Mike Florio bringing the proper perspective to our organization: “Saints are a solid long-term destination for a new coach“ (43 Viewers)

[Geldo]

Teams have been in much worse spots than the Saints in 2025 - I mean remember when we had an astronaut running the team; when we were 1-15; when we didn't even have a home after Katrina.
Detroit went 0-16 and the Bills were whipping boys for a few years and look at their resurgence.

We need a coach with long-term vision and a gradual move away from the kick the can approach to the cap. After all Free Agency is where you fill your needs, and the draft is where you build your team.
Next year if Khai manages the salary cap well to match a new rebuild strategy (and he always does miracles) we can compete. We don't need to get all flash and go for a QB (look what happened to the Falcons) just have the cash for competent OGs and DTs.

Just need a bit of patience and an acceptance that in 2025 the goal must be to be competitive in games and not capitulate.

Two good drafts and we could be playoff contenders again.

 

[St. Widge]

I agree with almost everything you said. However, the reputation the Saints have as an organization is tied 100% to the Sean Payton and Drew Brees years. The years before were not great and the years after have not been great, yet. I know Loomis is a smart guy. He CAN turn this around if he wants to do it. But I also know he is arrogant and doesn't listen to a lot of outside voices. We will know very quickly how things are going to look long term by what he does to get under the cap, what he does in free agency and by how the draft is managed. This is either the year we're going to change course or the year we're going to replace the coaches while not changing much else. But for me to say this is a good organization in the long term, I want to see that they can pivot from past mistakes. I have yet to see that but I hope to.

I agree this is the year we see what Loomis will be going forward and if he gets it. And I would think that talking to the perspective HC hires would have to show him the issues with the team and that he needs to change to fix them. He either does it right and retires in a few years with a good legacy in tact or he fails and gets fired in a few years after destroying what should have been a great legacy.

I don't have this dim view of his ego that others have. I think essentially all people in the position he is in, in the NFL and in the real world, have big egos. Payton certainly had/has a giant ego as do most coaches, players, and front office people in the NFL. But, Loomis has in the past, when Haslett was here and when Payton was here, been willing to stay in the background and he seemed happy to be there. Will he go back there now? I tend to think he didn't really change as much as he was forced to be the face of the franchise because DA wasn't good at it. So as long as he hires the right HC, he will return to being facilitator in the way that he was with Payton. His biggest failing to me is that he wouldn't tell DA no when he wanted to do things that were detrimental to the long term future of the team.

Anyway, this was never a historically great organization, but at least since Benson took over, it has been a respectable organization that does things right and managed to build to a Super Bowl. And that is the situation with most NFL franchises. Only a few are truly dumpster fires. The rest hover in the middle rising and falling based on the quality of their HC and QB. It was never and probably never is going to be one of the top 5 jobs in the NFL but it has been and should continue to be a solid NFL job that most coaches would want.

 

[sfidc3]

Especially when the GM is a de facto owner, as here.

Which is the biggest blind spot in the Florio piece - it assumes that Loomis as GM is a feature, not a bug, for a prospective coach. There is some evidence to suggest that the opposite is true.

This is very much true but it also doesn't mean they won't get this coaching hire right.....impossible to know what is going on really, part of the problem is the roles really aren't clear in the Saints organization at least publicly....

False lol.

FWIW, the one insider on this board, that seems to have a level of trust from the board owner supports the theory Loomis vs CSP theory as do I....it matters not right now, hopefully Moore is our next HC....

 

[Saint Spud]

FWIW, the one insider on this board, that seems to have a level of trust from the board owner supports the theory Loomis vs CSP theory as do I....it matters not right now, hopefully Moore is our next HC....

And it’s been debunked by others. It’s tin foil hat stuff.

SP had been looking at other jobs forever. If it really had to do with Loomis, why wouldn’t he have just left after 2016 when he had the chance?

He wanted to leave for the colts job bc of Luck.
He ultimately left because he was burned out after Covid, Brees retired, Jameis showed promise and then got hurt and he ran himself into the ground getting that team to .500.

People love conspiracy theories. But the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

 

[sfidc3]

And it’s been debunked by others. It’s tin foil hat stuff.

SP had been looking at other jobs forever. If it really had to do with Loomis, why wouldn’t he have just left after 2016 when he had the chance?

He wanted to leave for the colts job bc of Luck.
He ultimately left because he was burned out after Covid, Brees retired, Jameis showed promise and then got hurt and he ran himself into the ground getting that team to .500.

People love conspiracy theories. But the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

Yes they do, including the ones that had CSP going to other places (most notably the Cowboys) since like 2010.....

Debunked how? No one really knows, you don't either....

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Where I'm hard in Mick, is I'm at a complete loss as to how he looked at Dennis Allen as a good idea for head coach. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever to be even remotely acceptable to even look his way as a head coach candidate. I'm completely dumb founded how anyone could think it was a good idea. There were so, so many signs slapping everyone in the face of what a horrible, terrible idea it was. Then to defend him the way he did in that presser to give him year 3, i was just in shock. Its so mind boggling to me that part of me wonders if he went into that presser saying to himself "Im gonna show support but this is his last chance". Because if he really, really did mean every word he said in that year 2 presser, then I'm utterly confused at how his logic works.

This is a large part of my concerns. Not just the decision to hire DA, or the bizarre press conference, or even the fact that Gayle had to go around him to fire DA, but everyone seems to have memory-holed him calling a meeting with all the players at the end of the season to tell them to shut up about how bad DA was and to fall in line. It's been like finding out Loomis was a flat earther, and not just to troll people, like he actually believes it. Hard to take him seriously after all that.

 

[St. Widge]

This is very much true but it also doesn't mean they won't get this coaching hire right.....impossible to know what is going on really, part of the problem is the roles really aren't clear in the Saints organization at least publicly....


FWIW, the one insider on this board, that seems to have a level of trust from the board owner supports the theory Loomis vs CSP theory as do I....it matters not right now, hopefully Moore is our next HC....

To the extent such a rift did exist, I wonder how much of it may have had to do with Payton tying to work the deal with Miami where he and Brady would have went there? That would have been a breach of his contract to talk to Miami without permission and may have lead to some issues between Payton and Loomis in the last couple years.

Still, I think if there was a rift that was that bad, Payton would have demanded a trade instead of retiring for a year. After all, he had to be traded anyway due to being under contract when he retired.

So, if there was a rift, I don't think that was a major reason for him retiring. I'll take Payton at his word that he was burned out and needed a break as the main reason. But, given his history of looking for other jobs and the number of times his mentor Bill Parcells moved, I think he was just looking for a new place to work because he felt he had stayed here too long and wanted to get a fresh start someplace else.

 

[St. Widge]

This is a large part of my concerns. Not just the decision to hire DA, or the bizarre press conference, or even the fact that Gayle had to go around him to fire DA, but everyone seems to have memory-holed him calling a meeting with all the players at the end of the season to tell them to shut up about how bad DA was and to fall in line. It's been like finding out Loomis was a flat earther, and not just to troll people, like he actually believes it. Hard to take him seriously after all that.

I just mentioned that team meeting in my post above. But it was an admittedly too long and rambling post.

Anyway, he should have fired DA when he realized that he needed to do that, but I think he did that because he knew that DA didn't have the leadership skills to deal with it.

 

[sfidc3]

To the extent such a rift did exist, I wonder how much of it may have had to do with Payton tying to work the deal with Miami where he and Brady would have went there? That would have been a breach of his contract to talk to Miami without permission and may have lead to some issues between Payton and Loomis in the last couple years.

Still, I think if there was a rift that was that bad, Payton would have demanded a trade instead of retiring for a year. After all, he had to be traded anyway due to being under contract when he retired.

So, if there was a rift, I don't think that was a major reason for him retiring. I'll take Payton at his word that he was burned out and needed a break as the main reason. But, given his history of looking for other jobs and the number of times his mentor Bill Parcells moved, I think he was just looking for a new place to work because he felt he had stayed here too long and wanted to get a fresh start someplace else.

Plausible....I think it is also possible the rift was for full control and Gayle sided with Loomis.....hopefully one day we find out....

 

[Elvis]

I agree this is the year we see what Loomis will be going forward and if he gets it. And I would think that talking to the perspective HC hires would have to show him the issues with the team and that he needs to change to fix them. He either does it right and retires in a few years with a good legacy in tact or he fails and gets fired in a few years after destroying what should have been a great legacy.

I don't have this dim view of his ego that others have. I think essentially all people in the position he is in, in the NFL and in the real world, have big egos. Payton certainly had/has a giant ego as do most coaches, players, and front office people in the NFL. But, Loomis has in the past, when Haslett was here and when Payton was here, been willing to stay in the background and he seemed happy to be there. Will he go back there now? I tend to think he didn't really change as much as he was forced to be the face of the franchise because DA wasn't good at it. So as long as he hires the right HC, he will return to being facilitator in the way that he was with Payton. His biggest failing to me is that he wouldn't tell DA no when he wanted to do things that were detrimental to the long term future of the team.

Anyway, this was never a historically great organization, but at least since Benson took over, it has been a respectable organization that does things right and managed to build to a Super Bowl. And that is the situation with most NFL franchises. Only a few are truly dumpster fires. The rest hover in the middle rising and falling based on the quality of their HC and QB. It was never and probably never is going to be one of the top 5 jobs in the NFL but it has been and should continue to be a solid NFL job that most coaches would want.

Yeah, we're pretty close on this and I think it's a pretty reasonable take despite what some others think. The whole "he wouldn't tell DA no" thing is big for me. In fact, I would have preferred that he told Payton no a few more times as well. I think that IS part of the job of the GM. It worked out better with Payton because he was a much better evaluator of talent than the average coach. Not perfect, but pretty good. DA was not good outside of a couple of defensive backs and that really set the franchise back.

And I also don't think many are calling the team a dumpster fire either. Most of the teams that changed coaches aren't dumpster fires either. Many of those teams are trying to make something work and are maybe just a little too impatient. But it's not like they're not trying. We're maybe on the too patient side slightly and a little too trusting in what the coach wants vs. what the scouts say are the best NFL players. And we trade away draft picks too much and that hurts depth. All of that can be fixed if they choose to do so.

 

[Saint Spud]

Yes they do, including the ones that had CSP going to other places (most notably the Cowboys) since like 2010.....

Debunked how? No one really knows, you don't either....

You’re taking the words of people on a message board over far more proven sources.

Youre welcome to make that choice. But I will also gladly point out where it’s been debunked by others (including the people directly involved).

 

[sfidc3]

You’re taking the words of people on a message board over far more proven sources.

Youre welcome to make that choice. But I will also gladly point out where it’s been debunked by others (including the people directly involved).

Something about words and actions, nothing has been debunked.....you don't know what happened and neither do I, it's all speculation, if you believe you know, then good for you?

 

[ilvdsnts]

(I acknowledge she stepped in to can DA)

She also stepped in and fired SVG after 1 season when it became clear the Pels players had issue with his personality/coaching style. So, multiple examples of her being willing to step in when she feels she has to and that she is a player's owner and willing to do what it takes to keep the player's happy.

 

[St.Dan]

Teams have been in much worse spots than the Saints in 2025 - I mean remember when we had an astronaut running the team; when we were 1-15; when we didn't even have a home after Katrina.
Detroit went 0-16 and the Bills were whipping boys for a few years and look at their resurgence.

We need a coach with long-term vision and a gradual move away from the kick the can approach to the cap. After all Free Agency is where you fill your needs, and the draft is where you build your team.
Next year if Khai manages the salary cap well to match a new rebuild strategy (and he always does miracles) we can compete. We don't need to get all flash and go for a QB (look what happened to the Falcons) just have the cash for competent OGs and DTs.

Just need a bit of patience and an acceptance that in 2025 the goal must be to be competitive in games and not capitulate.

Two good drafts and we could be playoff contenders again.

Agreed. The younger fans didn't live through Mecom's ownership all the mostly-bum coaches before Mora. One of 'em was even named Bum, ha. Those years, it seemed the Saints had training wheels on their bike and the rest of the league had already learned how to ride a full-on two-wheel bike!

 

[St. Widge]

Yeah, we're pretty close on this and I think it's a pretty reasonable take despite what some others think. The whole "he wouldn't tell DA no" thing is big for me. In fact, I would have preferred that he told Payton no a few more times as well. I think that IS part of the job of the GM. It worked out better with Payton because he was a much better evaluator of talent than the average coach. Not perfect, but pretty good. DA was not good outside of a couple of defensive backs and that really set the franchise back.

And I also don't think many are calling the team a dumpster fire either. Most of the teams that changed coaches aren't dumpster fires either. Many of those teams are trying to make something work and are maybe just a little too impatient. But it's not like they're not trying. We're maybe on the too patient side slightly and a little too trusting in what the coach wants vs. what the scouts say are the best NFL players. And we trade away draft picks too much and that hurts depth. All of that can be fixed if they choose to do so.

I do think that patience and giving his HC anything he wants is both Loomis' biggest strength and his biggest weakness. He does need to stop being patient to the point of it being a fault and he needs to not let HCs do things like the Davenport trade, Watson pursuit, and Carr signing.

As far the HC hiring process this year, it has felt slow and there have been some disappointing turns like Glenn and Brady pulling out, but like Underhill mentioned in his latest article, the Broncos HC search was a disaster the year they hired Payton, but now nobody really cares that Harbaugh turned them down an Demeco Ryans turned them down twice. People were calling the Broncos a terrible organization at that point but nobody thinks that now. We just have to get the hire right.