Mike Florio bringing the proper perspective to our organization: “Saints are a solid long-term destination for a new coach“ (3 Viewers)

Dang I think thats the nicest thing Florio ever said about the saints

What is hilarious is that Florio says something good about the Saints and now it's pissing off a very disgruntled portion of our fanbase that he said nice things about us because it doesn't match how they feel about the team. All he is saying is that this is not a good job short term, but in the long run it has been and will likely continue to be a good organization. But these days anything short of calling the organization a dumpster fire is met with anger and derision.
 
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Who else remembers the early, early days of ProFootballTalk when Florio would regulalry heap dung on the Saints? Does anyone else remember when he even made fun of the Saints' having a flower as a logo?

Florio redeemed himself in the eyes of Saints' fans when he took the team's side against Roger Goodell's Bountygate facade.

And now we hate him all over again for refusing to call us a dumpster fire organization.
 
Exactly. Talking about this team's future without mentioning Mick ignores a critical obstacle. I'm willing to give Moore a fair shot, but Mick is part of the problem; we need new people in the FO instead of the collection of has-beens.

I think he's a partial problem. There are some really good things about Mick. He makes things happen that his coaching staff wants. Let's be honest with ourselves. We wouldn't be questioning him at all if Dennis Allen had worked out. But Mick supported him and made requests happen for him just like he did for Payton.

The cap we view as an issue. But in truth if you have a really good coach, its not much of an issue at all. Its when you have a bad, or even mediocre coach that it comes a problem. So I understand the philosophy even if I don't agree with it.

Where I'm hard in Mick, is I'm at a complete loss as to how he looked at Dennis Allen as a good idea for head coach. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever to be even remotely acceptable to even look his way as a head coach candidate. I'm completely dumb founded how anyone could think it was a good idea. There were so, so many signs slapping everyone in the face of what a horrible, terrible idea it was. Then to defend him the way he did in that presser to give him year 3, i was just in shock. Its so mind boggling to me that part of me wonders if he went into that presser saying to himself "Im gonna show support but this is his last chance". Because if he really, really did mean every word he said in that year 2 presser, then I'm utterly confused at how his logic works.
 
I think he's a partial problem. There are some really good things about Mick. He makes things happen that his coaching staff wants. Let's be honest with ourselves. We wouldn't be questioning him at all if Dennis Allen had worked out. But Mick supported him and made requests happen for him just like he did for Payton.

The cap we view as an issue. But in truth if you have a really good coach, its not much of an issue at all. Its when you have a bad, or even mediocre coach that it comes a problem. So I understand the philosophy even if I don't agree with it.

Where I'm hard in Mick, is I'm at a complete loss as to how he looked at Dennis Allen as a good idea for head coach. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever to be even remotely acceptable to even look his way as a head coach candidate. I'm completely dumb founded how anyone could think it was a good idea. There were so, so many signs slapping everyone in the face of what a horrible, terrible idea it was. Then to defend him the way he did in that presser to give him year 3, i was just in shock. Its so mind boggling to me that part of me wonders if he went into that presser saying to himself "Im gonna show support but this is his last chance". Because if he really, really did mean every word he said in that year 2 presser, then I'm utterly confused at how his logic works.
I agree that you want a GM supporting the coach but not to the detriment of the team; he has to keep an I in the long term objectively. If you make a mistake, don't double down on it. He's done that with Allen and draft picks.
 
What hilarious is that Florio says something good about the Saints and now it's pissing off a very disgruntled portion of our fanbase that he said nice things about us because it doesn't match how they feel about the team. All he is saying is that this is not a good job short term, but in the long run it has been and will likely continue to be a good organization. But these days anything short of calling the organization a dumpster fire is met with anger and derision.
I'm not pissed off about it. I think he left some things out because he doesn't follow that closely and doesn't know the details. It's clear that he doesn't know the details because he thinks they can move off of Jordan, Davis and Mathieu to get the cap right when the exact opposite it true.

Some believe that Loomis' has learned that he needs to get things under control because he was a bit more conservative last off season. I say it's too early to say that until it becomes a pattern. The next month or two will let us know whether he thinks we are in win now mode still or if we're resetting.

Either way, it IS a tough short term place to coach for any coach. There is only so much that can be done. And while Loomis has shifted roster responsibility to the past two coaches, the next coach is going to be saddled with the last coaches problems. There is no way to get those draft picks back and make better choices. A lot of the other teams with vacancies had at least selected a lot more young players over the past 5 years, possibly some with talent to work with. Over that time the Jags drafted 18 more players, the Commanders 16, Jets 15, Raiders and Cowboys both 11 more. Only the Bears were close to us with only two more selections and they are considered by many to be an eternally mismanaged team.

The teams needs a new strategy. The old one has not worked out well for the team. We haven't seen enough evidence that the front office wants a new strategy because they'd have to admit their failures. Maybe they're doing that internally, but we aren't seeing it from the outside looking in. And like I said before, we'll know a lot more in the next couple of months. The direction we're headed will be obvious by the choices they make.
 

Saving nfl media journalism with this perfectly reasonable take.
Yeah…this is, & has always been my take on our current HCing search. But alas, it seems like a faction of the fanbase just wants to complain, cry & moan, bash, blame, & call for Loomis’s head. It’s like it never registered to them that Mickey Loomis is, has, & will always be a reflection of the HC he hires. He assimilates & takes on the characteristics of the HC & executes accordingly.

Loomis is a facilitator. Whatever the HC want/needs, Mickey gets it done. It’s the reason why we loved him w/Payton, then lost faith in him w/DA. From the QB he brought in, to the staff decisions, & the drafts, Sean Payton made better moves cause he is a true HC. DA, in comparison, was & is unfortunately a coordinator only who brought in a C-level QB & allot of the staff he failed w/in his past HCing flop. Naturally, history repeated itself & here we are.

This isnt all on Loomis, but it sure is easy to blame him i guess. Sure, he hired him, but to me, crashing the franchise is on DA, not Loomis & def not on Gayle Benson. The beefs i have w/Mickey is him not backing the in season firing of DA, & how he utterly BS’s everyone at his pressers, lol! It’s almost like he loves poking at the hate based faction of the fanbase w/his toxic positivity.

Anyways, i agree w/Florio. We somehow correct our QB situation & eat crap w/the cap the next year or 2, & we’ll be in a way better place. But this all rides on who Mickey ultimately hires as the new HC.
 
"MIke...MIckey here. How ya been, how's the family? Listen, I need a favor - it's a small one. When's your next column coming out?"
 
What hilarious is that Florio says something good about the Saints and now it's pissing off a very disgruntled portion of our fanbase that he said nice things about us because it doesn't match how they feel about the team. All he is saying is that this is not a good job short term, but in the long run it has been and will likely continue to be a good organization. But these days anything short of calling the organization a dumpster fire is met with anger and derision.

I hope that people aren't like that in real life how they are with the Saints because if they are, there's a whooooole lot of people that need some serious help.
 
"What do the Saints have? An owner who is patient and doesn’t meddle."

That I think is the biggest appeal to our HC spot. Gayle will give a lot of control and influence to our new HC. Decisions, coaching staff, roster (draft and FA), etc. That coupled with the fact that she was more than patient with DA when it was clear a lot sooner he was never gonna be the guy. There's a lot of owners that have pulled the plug after one year, hell even shorter in some cases. I think the biggest offer here is opportunity, and in spades.
Bull. Loomis does meddle. Thats why Sean left us.
 

Saving nfl media journalism with this perfectly reasonable take.
Not a shock it's Florio with a sober and logical take on the Saints' situation relative to other franchises. He was the lone national guy who exposed the bounty fiasco for what it was. Excellently done column. (I'm old; I still call these things columns :giggle:)

If the hire is Moore, then it's up to him to prove himself as a young, hungry coach who's eager to win games as a head coach in this league.
 
I'm not pissed off about it. I think he left some things out because he doesn't follow that closely and doesn't know the details. It's clear that he doesn't know the details because he thinks they can move off of Jordan, Davis and Mathieu to get the cap right when the exact opposite it true.

Some believe that Loomis' has learned that he needs to get things under control because he was a bit more conservative last off season. I say it's too early to say that until it becomes a pattern. The next month or two will let us know whether he thinks we are in win now mode still or if we're resetting.

Either way, it IS a tough short term place to coach for any coach. There is only so much that can be done. And while Loomis has shifted roster responsibility to the past two coaches, the next coach is going to be saddled with the last coaches problems. There is no way to get those draft picks back and make better choices. A lot of the other teams with vacancies had at least selected a lot more young players over the past 5 years, possibly some with talent to work with. Over that time the Jags drafted 18 more players, the Commanders 16, Jets 15, Raiders and Cowboys both 11 more. Only the Bears were close to us with only two more selections and they are considered by many to be an eternally mismanaged team.

The teams needs a new strategy. The old one has not worked out well for the team. We haven't seen enough evidence that the front office wants a new strategy because they'd have to admit their failures. Maybe they're doing that internally, but we aren't seeing it from the outside looking in. And like I said before, we'll know a lot more in the next couple of months. The direction we're headed will be obvious by the choices they make.

I didn't say you were pissed off. If you don't fit the description then I wasn't talking about you.

I understand all of the issues with the team and I agree with most of your criticism of the team and Loomis. I'm just saying that despite those things not everything he does is wrong and he has and continues to do good things at times. For example, the Lattimore trade this season.

And yes, he has done some really dumb things in the last 2 years and he should have started the rebuild 3 years ago, but he did start to get the cap together last season and he started cutting loose at least one older, expensive player in Lattimore. Plus, we know that Loomis is capable of being at least a solid GM since he worked well with Payton.

So, he does know how things need to be done, and as you have pointed out the old cap strategy was different than what has been done the last few years. Will he return to the things that made this a good team and good organization? I don't know, but there is nothing we can do to change the fact that Loomis is the GM and no amount of griping is going to change that. All we can really do is see what he does and judge the results over the next few years. Maybe he changes and fixes things. Maybe he doesn't and he gets let go.

And in the end, while I think Loomis has made plenty of recent mistakes, I still don't think that justifies calling this a dumpster fire organization and thinking that we are doomed no matter what.

Being critical I get, but the attitude of many poster, not you, that no matter what they do and no matter what happens, it's proof that Loomis is incompetent and that this is a dumpster fire organization, is just annoying and not supported by the facts. The truth is that over the last 3 years we had two mediocre years, including one winning record at 9-8, and one terrible year at 5-12. That's not a dumpster fire and that's not hopeless. Yes, those records are not acceptable and changes need to be made in the way Loomis does things and we need to replace the aging vets quickly or things will go bad fast, but things are not hopeless. Especially since we are about to vastly improve the quality of our HC no matter who we hire because DA was that bad.

In short, Florio is right, it's not an attractive short term job, but long term this has been a good organization since the Bensons took over. And there is no reason to believe that it will not continue to be so even if that takes letting Loomis go if he refuses to change the way he has done things the last few years. Gayle stepped in and fired DA when it got too bad and I'm sure she would do the same if it needs to be done with Loomis. So, long term this is not a dumpster fire.
 
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I didn't say you were pissed off. If you don't fit the description then I wasn't talking about you.

I understand all of the issues with the team and I agree with most of your criticism of the team and Loomis. I'm just saying that despite those things not everything he does is wrong and he has and continues to do good things at times. For example, the Lattimore trade this season.

And yes, he has done some really dumb things in the last 2 years and he should have started the rebuild 3 years ago, but he did start to get the cap together last season and he started cutting loose at least one older, expensive player in Lattimore. Plus, we know that Loomis is capable of being at least a solid GM since he worked well with Payton.

So, he does know how things need to be done, and as you have pointed out the old cap strategy was different than what has been done the last few years. Will he return to the things that made this a good team and good organization? I don't know, but there is nothing we can do to change the fact that Loomis is the GM and no amount of griping is going to change that. All we can really do is see what he does and judge the results over the next few years. Maybe he changes and fixes things. Maybe he doesn't and he gets let go.

And in the end, while I think Loomis has made plenty of recent mistakes, I still don't think that justifies calling this a dumpster fire organization and thinking that we are doomed no matter what.

Being critical I get, but the attitude of many poster, not you, that no matter what they do and no matter what happens, it's proof that Loomis is incompetent and that this is a dumpster fire organization, is just annoying and not supported by the facts. The truth is that over the last 3 years we had two mediocre years, including one winning record at 9-8, and one terrible year at 5-12. That's not a dumpster fire and that's not hopeless. Yes, those records are not acceptable and changes need to be made in the way Loomis does things and we need to replace the aging vets quickly, but things are not hopeless. Especially since we are about to vastly improve the quality of our HC no matter who we hire because DA was that bad.

In short, Florio is right, it's not an attractive short term job, but long term this has been a good organization since the Bensons took over. And there is no reason to believe that it will not continue to be so even if that takes letting Loomis go if he refuses to change the way he has done things the last few years. Gayle stepped in and fired DA when it got too bad and I'm sure she would do the same if it needs to be done with Loomis. So, long term this is not a dumpster fire.
I agree with almost everything you said. However, the reputation the Saints have as an organization is tied 100% to the Sean Payton and Drew Brees years. The years before were not great and the years after have not been great, yet. I know Loomis is a smart guy. He CAN turn this around if he wants to do it. But I also know he is arrogant and doesn't listen to a lot of outside voices. We will know very quickly how things are going to look long term by what he does to get under the cap, what he does in free agency and by how the draft is managed. This is either the year we're going to change course or the year we're going to replace the coaches while not changing much else. But for me to say this is a good organization in the long term, I want to see that they can pivot from past mistakes. I have yet to see that but I hope to.
 

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