Let's talk salary cap (1 Viewer)

[lilvipa221]

Were we terrible before the injuries? You’re talking as if you and he knew we’d be a 3-7 team at this juncture. Hindsight is always 20/20.

“Financial stupidity” is harsh.

Yep, we were 2-3 before the injuries became something that we shouldn't be able to overcome.

 

[Rouxble]

There we go again…using the team’s intentional decision to roll things back against them. You ignore that conveniently when saying we are 25th in spending.

No one has claimed we have found some hidden strategy. My claim is actually the opposite…it doesn’t matter (at least not to the doom and gloom degree most people here make it out to be). We aren’t doing some egregious thing; we just manage our books differently with different looking consequences that mirror everyone else’s end result when you don’t pick the right people.

And again, we aren’t the only team losing free agents; everyone does, including teams that have $50m-plus of cap space every offseason.

Cap space isn’t some magic pill to end all ails. Some of the worst teams in the league have the most cap space annually.

Too many people are confusing “Flat out poor or regrettable personnel decisions” with cap restrictions.

I’m not ignoring it, I posted how much space this year we could clear if we wanted to do so, and it isn’t much. We cut back as much as we could, but it’s not like we left a lot of capacity to make any big moves.

And yes, other teams lose free agents, but I’m not talking about guys leaving for mega deals. We can’t help losing a guy like Marcus Williams because he was going to get top dollar for his position. We are letting guys leave for mid deals and replacing them with cheaper players under the guise of “getting better value”.

We are way down the list of total AAV committed to our team, but have the least space available. That should at least hint that the space is restricting us in some way.

 

[St. Geezy]

Yep, we were 2-3 before the injuries became something that we shouldn't be able to overcome.

You and I have different definitions of when “injuries became something.”

And I hardly call two last second losses to two current first place teams and a third loss to the undefeated SB Champs something to criticize as harshly as you seem to be, as if that makes us a “terrible” team.

 

[St. Geezy]

I’m not ignoring it, I posted how much space this year we could clear if we wanted to do so, and it isn’t much. We cut back as much as we could, but it’s not like we left a lot of capacity to make any big moves.

And yes, other teams lose free agents, but I’m not talking about guys leaving for mega deals. We can’t help losing a guy like Marcus Williams because he was going to get top dollar for his position. We are letting guys leave for mid deals and replacing them with cheaper players under the guise of “getting better value”.

We are way down the list of total AAV committed to our team, but have the least space available. That should at least hint that the space is restricting us in some way.

I disagree. We are down the list in AAV because we have elected not to spend. We can't keep using that data point as a basis for the system not working when the team itself has said it is being intentional in not spending because they want to reign it in some, presumably because they're realizing the window isn't as open at the moment. We needed a soft reset.

Can you provide me examples of mid contract players we clearly wanted to keep, we didn't because we got outbid, and who we replaced them with? And please don't use guys like Anzalone or Baun (I.E. guys that got better once they left here and are now viewed as regrets by some). I don't even think it is fair to use a guy like Ellis, who left here to get a starting position when there was no chance of him starting here over Davis/Werner.

Trying to see something.

 

[HouseCall]

As Loomis said, this is way overblown. All we are doing is using future dollars instead of present dollars on a continuous clip. The

Ah yes, the person being criticized (Loomis) says our criticism is overblown - noted.

Hendrickson/Williams fiasco was a direct result of COVID. I will admit, we got caught with our pants down there and it was not a foreseen circumstance.

This is the exact reason why it’s not a great system - there is an uncontrollable and unpredictable element that is relied upon by Loomis. That element is that the cap will always grow and why? Because it always has - that is, until it doesn’t.

When that happens, as rare or unprecedented as the reason may be, and it causes your entire cap management system to go upside down - that system isn’t reliable.

As for depth, I do agree that some of the issues have been poor drafting - but it doesn’t help roster management when you have to do massive restructures every offseason just to get under that cap and pass dead money down year after year for players who are past their primes and sometimes not even still on the team.

It doesn’t leave a lot of meat on the bone for quality situational and depth signings to make up for draft misses.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

I honestly am so tired of Carr. Next season I wish the coach would bench Carr and just role with Haener. I really don't think he would be much worse at all, and have more upside. Even if he's only a bit worse (imo worst case scenario), it would show whether we need to invest in a QB in 2026 or if we can roll with him at the helm.

Carr just isn't it. At all. I understand he has some good stats, but watching him in real time is nothing short of cringey. It almost seems like his teammates have to elevate his play which is the exact opposite of what you want at QB.

 

[solarbear88]

I honestly am so tired of Carr. Next season I wish the coach would bench Carr and just role with Haener. I really don't think he would be much worse at all, and have more upside. Even if he's only a bit worse (imo worst case scenario), it would show whether we need to invest in a QB in 2026 or if we can roll with him at the helm.

Carr just isn't it. At all. I understand he has some good stats, but watching him in real time is nothing short of cringey. It almost seems like his teammates have to elevate his play which is the exact opposite of what you want at QB.

I know this feeling. I don't care too much if he is the QB next year, I am kind of indifferent. But I hope they don't keep extending him. By 2026 or 2027 I'd like to actually have someone young at the helm, someone you could actually see winning in the play offs eventually.

 

[DSnfla]

The Loomis/Hartley cap strategy was designed to keep a competitive roster together under Drew Brees - when year to year we were only a player or two away from staying competitive and contending.

The problem is that the Saints are seeing the negative side effects of that strategy with the lack of quality depth to fill spots.

Look at the number of quality depth we let walk in free agency - not because we didn’t want them but because we couldn’t afford them because of money tied up in prorated and protracted contracts.

Hendrickson, Anzalone, Williams, Ellis, Onyemata - just to name a few. Some of these guys may not have been in the long term plans anyway, but if you miss on a few draft picks and have to tie up a bunch of cap space for voidable year contracts, your depth really suffers.

That’s where we are today.

Talented week 1 team that got picked apart by the injury bug.

Do you not see how bad to even mediocre drafting is the real problem???
Hendrickson was not about cap that was mis-evauluation . Anzalone was hurt most of the time he was here. We basically traded Williams for TM and saved a ton of $$. Ellis like Baun is an outside LB in a 3/4 , not our scheme.
Onyemata dropped off the last couple yrs here and really has not done much in ATL.

It's been the mismanagement of the draft that has hurt the most. Trading picks for Davenport and giving up way too much for Olave has hurt this team the most , plus missing on players like Turner, Trautman. Foskey, Saldiveri. All 1-3rd rnd picks . I mean we gave up a 1, 2, 2 3rds and a 4th to get Olave and now we're not sure if he'll ever play again and if he does he could be a concussion away from quitting
That's where your depth went not salary cap

 

[DSnfla]

So many concepts in motion right now on 1) who is the head coach 2) the QB and 3) the OC next year. Each of those things is a domino in a process controlled only by Ms. Benson. Does she touch the first domino again in the offseason or does she leave the interim domino alone and let it be permanent?

The post that revived this thread lays out a compelling scenario for moving on from Carr as soon as next year. But right now, I'd still say the odds are that Carr is still around next season. I do feel good about having Rattler already in the building. It's easy to see he has a higher ceiling than Haener. Who will coach him up?

The ONLY thing SR has over JH is a stronger arm and MAYBE he might take off and run a bit better. JH makes better decisions has better footwork and better accuracy.
GB is going to defer to ML and DL when it comes to the next HC let alone pick who the starting QB and who the OC is. Some of you have gone off the deep end thinking that Mrs.B is now this power owner enforcing he will on everyone around her. The DA firing was an everyone decision . Here's the direct quote from ML
"When asked if that means the decision was made primarily by owner Gayle Benson, Loomis said, “No, I’m not gonna say that. It was an organization decision.”

 

[HouseCall]

The ONLY thing SR has over JH is a stronger arm and MAYBE he might take off and run a bit better. JH makes better decisions has better footwork and better accuracy.
GB is going to defer to ML and DL when it comes to the next HC let alone pick who the starting QB and who the OC is. Some of you have gone off the deep end thinking that Mrs.B is now this power owner enforcing he will on everyone around her. The DA firing was an everyone decision . Here's the direct quote from ML
"When asked if that means the decision was made primarily by owner Gayle Benson, Loomis said, “No, I’m not gonna say that. It was an organization decision.”

You post needs more initials!!!

I felt like I was deciphering a code.

 

[DSnfla]

Yep, we were 2-3 before the injuries became something that we shouldn't be able to overcome.

Again Mike Detillier says that a team that loses it's C in game loses 70% of the time and yet we had the lead with 2min or under in both the Philly and ATL game and a fluke collision of 3 DB's and a DPI and we'd have been 4-0 going into KC

 

[DSnfla]

You post needs more initials!!!

I felt like I was deciphering a code.

Maybe you need a decoder ring, try a box of cereal

 

[kcirdor]

It gets so tiresome hearing about our "terrible drafts" when all our draft picks are starting for other teams.

 

[St. Geezy]

It gets so tiresome hearing about our "terrible drafts" when all our draft picks are starting for other teams.

I think both things could be true. We have had many bad drafts. A couple of players (Baun and Ellis) starting elsewhere who didn’t start here doesn’t change that, especially when you throw out the acknowledged great 2017 class.

These drafts in particular were the real killers. Whiff after whiff, missing pick after missing pick. And virtually all of the “non-whiffs” are just average starter types. There has been no real star power, as we have only had one Pro Bowl-level performer selected since 2018, and he has been on I.R. most of this season (McCoy).

To your point though, or at least what I think is your point, I do agree that we probably weren’t the best environment for player development in recent years.

These drafts, to me, represent why our depth is so depleted. This is our missing depth, in a nutshell. Hell, from this group, we are probably missing at least 1 or 2 stud, high level starters and another 2 or 3 average starters. Just think about how huge that in itself would be, much less depth wise.

 

[lilvipa221]

Again Mike Detillier says that a team that loses it's C in game loses 70% of the time and yet we had the lead with 2min or under in both the Philly and ATL game and a fluke collision of 3 DB's and a DPI and we'd have been 4-0 going into KC

Again, the Eagles lost their center too........and the falcons were without theirs as well the next game. Guess those in the universe of hypotheticals were ties.