Maybe we are asking the wrong questions about the QB contest (1 Viewer)

[football]

I am wait and see type and being patient for the draft. Right now I am entertain by some of people thinking and thoughts. Some just need to relax a little. Too much over thinking of things no one, other than the team, know themselves. It is hilarious with the overreactions. And training camp haven't even started.

 

[sfidc3]

Postulate #1 - The consensus is certain it is Jameis Winston
Postulate #2 - Payton's certainty how this will play out > than the consensus
Postulate #3 - In the limited time between now and opening day Payton needs to design a new or at least a heavily modified playbook for the next starter.
Postulate #4 - A Jameis playbook will be different than a Taysom Playbook. A lot different.

I think Winston will win the starting job, I saw enough of Taysom to say I don't think he is starting QB material. SP can come up with playbooks and schemes with the drop of a hat, my only concern is that he will go away from the run when it matters most. I think he will have a playbook for both because sometimes guys get hurt?

 

[Stalwart385]

There seems to be a consensus among the majority that Jameis is a forgone conclusion. If it is that obvious to everyone on the outside looking in, then certainly the person who has the most informed insight and in fact the one who will make the call must be even more certain of the outcome.

Put a different way; if Payton is any less certain than we are, then maybe some of us need to reevaluate how stubborn our convictions are.

So ...

Postulate #1 - The consensus is certain it is Jameis Winston
Postulate #2 - Payton's certainty how this will play out > than the consensus
Postulate #3 - In the limited time between now and opening day Payton needs to design a new or at least a heavily modified playbook for the next starter.
Postulate #4 - A Jameis playbook will be different than a Taysom Playbook. A lot different.

So the question is not "Who starts?", instead, we should be asking ...

• Why is Payton continuing this charade?
• Why pretend he will dilute his time crafting two divergent playbooks if he knows one is a wasted effort?
• Why make the Offense adjust and readjust to the cadence, timing, and plays of two QB's when Payton knows one won't be starting?
• Between all the new players on offense, a new playbook for the season, and a new QB isn't the best use of the preseason focusing on one uniform direction?

My conclusions

Payton really does not know what he has in Jameis or how much Taysom will improve with crafted plays and more experience.
At this point in time, the two are within a check-down pass of each other.
Payton's only recourse is to divide his time and the team's time between the two. Even at the risk of reducing the time the team and eventual winner will have to gel together.

I live by the maxim "The more you convince yourself something must be true the less likely it is."

See you all in Preseason. "Who dat? Who dat? Who dat say dey gonna beat dem Saints?"

In the past I've said the best thing they can do is choose one guy and build the offseason around him. Their styles are too different. If the competition is as real as they say it is then I do feel like you are sacrificing something to have it go back and forth.

 

[SweetT]

In the past I've said the best thing they can do is choose one guy and build the offseason around him. Their styles are too different. If the competition is as real as they say it is then I do feel like you are sacrificing something to have it go back and forth.

I agree, choose a QB, and center the offense around that guy. However, let’s say the named starting QB starts to stink it up mid season, and we still have a shot to make the playoffs. Do you bench that QB, with the system that is in place for him, and trot out a vastly different QB, to run a system that doesn’t play to his strengths? There’s only one real solution......trade for Russell Wilson! I just wanted to work that last part into there someway

 

[Stalwart385]

I agree, choose a QB, and center the offense around that guy. However, let’s say the named starting QB starts to stink it up mid season, and we still have a shot to make the playoffs. Do you bench that QB, with the system that is in place for him, and trot out a vastly different QB, to run a system that doesn’t play to his strengths? There’s only one real solution......trade for Russell Wilson! I just wanted to work that last part into there someway

Just do what you did when everything was planned around Brees and Taysom had to fill in. Except you do this because of poor play instead of injury. If our QBs are being swapped back and forth I'm assuming it's a lost season anyway.

 

[RebSaint]

I think we’re going to see both QBs taking snaps, so the question becomes how will Payton divvy up those snaps. I think it’ll be based on the game plan/opponent.

 

[SweetT]

Just do what you did when everything was planned around Brees and Taysom had to fill in. Except you do this because of poor play instead of injury. If our QBs are being swapped back and forth I'm assuming it's a lost season anyway.

Agreed. Just hoping for the best. I believe we have two good options. I wouldn’t care who gets the gig. I just want to see us slide into the playoffs and upset a few teams.

 

[Ihartsaints]

SP can come up with playbooks and schemes with the drop of a hat

No.

 

[Ihartsaints]

We get it, you like Taysom and don't like Winston.

We get it, you like Winston and don't like Taysom.

 

[Ihartsaints]

trade for Russell Wilson! I just wanted to work that last part into there someway

There is lots of time for more QB musical chairs drama. That's for sure.

 

[SaintFanInATLHell2019]

In the past I've said the best thing they can do is choose one guy and build the offseason around him. Their styles are too different. If the competition is as real as they say it is then I do feel like you are sacrificing something to have it go back and forth.

This is true to a point in this situation. In TH7's QB Joker role, there is already moderate QB subpackage built into the offense that over the last 3 years the Saints have gotten used to running. This would be incorporated into the main offense even if Winston is the starter. So, it seems to me to build both the JW2 offense, the TH7 Joker subpackage, and a hybrid that both can run when necessary. JW2 starting would have all three with the JW2 offense as the primary. TH7 starting would have the TH7 subpackage and hybrid as the primary with the JW2 offense and hybrid as JW2's subpackage.

CSP values offensive diversity to keep the defense guessing. So, I fully expect that no matter who starts, that the other will be incorporated into the final offense that rolls out.

SFIAH

 

[No2DC]

We get it, you like Winston and don't like Taysom.

And you're in the Taysom or neither draft/trade for someone else camp. At this point, everything has been said and we will not know till the season starts how it plays out.

 

[No2DC]

This is true to a point in this situation. In TH7's QB Joker role, there is already moderate QB subpackage built into the offense that over the last 3 years the Saints have gotten used to running. This would be incorporated into the main offense even if Winston is the starter. So, it seems to me to build both the JW2 offense, the TH7 Joker subpackage, and a hybrid that both can run when necessary. JW2 starting would have all three with the JW2 offense as the primary. TH7 starting would have the TH7 subpackage and hybrid as the primary with the JW2 offense and hybrid as JW2's subpackage.

CSP values offensive diversity to keep the defense guessing. So, I fully expect that no matter who starts, that the other will be incorporated into the final offense that rolls out.

SFIAH

Unfortunately, a choice has to made between the two or draft someone this year. Drew made it easy because he was the guy no questions asked. Whoever gets the majority of starts this year is the guy and the other guy is leaving. It's one thing to say you're a backup to Drew Brees, it another to say you're a backup to Taysom Hill or Jameis Winston. If we draft a QB in the first both guys will know the writing is on the wall.

 

[Ihartsaints]

This is true to a point in this situation. In TH7's QB Joker role, there is already moderate QB subpackage built into the offense that over the last 3 years the Saints have gotten used to running. This would be incorporated into the main offense even if Winston is the starter. So, it seems to me to build both the JW2 offense, the TH7 Joker subpackage, and a hybrid that both can run when necessary. JW2 starting would have all three with the JW2 offense as the primary. TH7 starting would have the TH7 subpackage and hybrid as the primary with the JW2 offense and hybrid as JW2's subpackage.

CSP values offensive diversity to keep the defense guessing. So, I fully expect that no matter who starts, that the other will be incorporated into the final offense that rolls out.

SFIAH

Taysom's wildcat QB is more effective when offenses have to defend both pass and QB runs. He was a good compliment to Drew because he could actually throw the ball 56 yards. James, unlike Drew also can so I would expect fewer, not more Taysom wildcat snaps.

If Jameis starts it will be because Payton decided he is the best passer by a fair margin.

A large enough margin that Taysom's running superiority is not enough to make him the better candidate.

So far there is no empirical evidence by which to judge that margin. If there really is a legitimate competition I honestly think it will boil down to ball security being the deciding factor and not that one's a dramatically better passer.

 

[Ihartsaints]

At this point, everything has been said

Then why are you still talking?

Seriously, don't you have anything better to do than troll other posters? No one makes you read my posts.