Maybe we are asking the wrong questions about the QB contest (2 Viewers)

[Trey W.]

If there are two different Offensive packages for each QB I can see it being:

Heavy run / play action style for JW

Zone read heavy / spread formations for Taysom

 

[Ihartsaints]

Unfortunately, a choice has to made between the two or draft someone this year. Drew made it easy because he was the guy no questions asked. Whoever gets the majority of starts this year is the guy and the other guy is leaving. It's one thing to say you're a backup to Drew Brees, it another to say you're a backup to Taysom Hill or Jameis Winston. If we draft a QB in the first both guys will know the writing is on the wall.

I thought you just said there was nothing left to say.

 

[Gumbo's Dad]

I think you may be right that we are asking the wrong question. Since it is highly unlikely that the Saints will be able to trade (or have cap room) for Wilson or Watson and it is also unlikely that any of the top 5 QBs in this year's draft class fall to the Saints, the question is how does the team view the remaining 2021 class as well as the QBs that should be in the 2022 draft? OK, long question. Maybe they just love Jamie Newman, Davis Mills or Kyle Trask. Maybe they are taking the long view, believing that they need to fill all of the holes left by the cap purge in this draft and they can address the QB position in next year's draft/free agency if Winston/Hill don't work out this year.

We don't know what Payton and the front office are thinking or their plans going forward. I am comfortable believing that they have a plan that is flexible and allows for jumping on an opportunity to upgrade the position if Winston or Hill don't appear to be the answer for the future. I won't spend a lot of time concerned about it, but if I had to guess, I would say they will roll with what they have this year and reevaluate after the season with an eye on drafting a QB in 2022.

I think this is the most logical approach. I also think whoever the qb will be to begin the season will have a curtailed playbook until Sean trusts either guy. So the issue as originally posted is not as complex as it is made out to be. However, to add to the conundrum, it is possible that whoever starts the season does not end it. It seems to me that the entire season is experimental.

 

[Judge_Smails]

Underhill, Florio, and according to them the Saints coaches say JW runs essentially the same offense as Drew, but he targets the intermediate and deep stuff more often because he has the arm to make good throws downfield later.

Jameis maybe will need to check down more because of how great Kamara is, but they are not going to be installing a run and shoot offense if he wins the job.

Taysom will also run basically the same offense, but more RPO and QB runs, plus he only reads half the field and needs more time to set and throw downfield. The offensive shell, route spacing, line calls, etc will essentially be the same for both even if play calls, the way they read defenses before and after the snap, and number of scramble plays is different.

If Jameis is half as good in a Sean Payton offense as I think he can be he will win the job hands down, but there will certainly be a legit competition. Hopefully Saints fans will accept the outcome.

 

[CJL]

There isn't a contest jamies winston will be the starter week 1

 

[No2DC]

I thought you just said there was nothing left to say.

You make it so difficult with your illuminating posts

 

[NOLAJM504]

Thank you for reminding me I need to see my doctor about Adderall.

 

[Derrick 63]

I won't spend a lot of time concerned about it, but if I had to guess, I would say they will roll with what they have this year and reevaluate after the season with an eye on drafting a QB in 2022.

Bingo.

 

[Ihartsaints]

You make it so difficult with your illuminating posts

Um, Illuminati ...

 

[Taker597]

I can see you're going through your 5 stages of #WinstonNotMyStarter Grief and you're at bargaining.


The reality of it all. We are due for a down year. If Winston not the guy. We find another guy next year.

We are never paying Hill $30 million per season and get over this pipe dream of that ever being possible.

 

[RAIZO SAINTS]

There seems to be a consensus among the majority that Jameis is a forgone conclusion. If it is that obvious to everyone on the outside looking in, then certainly the person who has the most informed insight and in fact the one who will make the call must be even more certain of the outcome.

Put a different way; if Payton is any less certain than we are, then maybe some of us need to reevaluate how stubborn our convictions are.

So ...

Postulate #1 - The consensus is certain it is Jameis Winston
Postulate #2 - Payton's certainty how this will play out > than the consensus
Postulate #3 - In the limited time between now and opening day Payton needs to design a new or at least a heavily modified playbook for the next starter.
Postulate #4 - A Jameis playbook will be different than a Taysom Playbook. A lot different.

So the question is not "Who starts?", instead, we should be asking ...

• Why is Payton continuing this charade?
• Why pretend he will dilute his time crafting two divergent playbooks if he knows one is a wasted effort?
• Why make the Offense adjust and readjust to the cadence, timing, and plays of two QB's when Payton knows one won't be starting?
• Between all the new players on offense, a new playbook for the season, and a new QB isn't the best use of the preseason focusing on one uniform direction?

My conclusions

Payton really does not know what he has in Jameis or how much Taysom will improve with crafted plays and more experience.
At this point in time, the two are within a check-down pass of each other.
Payton's only recourse is to divide his time and the team's time between the two. Even at the risk of reducing the time the team and eventual winner will have to gel together.

I live by the maxim "The more you convince yourself something must be true the less likely it is."

See you all in Preseason. "Who dat? Who dat? Who dat say dey gonna beat dem Saints?"

why don't you just waite. have you ever played poker?

 

[football]

Underhill, Florio, and according to them the Saints coaches say JW runs essentially the same offense as Drew, but he targets the intermediate and deep stuff more often because he has the arm to make good throws downfield later.

Jameis maybe will need to check down more because of how great Kamara is, but they are not going to be installing a run and shoot offense if he wins the job.

Taysom will also run basically the same offense, but more RPO and QB runs, plus he only reads half the field and needs more time to set and throw downfield. The offensive shell, route spacing, line calls, etc will essentially be the same for both even if play calls, the way they read defenses before and after the snap, and number of scramble plays is different.

If Jameis is half as good in a Sean Payton offense as I think he can be he will win the job hands down, but there will certainly be a legit competition. Hopefully Saints fans will accept the outcome.

If we go with Winston, I personally go with the "Bridgewater" approach where he does enough to win games. This limit turnovers and increase our win chances. Allow your skill players to make plays and play solid defense. We kind of have to look at Winston career and see how he was doing too much and looking too hard for the big plays. This caused a lot of his turnovers. Hope Payton can continue this approach that resulted in more wins and less turnovers since 2017. I am looking at Brees stats and every year before 2017 he had have double digit interceptions. Even his best years of 2009 and 2011, he was throwing interceptions. I hoping Payton doesn't try to do too much with Winston. He may have the better arm strength but he isn't Brees. After watching videos of his interception, he still concern me. But Taysom isn't calming me either.

 

[Judge_Smails]

If we go with Winston, I personally go with the "Bridgewater" approach where he does enough to win games. This limit turnovers and increase our win chances. Allow your skill players to make plays and play solid defense. We kind of have to look at Winston career and see how he was doing too much and looking too hard for the big plays. This caused a lot of his turnovers. Hope Payton can continue this approach that resulted in more wins and less turnovers since 2017. I am looking at Brees stats and every year before 2017 he had have double digit interceptions. Even his best years of 2009 and 2011, he was throwing interceptions. I hoping Payton doesn't try to do too much with Winston. He may have the better arm strength but he isn't Brees. After watching videos of his interception, he still concern me. But Taysom isn't calming me either.

I agree that Winston will benefit from Payton putting him in situations that make it easy for him to make good decisions and minimize risk.

If things break right early in the season, he gets good production from the running game, gets some big YAC plays from Kamara and Harris, builds his confidence and that helps him still be sound with decisions if he needs to be a gunslinger at some point.

Similar can be said for Taysom as well. The running game and defense need to be good from the get go this year.

 

[football]

I agree that Winston will benefit from Payton putting him in situations that make it easy for him to make good decisions and minimize risk.

If things break right early in the season, he gets good production from the running game, gets some big YAC plays from Kamara and Harris, builds his confidence and that helps him still be sound with decisions if he needs to be a gunslinger at some point.

Similar can be said for Taysom as well. The running game and defense need to be good from the get go this year.

This probably a thread within a thread but my mind has been debating for the past few weeks on whether we should draft for a quarterback or not. I still believe we should but only if a good one is still available.

 

[Judge_Smails]

This probably a thread within a thread but my mind has been debating for the past few weeks on whether we should draft for a quarterback or not. I still believe we should but only if a good one is still available.

It seems hard to imagine packaging picks to move up when we need as many as possible to fill the roster and it is hard to imagine anyone there at 28 worth the value.

Maybe after the first, but you would have to think 2 of our first 3 picks will be LB and CB, so then you are maybe looking at 3rd .rd at best, more likely 4th at the earliest?