record is readily knowable:

- 36 games in Oakland, 2.25 seasons @ 16 games. Eight wins. Fired after an 0-4 start. On its face, objectively terrible. Missing simple context (longtime owner died, team dumped a ton of salary) but still not a great head coaching record.
- 34 games in New Orleans, 2 seasons @ 17 games. Sixteen wins, not awe-inspiring but not floor-collapsing bad either. Not significantly worse than the two head coaches who preceded him, although the lack of playoff appearances in an expanded postseason is worrisome. Team is hamstrung with money issues aplenty and has maintained a very uninspiring coordinator on the side of the ball that boosts casual and diehard fan interest and electrifies the arena on gameday. Year three is going to need a spark and the spark will most likely (and conveniently) come from a change in offensive coordinator. Wonder if DA would give a new coordinator $250,000 of his own salary to come aboard. For what it's worth, former defensive coordinator Gary Gibbs was fired a week and a half after the 2008 season ended.

Well, for more context, last year the team went 7-10 in a not very competitive NFC South division. Had some struggles at the QB position and the team never could put it together.

This year, 9-8 with what turned out to be one of the easiest strength of schedule in the league and in a terrible division where no one team ever really stepped up. They came out absolutely flat in a number of pivotal games and Allen made some terrible decisions, particularly in the Packers game where they blew a 17-0 4th quarter lead and lost to the Bucs and Falcons and some really baffling play-calling against the Rams.

They weren't losing because of a lack of talent. They were losing games primarily because of poor situational play-calling and coaching. The late surge was all well and good, but too little too late.

The money issues is simply a distraction from the coaching problem. The team's talent was there. How do you explain coaches keeping Jimmy Graham stashed away for much of the season? Misusing Baun for much of the season. Playing other players out of position including Alonte Taylor.

Next season is going to be a much tougher schedule. I'll be surprised if the Saints win more than 6 games.

The buck starts and stops with Allen.

 

[liveoakh]

The way it really happened: Sean went to visit Yoda (Bill Parcells) and he told him to hire Jeff Ireland to run the draft, and Ireland was heavily credited with the whole 2017 draft. Sean hired DA to run the defense. Theses were all Sean's connections, Lucky Loomis was in the room, but it was all people Sean knew from his days in Dallas and DA was w/ the Saints before. Bill had as much to do with our turn around as lucky Loomis. Why do you think Gruden is such a hot topic lately? Another guy Sean brought around here.

Jeff Duncan: Inside the Saints’ cultural issues. Can Dennis Allen and the Saints right the ship? | Scoop Tour

The New Orleans Saints have identified some of the issues that led to their disappointing 2023 season. One of them starts in their own building.After Saints head coach Dennis Allen held his final team meeting of the season Monday, the entire room was cleared so general manager Mickey Loomis...

scooptour.com

To his credit, Payton accepted responsibility for the fall-off and didn’t make excuses. He didn’t reinvent himself. Instead, he just refocused and recommitted himself to the job.


However, after three consecutive losing seasons, more had to change than just Payton’s attitude. The Saints hired Jeff Ireland to oversee their drafts and placed a renewed emphasis on procuring smart, self-motivated, high-character players. Payton also overhauled the defensive and special teams coaching staff. The result: a historic draft in 2017 and four consecutive double-digit-win seasons from 2017 to 2020.

 

[sfidc3]

Yeah, Loomis didn’t push out Payton. That’s ridiculous.

According to Underhill, Payton has had a foot out the door for years. The Colts job. 1-2 others. He always ultimately came back.

But two years ago he was legit burned out and thought it was time. They didn’t come close to pushing him out. In fact, they offered him the chance to take a sabbatical and come back.

The only thing close to “pushing out,” was that Loomis supposedly made it clear that if he resigned, he couldn’t just come back the next year. They had to move forward if Payton wanted to move on. There were rumblings Payton may have been interested in coming back later. But by that point, Loomis felt he needed to stick by what he told Payton (personally, I would’ve taken him back. But that’s because I’m 44 and lived through Ditka, Haslett, etc).

Anyway, the idea that he was pushed out is beyond absurd.

You don't know, so don't pretend like you do.....it's not an absurd or ridiculous notion, it very well could have happened.....

CSP has been leaving to coach the Cowboys since 2010, just ask Peter King, or apparently, Underhill.....except he didn't and he stayed with the Saints for 16 total years.....total BS

Also, if I'm not mistaken (apologies if I am), this poster rlemieux your responding to has Andrus's trust to some degree.....

 

[Saint Spud]

You don't know, so don't pretend like you do.....it's not an absurd or ridiculous notion, it very well could have happened.....

CSP has been leaving to coach the Cowboys since 2010, just ask Peter King, or apparently, Underhill.....except he didn't and he stayed with the Saints for 16 total years.....total BS

Also, if I'm not mistaken (apologies if I am), this poster rlemieux your responding to has Andrus's trust to some degree.....

It’s absolutely absurd to think we would push out the best coach we’ve ever had. That did not happen. He was even offered a chance to step away for a year and come back.

 

[DaveXA]

You don't know, so don't pretend like you do.....it's not an absurd or ridiculous notion, it very well could have happened.....

CSP has been leaving to coach the Cowboys since 2010, just ask Peter King, or apparently, Underhill.....except he didn't and he stayed with the Saints for 16 total years.....total BS

Also, if I'm not mistaken (apologies if I am), this poster rlemieux your responding to has Andrus's trust to some degree.....

I'm not gonna say he wasn't pushed out, but outside of SR, I've seen zero reports of this. So without some sort of multiple verified sourcing, I'm considering that a rumor.

And he's a fine poster and probably credible, that's just still a story to me.

Why wasn't he ever pushed out when he had those 7-9 seasons? He wouldn't have been wrong had he done so, but no, it didn't happen until 2 years ago when Payton decided to "retire".

 

[sfidc3]

It’s absolutely absurd to think we would push out the best coach we’ve ever had. That did not happen. He was even offered a chance to step away for a year and come back.

I agree about the absurd part but absurd things happen.....

Jerry Jones fired Jimmy Johnson, effectively ending what might have been a long reign of Cowboys dominance (I'm so glad he did though!!!).....

Just one example, there are more.....My guess (and it's just a guess) is that Loomis (for whatever reason) had more pull with Gayle Benson (or Luascha or whomever is making decisions) than CSP had....no proof, no evidence (yet).....but that is what I suspect....

 

[sfidc3]

I'm not gonna say he wasn't pushed out, but outside of SR, I've seen zero reports of this. So without some sort of multiple verified sourcing, I'm considering that a rumor.

And he's a fine poster and probably credible, that's just still a story to me.

Why wasn't he ever pushed out when he had those 7-9 seasons? He wouldn't have been wrong had he done so, but no, it didn't happen until 2 years ago when Payton decided to "retire".

Of course it is just a story, a possibility, I don't disagree.....but don't conflate the timing of it as something illogical.....During those 7-9 seasons Tom Benson was still alive, 2 years ago he wasn't, I think that is a factor in what went down....others are free to disagree....

 

[Elvis]

Of course it is just a story, a possibility, I don't disagree.....but don't conflate the timing of it as something illogical.....During those 7-9 seasons Tom Benson was still alive, 2 years ago he wasn't, I think that is a factor in what went down....others are free to disagree....

Mr. Benson is very much missed. I think we may have underestimated his value to the culture of winning we had.

 

[Saint Spud]

I agree about the absurd part but absurd things happen.....

Jerry Jones fired Jimmy Johnson, effectively ending what might have been a long reign of Cowboys dominance (I'm so glad he did though!!!).....

Just one example, there are more.....My guess (and it's just a guess) is that Loomis (for whatever reason) had more pull with Gayle Benson (or Luascha or whomever is making decisions) than CSP had....no proof, no evidence (yet).....but that is what I suspect....

Loomis and Payton are best friends. Jones and JJ couldn’t stand each other.

It’s been widely reported (and I’m pretty sure confirmed by both men) what actually happened. This is not rumor or guessing.

 

[sfidc3]

Loomis and Payton are best friends. Jones and JJ couldn’t stand each other.

It’s been widely reported (and I’m pretty sure confirmed by both men) what actually happened. This is not rumor or guessing.

Lots of things are "widely reported", it doesn't make them true.....it was "widely reported" for years that CSP would be leaving next year to go to "fill in the blank team".......just one example.....

Nobody really knows what happened behind closed doors and I think there is some evidence to suggest there was a power struggle of sorts....

"best" friends? Right....not rumor or guessing...

 

[Saint Spud]

Lots of things are "widely reported", it doesn't make them true.....it was "widely reported" for years that CSP would be leaving next year to go to "fill in the blank team".......just one example.....

Nobody really knows what happened behind closed doors and I think there is some evidence to suggest there was a power struggle of sorts....

"best" friends? Right....not rumor or guessing...

Edit: nvm. Moving on.

 

[sfidc3]

Yes. Like directly from them.

Look, if you want to believe a message board poster who consistently posts “I know something you don’t know” type stuff over the actual people involved, then go for it.

At this point, I'm not saying I definitely believe anything.....and that's been my point all along....I suspect....is not I believe.....