N/S Giants GM calls Eli "skittish" (1 Viewer)

[Scott B]

No, the Giants suck as an organization. They have failed to draft offensive playmakers to give Eli something to work with.

Peyton looks as good as he does because Bill Polian brings/brought in players like Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Joesph Addai and Edgerrin James.

Peyton has been missing Marvin Harrison for much of this season, and look at his stats and the Colts' offensive struggles.

In addition, Polian has brought in quality defensive players like Bob Sanders and Dwight Freeney that are consistent playmakers.

The Short Attention Span-laden NY media/Giants fanbase seems to forget that Phil Simms looked pretty sorry until they started giving him some quality playmakers to work with. He rewarded Giants fans with the greatest completion percentage ever in a Super Bowl in Super Bowl XXI

not to mention made Jeff Hostetler look like a hero in a Super Bowl as well

 

[NPs6724]

Eli has had Tiki Barber, Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, and Jeremy Shockey during his career. How are they not offensive playmakers? The problem is Eli doesn't have a "leader" mentality. When you have loud, outspoken teammates, the QB needs to be louder. Not necessarily outspoken, but he has to be able to grab their attention and hsut them up. Eli isn't a leader. If he wasn't in New York and if he didn't play with so many loudmouths, he'd probably be okay. And for a 4th-year starter with the last name Manning, he certainly isn't improving much. Since his first full season as a starter (2005), his yards and average have decreased while his TDs and INTs have leveled off. The only improvement has been completion %. He's just not a very good QB, especially with that last name.

 

['79 Saints]

Eli has had Tiki Barber, Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, and Jeremy Shockey during his career. How are they not offensive playmakers? The problem is Eli doesn't have a "leader" mentality. When you have loud, outspoken teammates, the QB needs to be louder. Not necessarily outspoken, but he has to be able to grab their attention and hsut them up. Eli isn't a leader. If he wasn't in New York and if he didn't play with so many loudmouths, he'd probably be okay. And for a 4th-year starter with the last name Manning, he certainly isn't improving much. Since his first full season as a starter (2005), his yards and average have decreased while his TDs and INTs have leveled off. The only improvement has been completion %. He's just not a very good QB, especially with that last name.

Except for Toomer, who had a serious knee injury last season, the people you listed are self-serving ego maniacs (as is Michael Strahan) which are the kinds of people you DON'T want on your team.

Remember Eli throwing all those picks against the Panthers in the playoffs? Where was Burress? JOGGING through his routes. Compare him to the types of players Payton plays with -Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, who don't take downs off or go through the motions because a game is lost.

Peyton threw six picks against the Chargers two weeks ago, did you see the Colts quit? I didn't. But the Giants sure laid it down against the Vikings.

Eli has become more of a leader once Tiki Barber retired (again, a self-serving move to announce it during the season), and he will be a better quarterback/leader once the Giants rid themselves of Burress, Strahan (who dangled his immature "holdout" during the entire Giants training camp) and especially Shockey -who could use a lesson in professionalism from players like Jason Witten, Todd Heap and Tony Gonzales -all of whom have done more with less, than Shockey.

Eli's only big mistake is he shouldn't have orchestrated that trade with San Diego. He would have been a far more successful quarterback over there, where there are few egos (just an egotist for a GM in A.J. Smith).

 

[Scott B]

. He's just not a very good QB, especially with that last name.

with the exception that after playing 50 NFL games, his W/L record is the exact same as the other Manning currently playing after his first 50 games

 

[ChrisKreager]

I know Drew got some heat when he was turning the ball over during the 0-4 start and the losses to the Rams and Texans...

but wow.

Your own GM?

I can't imagine if that happened to Drew if he had a bad game.

Also, Brees may have INT issues, but at least they aren't returned for touchdowns.

 

[NPs6724]

with the exception that after playing 50 NFL games, his W/L record is the exact same as the other Manning currently playing after his first 50 games

And in no way, shape, or form is the QB 100% responsible for a win or a loss. W-L records for QBs is extremely overrated.

 

[Scott B]

W-L records for QBs is extremely overrated.

if you are talking about fantasy football, I agree with you 100%. If you are talking about real football, I don't think I've ever disagreed with a statement on this board more than that one. And I find it hard to believe that you think personal stats are more important that W's and L's.

 

[NPs6724]

if you are talking about fantasy football, I agree with you 100%. If you are talking about real football, I don't think I've ever disagreed with a statement on this board more than that one. And I find it hard to believe that you think personal stats are more important that W's and L's.

Well, if you had read the post, it says nothing about personal stats being better than Ws and Ls. But the W-L record of a QB is no indication of how good the QB is. You can be a decent QB on a great defensive team (Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson) and have a very good W-L record. It still doesn't mean you're a good QB. While Eli and Peyton may have identical records through their first 50 games, the year before Peyton was drafted the Colts were 3-13. In Peyton's rookie year, in which he started every game, they were 3-13. Since then they've won 10 or more games in every season but 1. Ws and Ls are a TEAM stat. Remember the Saints in 2002? You know, the 3rd-best scoring offense in the NFL that went 9-7 because the defense was 26th in points allowed? Brooks had a very good year, but we lost 7 because our defense couldn't stop anyone. That same year, the Buccaneers won the Super Bowl with an offense that was 18th in points and a defense 1st in points AND yards. Would you really say Brad Johnson was the reason for the 12-4 regular season record and their playoff run? The facts still remain, Eli has been an average QB even with several offensive playmakers, including a RB who had 1800 rushing yards. Again, Ws and Ls are most important, but still a TEAM stat that doesn't and never has accurately judged the talent of a QB. Too many good QB have had bad teams around them and too many adequate (at best) QBs have been on stellar teams that carried them to victories.

 

['79 Saints]

Again, you are assuming these "playmakers" on the Giants put it out every week.. they didn't. Take a good look at the Saints/Gaints game from last season -you want to put it all on Manning? What about that sorry defense? Again, where was Shockey? Where were these "playmakers"? Barber took Christmas Eve off, and decided to play against the Redskins the following week.

Indeed, based on your comment about W/L records of quarterbacks, if the Giants were as talented as is being alleged, then a medicore quarterback should have been able to lead this team to victory.

Put Eli on a team with a solid coach and some playmakers with heart, and you see a much better quarterback.

It's the GM's fault Eli looks "skittish". He failed to surround him with good, talented players.

 

[NPs6724]

Again, you are assuming these "playmakers" on the Giants put it out every week.. they didn't. Take a good look at the Saints/Gaints game from last season -you want to put it all on Manning? What about that sorry defense? Again, where was Shockey? Where were these "playmakers"? Barber took Christmas Eve off, and decided to play against the Redskins the following week.

Indeed, based on your comment about W/L records of quarterbacks, if the Giants were as talented as is being alleged, then a medicore quarterback should have been able to lead this team to victory.

Put Eli on a team with a solid coach and some playmakers with heart, and you see a much better quarterback.

It's the GM's fault Eli looks "skittish". He failed to surround him with good, talented players.

So basically, when Eli does poorly it's never his fault. His 9-for-25 performance against the Saints most definitely wasn't his fault. Burress had nothing to do with 55 of Eli's 74 passing yards on 1 play. Never mind that Barber averaged 4.4 per carry that game. It was his WR's fault he missed on 16 passes.

His #1 WR has been top ten in receiving yards in 2005, receiving TDs in 2006 and 2007, and rushing/receiving TDs in 2007. His former #1 RB has been top ten in rushes in 2005 and 2006, rushing yards in 2005 and 2006, rushing TDs in 2005, yards from scrimmage in 2005 and 2006, and rushing/receiving TDs in 2005. That same RB is 23rd all-time in rushes, 18th in rushing yards, 43rd in rushing TDs, and 10th all-time in yards from scrimmage. His #2 WR is 43rd all-time in total receptions. His #1 TE is on his way to his third consecutive year with 60+ receptions. But yeah, it's all their faults Eli isn't a top QB. It's not his fault for 59 career INTs through 50 career starts.

You say his playmakers don't put it out every week, but does Eli? I've seen him act the exact same way during games. That whole team is that way. When the going gets tough, the team falls apart. The WHOLE team, including Eli.

And let's quit comparing Eli and Peyton through their first 50 games. Eli showed up and had Barber, Burress, Shockey, and Toomer. Who did Peyton have as a rookie? Marshall Faulk and a decent Marvin Harrison. In Peyton's second year, who did he have? Rookie Edgerrin James and an exploding Marvin Harrison. The same thing for Year 3. But see, Peyton IMPROVED every year. Eli has regressed since his first full season starting.

 

[Scott B]

Well, if you had read the post, it says nothing about personal stats being better than Ws and Ls. But the W-L record of a QB is no indication of how good the QB is. You can be a decent QB on a great defensive team (Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson) and have a very good W-L record. It still doesn't mean you're a good QB. While Eli and Peyton may have identical records through their first 50 games, the year before Peyton was drafted the Colts were 3-13. In Peyton's rookie year, in which he started every game, they were 3-13. Since then they've won 10 or more games in every season but 1. Ws and Ls are a TEAM stat. Remember the Saints in 2002? You know, the 3rd-best scoring offense in the NFL that went 9-7 because the defense was 26th in points allowed? Brooks had a very good year, but we lost 7 because our defense couldn't stop anyone. That same year, the Buccaneers won the Super Bowl with an offense that was 18th in points and a defense 1st in points AND yards. Would you really say Brad Johnson was the reason for the 12-4 regular season record and their playoff run? The facts still remain, Eli has been an average QB even with several offensive playmakers, including a RB who had 1800 rushing yards. Again, Ws and Ls are most important, but still a TEAM stat that doesn't and never has accurately judged the talent of a QB. Too many good QB have had bad teams around them and too many adequate (at best) QBs have been on stellar teams that carried them to victories.

Eli Manning's first full year as a starter was 2005

2005-NYG 11-5 went to playoffs Eli threw 24 TD 17 INT
Offense ranked 4th in NFL, Defense ranked 24th in NFL
Eli had Tiki Barber rushing for 1860 yards

2006-NYG 8-8 went to playoffs Eli threw 24 TD 18 INT
Offense ranked 14th in NFL, Defense ranked 25th in NFL
Tiki Barber announces retirement middle of season, causes drama, still rushes for 1600 yards

2007-NYG 7-4 probable playoff team Eli threw 16 TD 15 INT
Offense ranked 18th in NFL, Defense ranked 7th in NFL
No Tiki Barber

Is Eli regressing, or is his game suffering because he doesnt have a 1600 plus yard running back this year? Would you say Drew Brees is regressing this year, or would you say he is just having a bad year?

Team sport? Eli's first two seasons, his defense has been bottom of the league, yet team still made playoffs both seasons. Explain how they accomplished this despite Eli Manning.

His stats were almost identical for both playoff seasons, so, no regression there. Now based on your first post of this thread, where you are comparing Eli to his brother, I would say that your conclusions that he is not a good quarterback comparatively is extremely unfair, particularly since you can say that for just about anyone not named Brady, Romo, or Palmer.

 

[NPs6724]

Eli Manning's first full year as a starter was 2005

2005-NYG 11-5 went to playoffs Eli threw 24 TD 17 INT
Offense ranked 4th in NFL, Defense ranked 24th in NFL
Eli had Tiki Barber rushing for 1860 yards

2006-NYG 8-8 went to playoffs Eli threw 24 TD 18 INT
Offense ranked 14th in NFL, Defense ranked 25th in NFL
Tiki Barber announces retirement middle of season, causes drama, still rushes for 1600 yards

2007-NYG 7-4 probable playoff team Eli threw 16 TD 15 INT
Offense ranked 18th in NFL, Defense ranked 7th in NFL
No Tiki Barber

Is Eli regressing, or is his game suffering because he doesnt have a 1600 plus yard running back this year? Would you say Drew Brees is regressing this year, or would you say he is just having a bad year?

Team sport? Eli's first two seasons, his defense has been bottom of the league, yet team still made playoffs both seasons. Explain how they accomplished this despite Eli Manning.

His stats were almost identical for both playoff seasons, so, no regression there. Now based on your first post of this thread, where you are comparing Eli to his brother, I would say that your conclusions that he is not a good quarterback comparatively is extremely unfair, particularly since you can say that for just about anyone not named Brady, Romo, or Palmer.

I'm not comparing Eli to Peyton. You were comparing their W-L record. I was contrasting their situations. Peyton began with little while Eli began with a lot. I just believe that BECAUSE his last name is Manning more is expected of him. I still think he is average. Again, I'm not saying the Giants win despite Eli, just pointing out W-L record for a QB is an overrated stat, which you were bringing up. But the guy is in his 3rd full year as a starter, his 4th season, and his INTs are still close to 20. They aren't going down at all. Right now, he's last in INTs, tied with Palmer and Brees. In 2006, he was 28th, tied with Favre. In 2005, he was 31st, tied with Bledsoe and Brooks. Anyone who has watched a Saint game this year knows, at least 4 of Brees' INTs were WRs who literally put it in the hands of the defense.

His stats are NOT identical for their 2 playoff seasons or anywhere else. The only identical stats are TDs and INTs. His passing yards are down, his yards per completion are down, and right now his TDs and INTs are 1 apart (16 to 15). If you average out his 2007 numbers, his INTs would actually be higher than his career-high. As for the playoffs, that's part of his problem as well. He's been less-than-average in January. 274 passing yards on 45 attempts, 2 TDs, 4 INTs.

Fact is, if his last name wasn't Manning no one would pay attention to him. I still feel he is a bad leader who can't take control when needed. He's just too quiet. And in NY, it's highlighted even more. Most people care about him based on his name, not his performance. Think of it this way: forget about Brees' year last year. It didn't happen. Multiply Brees' 2007 performance by 3 and you have Eli's career. Color me unimpressed.

 

[Scott B]

Congrats to Eli. Maybe we will stop hearing about how much of a mediocre QB he is.

 

[Phenomkart35]

Congrat to Eli, your allright kid.

 

[Skip Bayless]

u just won my respect

congrats eli

thank u for beating that old hag