Let's talk salary cap (1 Viewer)

[St. Widge]

I think you take whatever lumps you can in 2025 and 2026, even if it means you are starting undrafted free agents at some positions. If we were to outright cut Carr, it's $50M dead this year, but that's it, he's done, off the books. If he's post June 1, $30M of dead money is deferred onto next year's cap (according to overthecap.com). There are other moves to get us under the cap. Cutting Carr opens up a roster spot and we roll with Haener/Rattler/???. You know it's going to be challenging and lots of losses in 24 & 25. But we've had lots of losses/mediocrity the past 4 seasons anyway. There's no magic to make us contenders anyway the next 2 years, so blow it up in whatever way makes it mathematically possible to dump as many bad contracts as quickly as possible, without worrying about the win/loss record over the next two years.

I don't know that we can get under the cap without restructuring Carr this year. But Elvis or Rouxble would know better. But, I think you keep Carr for one more year and hope to draft a franchise QB or develop Rattler next year. Then you release him next year when you hope to have either Rattler or the rookie you draft this year ready to go. Carr isn't great but he's also not really the issue and, if one of the young QBs win the job, then you have a good backup QB and move on next year.

 

[Waymer]

I talked about this in another thread, but it's not that unrealistic to meet the cap. But you have to understand what that comes with. There's definitely a two year window that will have to occur due to a few Post June 1 moves or restructures. 2027 would be your "fresh start." That's obviously assume the team doesn't just kick the can. It can work, but if you aren't going to field a competitive team the question is why. (Let's remember though that a new coach may want assurances on doing just that, so don't rule out the Saints kicking the can some more, at least part ways.)

Full disclosure, some of this depends on this week's trade deadline and what they do with Lattimore, etc. For now let's just assume "nothing" is done this week. If so, we can re-evaluate.

And these are by no means meant to be suggestions, just examples of options (and of course cut = trade as well if anyone would take a player). Also keep in mind the limitations on June 1 cuts (2 designations).

• Cut Carr as Post 6/1. $30M savings.
• Cut Lattimore as Post 6/1. $18M savings.
• Cut Jordan as Post 6/1. $11M savings.
• Cut Ramczyk. $6M savings.
• Cut J. Williams. $1.5M savings.
• Cut F. Moreau. $2.5M savings.
• Cut C. Wilson. $2.4M savings.
• Cut K Saunders. $2.6M savings.
• Cut J.T. Gray. $2.1M savings.
• Other misc. savings: Shepherd (750K), K. Miller (1M), Z. Wood (1M), Saldiviri (1M), D. Jackson (1M), Howden (1M), Rigeway (1M)
• And basically any of the young guys that made the team are 1M also (Holker, Payton, Ford, Rattler, Hayball, etc). But of course keep in mind cutting them doens't do much good because those are parts you have to replace. So if you're cutting most of these 1M guys, it's because the new staff just doesn't see them as part of the team.

You can also look to someone like Jordan who may know his time is done, and get him to restructure with void years, etc, in a similar way that Ramcyzk did. It will push some money, but also be a way to realize savings that are spread over time if you will.

And of course some of this depends on what the cap does end up looking like next year. Is there a slight spike? Less than expected? Each way will matter.

2026 isn't necessarily pretty either. Not a great slate of candidates (as it stands) to save on even if you made the above. Basically leaves Granderson ($7M) and then you start to get into the guys with a few millions (Kamara, McCoy, Ruiz). That doesn't count a free agent class of Taylor, possibly Olave, Penning, Grupe, etc depending on how the team values them.

 

[SaintKenKen]

I wish "Retirement restructure" was a thing and we could give Cam, Davis and Honey Badger enough to walk away and spread the (low) cap hits over a long time. Unfortunately, that's not a thing so we'll need to coach up the talent we have while hitting on a few things in the draft to stay competitive in the next 2 years.

 

[St. Widge]

I talked about this in another thread, but it's not that unrealistic to meet the cap. But you have to understand what that comes with. There's definitely a two year window that will have to occur due to a few Post June 1 moves or restructures. 2027 would be your "fresh start." That's obviously assume the team doesn't just kick the can. It can work, but if you aren't going to field a competitive team the question is why. (Let's remember though that a new coach may want assurances on doing just that, so don't rule out the Saints kicking the can some more, at least part ways.)

Full disclosure, some of this depends on this week's trade deadline and what they do with Lattimore, etc. For now let's just assume "nothing" is done this week. If so, we can re-evaluate.

And these are by no means meant to be suggestions, just examples of options (and of course cut = trade as well if anyone would take a player). Also keep in mind the limitations on June 1 cuts (2 designations).

• Cut Carr as Post 6/1. $30M savings.
• Cut Lattimore as Post 6/1. $18M savings.
• Cut Jordan as Post 6/1. $11M savings.
• Cut Ramczyk. $6M savings.
• Cut J. Williams. $1.5M savings.
• Cut F. Moreau. $2.5M savings.
• Cut C. Wilson. $2.4M savings.
• Cut K Saunders. $2.6M savings.
• Cut J.T. Gray. $2.1M savings.
• Other misc. savings: Shepherd (750K), K. Miller (1M), Z. Wood (1M), Saldiviri (1M), D. Jackson (1M), Howden (1M), Rigeway (1M)
• And basically any of the young guys that made the team are 1M also (Holker, Payton, Ford, Rattler, Hayball, etc). But of course keep in mind cutting them doens't do much good because those are parts you have to replace. So if you're cutting most of these 1M guys, it's because the new staff just doesn't see them as part of the team.

You can also look to someone like Jordan who may know his time is done, and get him to restructure with void years, etc, in a similar way that Ramcyzk did. It will push some money, but also be a way to realize savings that are spread over time if you will.

And of course some of this depends on what the cap does end up looking like next year. Is there a slight spike? Less than expected? Each way will matter.

2026 isn't necessarily pretty either. Not a great slate of candidates (as it stands) to save on even if you made the above. Basically leaves Granderson ($7M) and then you start to get into the guys with a few millions (Kamara, McCoy, Ruiz). That doesn't count a free agent class of Taylor, possibly Olave, Penning, Grupe, etc depending on how the team values them.

I don't have any issue with cutting or trading any of those guys but you have to replace all those $1M guys ( and the higher priced guys for that matter) so I don't know that you get much of a net benefit with those cuts and I'm not sure you can get under the cap next year with those moves. Also, you have 3 post 6/1 cuts in there.

But I'm no cap expert. Maybe you are right or someone else knows better.

 

[kcirdor]

I wish "Retirement restructure" was a thing and we could give Cam, Davis and Honey Badger enough to walk away and spread the (low) cap hits over a long time. Unfortunately, that's not a thing so we'll need to coach up the talent we have while hitting on a few things in the draft to stay competitive in the next 2 years.

So you want a loop hole for our loop hole?

 

[rlemieux]

I think you take whatever lumps you can in 2025 and 2026, even if it means you are starting undrafted free agents at some positions. If we were to outright cut Carr, it's $50M dead this year, but that's it, he's done, off the books. If he's post June 1, $30M of dead money is deferred onto next year's cap (according to overthecap.com). There are other moves to get us under the cap. Cutting Carr opens up a roster spot and we roll with Haener/Rattler/???. You know it's going to be challenging and lots of losses in 24 & 25. But we've had lots of losses/mediocrity the past 4 seasons anyway. There's no magic to make us contenders anyway the next 2 years, so blow it up in whatever way makes it mathematically possible to dump as many bad contracts as quickly as possible, without worrying about the win/loss record over the next two years.

Problem with outright cutting Carr, yes it's 50 million right off the bat (Tampa did this with Brady but was prepared for it). We are already 70 million over the cap, we'd need to clear that 70 million plus Carr's 50 million just to be even. That's almost impossible to do, especially with the amount of dead cap and money owed to other players that we have.

 

[Hank]

Most of us are fine with it taking 2-3 years. As long as we have a plan.

Most of us are fine with it taking 2-3 years. As long as we have a plan.

I don't mind losing with young, cheap, up and coming players reaching their potential in 3-5 years. I have a problem losing with old, expensive, non-productive, hurt players that offer no hope or direction for the future.

 

[Pensacola]

How did the Rams fix their CAP mess. They were in a hot mess too not long ago and now, last I heard, are in great shape. Without doing the research two things that seem obvious is they have a solid head coach and have drafted well. Guess what I’m getting at is, the CAP can get fixed rather quickly if Loomis would just wise up! Use his brain and not his foot to keep kicking the can …

 

[Hedon James]

I talked about this in another thread, but it's not that unrealistic to meet the cap. But you have to understand what that comes with. There's definitely a two year window that will have to occur due to a few Post June 1 moves or restructures. 2027 would be your "fresh start." That's obviously assume the team doesn't just kick the can. It can work, but if you aren't going to field a competitive team the question is why. (Let's remember though that a new coach may want assurances on doing just that, so don't rule out the Saints kicking the can some more, at least part ways.)

Full disclosure, some of this depends on this week's trade deadline and what they do with Lattimore, etc. For now let's just assume "nothing" is done this week. If so, we can re-evaluate.

And these are by no means meant to be suggestions, just examples of options (and of course cut = trade as well if anyone would take a player). Also keep in mind the limitations on June 1 cuts (2 designations).

• Cut Carr as Post 6/1. $30M savings.
• Cut Lattimore as Post 6/1. $18M savings.
• Cut Jordan as Post 6/1. $11M savings.
• Cut Ramczyk. $6M savings.
• Cut J. Williams. $1.5M savings.
• Cut F. Moreau. $2.5M savings.
• Cut C. Wilson. $2.4M savings.
• Cut K Saunders. $2.6M savings.
• Cut J.T. Gray. $2.1M savings.
• Other misc. savings: Shepherd (750K), K. Miller (1M), Z. Wood (1M), Saldiviri (1M), D. Jackson (1M), Howden (1M), Rigeway (1M)
• And basically any of the young guys that made the team are 1M also (Holker, Payton, Ford, Rattler, Hayball, etc). But of course keep in mind cutting them doens't do much good because those are parts you have to replace. So if you're cutting most of these 1M guys, it's because the new staff just doesn't see them as part of the team.

You can also look to someone like Jordan who may know his time is done, and get him to restructure with void years, etc, in a similar way that Ramcyzk did. It will push some money, but also be a way to realize savings that are spread over time if you will.

And of course some of this depends on what the cap does end up looking like next year. Is there a slight spike? Less than expected? Each way will matter.

2026 isn't necessarily pretty either. Not a great slate of candidates (as it stands) to save on even if you made the above. Basically leaves Granderson ($7M) and then you start to get into the guys with a few millions (Kamara, McCoy, Ruiz). That doesn't count a free agent class of Taylor, possibly Olave, Penning, Grupe, etc depending on how the team values them.

I've been wondering about this myself. If the Broncos can just release Wilson outright, and eat $85M(?) of cap, how did they do that? Why can't we? They got Nix on a rookie deal, but we've got Haener and Rattler on rookie deals (I'm not comparing talent, I'm comparing salaries by position group).

I'm not a fan of the "slow pull" for a band-aid....I prefer to RIP IT off quickly. Could we take our medicine in 2025, KNOWING it's gonna hurt, but also knowing it's over with? If we can't, why not? If we can, HOW? What would that look like?

Assuming we can, and do, I wouldn't be opposed to hiring a new HC to a +1 year contract (if normally 3, give him 4; if normally 4, give him 5), with the understanding that year 1 is a "throwaway". That coach would be aware that year 1 is all about TALENT DEVELOPMENT....whether guys already on roster, or draft picks, or UDFA. For the 1st year, he's gonna have to focus on developing the talent of players on hand, or easily obtainable, in order to establish a "base" or "core", while they're assessing the "holes" in the roster. Year 2 is the "official" beginning of his HC tenure....give him a 17-game "pre-season" for roster development and decisions. The guy who is interested in that position and that proposition MUST be good at teaching, development, and evaluation, and is likely very confident in those abilities (things that made CSP successful). That's my ideal scenario, but don't know if that scenario is even POSSIBLE. Hoping some of our resident cap experts can chime in on those thoughts.

As for coaches, I've already got a short-list of guys I hope the Saints will at least look into:

• I like Rizzi as Interim Coach. He's fielded good ST and seems to be an intellectual/innovator who is capable of "outside the box" thought processes. could be great, could be fools gold. interested to see what he does, or doesn't do, for the rest of the season and how the team responds to him.
• I'd prefer an OFFENSIVE coach, so we don't have to worry about losing a GOOD OC to a HC position. I'm not sure Kubiak is ready yet, and he certainly hasn't demonstrated it yet with the Saints, but my mind is open to the consideration.
• Of course, everyone has Johnson (Detroit) and Slowik (Houston) on their "hot list" of OC to consider. Me too, but I think they'll have better opportunities to pick from, depending on what their criteria is. If a guy wants the opportunity to take a moribund franchise and turn it into an NFL powerhouse, and have his name etched in history as a HOF HC, maybe New Orleans is the place? I'm talking Walsh/9ers; Johnson/Cowboys; Landry/Cowboys; Shula/Dolphins; Reid/Eagles/Chiefs; Bill Parcells type of generational coaches. Do you want to be the NEXT great HC for the Cowboys, 9ers, Packers, etc....or do you want to be the ONLY guy for New Orleans? (that diminishes CSP somewhat, but I'm trying to paint a picture here)
• He's not an offensive coach, but Aaron Glenn is interesting to me, and he's a known quantity to the Saints org. he's taken a couple of the Saints players and coaches that we cut loose and made them one of the better defenses in the league. Please at least TALK to him?!
• I'd be even more interested in his ^ boss...Dan Campbell. Don't know what his contract looks like, or whether he could even be pried from Detroit, but I'd be asking. I'd considering trading picks for the RIGHT coach. IMO, he's done MORE in Detroit with LESS than we have here. He checks my boxes....
• Maybe the Broncos are over the CSP honeymoon? If we ditch Loomis (please let it happen!), I'd be asking about trading for CSP again. I think that train has left the station, never to return, but I'd turn that rock over and take a look. There's more to the CSP story than we're being told, and I suspect ML is part of that story. I can SMELL it. Maybe CSP comes back if ML is gone?

That's my QUICK and SHORT list. Who else you got? Who else you want Saints management to consider, or at least interview?

 

[SaintRob]

Problem with outright cutting Carr, yes it's 50 million right off the bat (Tampa did this with Brady but was prepared for it). We are already 70 million over the cap, we'd need to clear that 70 million plus Carr's 50 million just to be even. That's almost impossible to do, especially with the amount of dead cap and money owed to other players that we have.

You might be right, but I think that's already dead money that's accounted for in the '25 cap. It's why if he's a post 6/1 cut, $30M of that goes onto '26's cap and opens up $30M in '25.

 

[SaintKenKen]

So you want a loop hole for our loop hole?

Kinda. I mean, part of me wants to make sure that we take care of our guys (within reason) towards the end of their careers. The idea that we toss someone out like trash after having a career here doesn't sit right.

Neither does paying a ton of money over the next year or two and killing our Salary Cap.

I wish there was a 3rd option to pay out contracts for players that choose retirement over the next 3 to 5 years at some slightly reduced rate. They still get get paid and it wouldn't absolutely tank a teams salary cap .

It won't happen but I wish that's the way it worked for retiring players.

 

[St. Geezy]

Seems relevant to this thread...

 

[SweetT]

Yep. We have enough talent to be a 9 or 10 win team but coaching was holding them back. Some of that talent is likely gone next year in Lattimore and Adebo but this is not a 2-7 talent team. Injuries hurt, but a good head coach wins one of the Philly and Atlanta games along with stealing one of the other five games after that. And a good head coach does not lose to Carolina. This team should be at worst 5-7 and poised to make a run even with the injuries.

We do need to draft better in the next few years and get true impact players, but the cap can be fixed in 2-3 years which gives time for a new coach to build his roster through the draft and find a franchise QB.

BINGO.

 

[Waymer]

I don't have any issue with cutting or trading any of those guys but you have to replace all those $1M guys ( and the higher priced guys for that matter) so I don't know that you get much of a net benefit with those cuts and I'm not sure you can get under the cap next year with those moves. Also, you have 3 post 6/1 cuts in there.

But I'm no cap expert. Maybe you are right or someone else knows better.

Correct. Hence my comment in the bullet about it not doing much good because you have to replace those guys.

And my list wasn't intended to be a strategy, just options. It's why I included more than two 6/1 cuts.

You can certainly get there "easily" if you wanted though. Designate Carr and Lattimore as post 6/1 cuts plus Ramcyzk and you are within about 7 million with just three moves.

Not saying that is the best for the team overall. But that's a quick two year compliance method if you will. I'd high doubt this organization would go that direct though.

 

[dvdman]

I may be in the minority about the talent on this team. We still have very good players, with good young talent. Coaching could do wonders for some of them. So, I’m not worried about getting an all time great draft.
As for as the cap, we will find a way to make some sense of it. I’m not worried

I agree with your post, we have talent, the problem is keeping them healthy. You also have to take into account the annual cap increases.