Let's talk salary cap (1 Viewer)

[B4YOU]

Restructure Derek Carr, Cam Jordan retires, Ryan Ramcyzk retires…you are now cap compliant.

Next, restructure guys you plan to have here anyway, strictly as needed…

Eric McCoy 6.7m saved
Carl Granderson 5.7m saved
Ceasar Ruiz 6.4m saved
Pete Werner 2.5m saved
Rasheed Shaheed 2.1m saved
Tyrann Mathieu 4.5m saved
Demario Davis 5.5m saved


That’s now $33.4m in cap space available to sign who we want…and this is without cutting anyone, no June 1st designations, no trading anyone, and several more possible restructures available. Just flat out building on what we have already.

The salary cap is just a 5-year accounting log that extends year after year endlessly and also allows you to be over the cap in future seasons in perpetuity; it is not a hard cap. Stop freaking out just because our log/ledger CURRENTLY shows a certain number. That number has just not been managed yet; the team has just not revealed to the league/turned in the paperwork yet.

People using this past off-season and roster condition as a direct product of the cap situation are not looking at this correctly.

Our roster is “bad” (arguable in itself) because we aren’t drafting well, may have signed a couple of regrets, have an abnormal number of key injuries, and poor coaching/development, not the accounting work.

We should do everything possible to not restructure Carr. The plan must be to move on after 2025. His performance vs Carolina was terrible.

 

[BreesusSaves]

We should do everything possible to not restructure Carr. The plan must be to move on after 2025. His performance vs Carolina was terrible.

I believe trading Lattimore moves the Saints to $91m over the cap next season. Carr's absolutely getting restructured.

 

[St. Geezy]

We should do everything possible to not restructure Carr. The plan must be to move on after 2025. His performance vs Carolina was terrible.

We may not have a choice.

Similar to what I said before, this is OUR version of what happens when you sign a player to a mega deal and you end up stuck with a regret.

Other teams with a more traditional accounting structure face the same issue, and get stuck with the player because they don’t want to take the large accelerated cap hit just the same.

They initially have a contract with more balanced year to year numbers as opposed to us and our style, but instead are binded by facing a large cap hit that would hurt their “healthy cap” that they don’t like to play future structure games with just the same.

Denver’s willingness to destroy their cap to cut Russell Wilson was a unicorn event that rarely happens. You sign a guy to a mega long term deal, you almost have to live with it for at least a good three seasons, whether you do it our way or the traditional way.

 

[Goatman Saint]

I’m not sharing the gloom and doom. Lattimore is essentially a push. His cap hit being traded isn’t much different than his salary. Ram will renegotiate and drop his salary to minimum and then retire, much like Brees did are will have to be renegotiated, but in 26we are at like 52million below. That will lower as I doubt Cam returns next year which would save not only 11milliom that year, but addional in 26. So the future looks good. We are definitely on the back side of the hump. The hardest part is simply drafting well.

 

[B4YOU]

I believe trading Lattimore moves the Saints to $91m over the cap next season. Carr's absolutely getting restructured.

@St. Geezy also,

We are 77M over per Spotrac and 61M over per OTC. I think the OTC number is closer with Spotrac counting a 13M 5th yr option for Turner.

I suspect there will be a partial restructuring of Carr but not a full 31M salary dump. You can’t saddle a new coach with a QB for two years.

Restructure Ram 18M, Jordan 9M, Hill 6M, Davis 6M, McCoy 7M, and HB 4M is 50M. Granderson and Ruiz restructures saves 11M. Juwan extension saves 4M. That’s +4M in cap. We can push 10M of Carr’s money to the future for added FA space. That makes Carr’s 2026 dead cap 38M but better than paying him 50M to play.

 

[St. Geezy]

I believe trading Lattimore moves the Saints to $91m over the cap next season. Carr's absolutely getting restructured.

This is a misconception. It’s a push. It was only like a -$400k cap impact, so we remain $61m over.

The loss has occurred only in the sense that we no longer have a star player filling that $31m line item on the ledger.

 

[St. Geezy]

I know we all understand how good the 2017 draft was and it would be hard to duplicate, but man it really just illustrates how important drafting is. You have a legitimate chance to add multiple stars to your lineup over the course of one single weekend.

Even if we were able to get this same number of Pro Bowl types over the following 3 of 4 seasons combined, our roster would be viewed so much differently today.

It’s the draft, folks…we need to start nailing drafts again. This is what we are missing. We should have at least 4 or 5 more absolute ballers in our lineup right now if we had been better at this over the last several years.

 

[BreesusSaves]

This is a misconception. It’s a push. It was only like a -$400k cap impact, so we remain $61m over.

The loss has occurred only in the sense that we no longer have a star player filling that $31m line item on the ledger.

Ah yeah you're right, I forgot to account for his contract "as-is" for next season.

 

[baarbogast]

I would anticipate the Saints getting creative with their roster decisions. Up first is what to do with Derek Carr. The Saints signed Carr to a $37.5 million per year contract in 2023 and his cap number next year is $51.5 million. The problem is the cost to cut him is $50 million so there is nothing saved by cutting him outright. The Saints also owe him $10 million in guaranteed salary. I can not see the benefit of doubling down on Carr next year. It hasn’t worked at all and he likely will be out of the NFL if released. They could try to bring his salary way down to something like $20 million, freeing up $20 million in the process and then however much more by converting that $20 million into a bonus, but what purpose is there for Carr to be a Saint in 2025?

The Saints should work with Carr on renegotiating his contract in 2024 so that they can designate him a post June 1 release in 2025. How does that work? The team would pay Carr his $10 million guarantee as a bonus in 2024, increasing his 2024 cap charge by $2 million (the team has just enough space to pull this off), and in return he would agree to reduce his salary from $30 million in 2025 to $1.255 million. This would drop Carr’s 2025 salary cap figure from $51.5 million to $14.7 million. Taking into account the loss of $2 million in 2024 carryover, the team’s net cap position would improve by about $34.8 million. Carr would then be designated a post June 1 cut and count for $13.5 million against the salary cap in 2025 once the release is processed. His dead money in 2026 would be $34.7 million.

Looking at the Saints Salary Cap Situation | Over the Cap

Looking at the Saints Salary Cap Situation | Over the Cap

overthecap.com

 

[Rouxble]

I would anticipate the Saints getting creative with their roster decisions. Up first is what to do with Derek Carr. The Saints signed Carr to a $37.5 million per year contract in 2023 and his cap number next year is $51.5 million. The problem is the cost to cut him is $50 million so there is nothing saved by cutting him outright. The Saints also owe him $10 million in guaranteed salary. I can not see the benefit of doubling down on Carr next year. It hasn’t worked at all and he likely will be out of the NFL if released. They could try to bring his salary way down to something like $20 million, freeing up $20 million in the process and then however much more by converting that $20 million into a bonus, but what purpose is there for Carr to be a Saint in 2025?

The Saints should work with Carr on renegotiating his contract in 2024 so that they can designate him a post June 1 release in 2025. How does that work? The team would pay Carr his $10 million guarantee as a bonus in 2024, increasing his 2024 cap charge by $2 million (the team has just enough space to pull this off), and in return he would agree to reduce his salary from $30 million in 2025 to $1.255 million. This would drop Carr’s 2025 salary cap figure from $51.5 million to $14.7 million. Taking into account the loss of $2 million in 2024 carryover, the team’s net cap position would improve by about $34.8 million. Carr would then be designated a post June 1 cut and count for $13.5 million against the salary cap in 2025 once the release is processed. His dead money in 2026 would be $34.7 million.

Looking at the Saints Salary Cap Situation | Over the Cap

Looking at the Saints Salary Cap Situation | Over the Cap

overthecap.com

That's an interesting suggestion on the $10m fully guaranteed bonus he is due in 2025, but I have a hard time imagining Carr being willing to renegotiate his $30m salary in 2025 since it is guaranteed for injury. That $30m salary also becomes fully guaranteed on the third day of the 2025 league year. Couple that with a no trade clause, and Carr seems to have all the leverage.

Carr didn't budge when the Raiders asked him to adjust his contract to remove injury guarantees, I wouldn't expect him to treat us much differently.

 

[solarbear88]

I doubt very much they will get rid of Carr. He has already renegotiated and extended. They will have to do this again, stretch the 3 years they owe him over 5. I really hate this way of doing business.

Perhaps a team like the Jets might trade for him, the Saints sending a high pick to them to get rid of the contract.

Otherwise, he will be on our books for about the next 5 years and probably play 2 or 3 of them.

 

[Benleo77]

Most of us are fine with it taking 2-3 years. As long as we have a plan.

Speak for yourself! I ain’t fine with 2-3 years of unexciting football! I want to at least have a chance to win this very winnable division year in and out! It’s very possible! We don’t have to be losers to win again!

 

[Clintonrebel]

I hate it, but you can restructure Carr and almost take care of the entire 2025 cap issue. Go ahead and take your medicine on all the other old guys.

 

[EvilMike]

Good old "Down the Line Loomis" dug us a deep hole to field a 3-7 team

 

[St. Geezy]

Good old "Down the Line Loomis" dug us a deep hole to field a 3-7 team

Ah yes, the injuries, poor drafting, and poor coaching aren't the culprits...it's that doggone complicated financial ledger that looks different than I am used to seeing's fault.