NFL cheerleader saga continues (3 Viewers)

[MLU]

Why do they even have cheerleaders?

 

[Ambush]

Implied sense of entitlement? No sir.

I think of women way different than many of you obviously.

1. I do not condone treating woman like a piece of meat. I don’t do it, I don’t allow it in my home or at any of my businesses.

2. Women have the power to say no. They don’t need a bunch of white knights on a keyboard telling them what hey can and can’t do.

3. Many of these girls want these jobs. If they don’t want them, there is a line of them that do.

4. My immediate family deals within entertainment circles. We have had students except jobs that we didn’t morally agree with. However, it’s not my choice, it’s the Dancers choice.
And many have also said NO. To act as if they can’t is very misogynistic.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Implied sense of entitlement? No sir.

I think of women way different than many of you obviously.

1. I do not condone treating woman like a piece of meat. I don’t do it, I don’t allow it in my home or at any of my businesses.

2. Women have the power to say no. They don’t need a bunch of white knights on a keyboard telling them what hey can and can’t do.

3. Many of these girls want these jobs. If they don’t want them, there is a line of them that do.

4. My immediate family deals within entertainment circles. We have had students except jobs that we didn’t morally agree with. However, it’s not my choice, it’s the Dancers choice.
And many have also said NO. To act as if they can’t is very misogynistic.

My point was more that there is a lot more to these jobs than what is advertised, and I'd say some of it is probably illegal.

I have no issues with the jobs. I don't think the girls do either. But the rules, how management treats them, how the "company" doesn't have their back... If a girl a Twin Peaks was molested by a customer, that guy would be kicked out of the place.

 

[RazorOye]

Implied sense of entitlement? No sir.

you're right, it was more than implied. These women enter into these professions and they will be groped and abused and harassed because they should expect this treatment. Nowhere did you address the men or the responses of the businesses (run by men)

I think of women way different than many of you obviously.

you'll get no argument from me on that point... and I'm okay with that

1. I do not condone treating woman like a piece of meat. I don’t do it, I don’t allow it in my home or at any of my businesses.

well, if you espouse this attitude, how would you even know? There might well be harassment and you have no idea and if you run around talking about how women deserve this treatment, without addressing any of the men, it's possible that they are fearful of reporting it.

If you have businesses with thousands of people, as you've claimed, then harassment has happened. If it hasn't been reported, that might say something about how comfortable they feel coming forward.

So, you can say you don't allow it, but that's not the same as it not happening. And if you point to a lack of reports, well, that doesn't mean it's not happening either.

2. Women have the power to say no. They don’t need a bunch of white knights on a keyboard telling them what hey can and can’t do.

or, alternatively, in a workplace where their is a gender imbalance when it comes to power, the less powerful need the more powerful to acknowledge them, protect them. Look at the cheerleaders in the article who suffered physical violations and indignity and their bosses did nothing.

It's not about being a white knight.

But again, if this attitude carries over into how you run your businesses, I'm not surprised that there aren't any/many reports of harassment. It's possible they don't feel they have someone in their corner. It happens at a lot of work places.

3. Many of these girls want these jobs. If they don’t want them, there is a line of them that do.

you type things like this thinking you're making it better, I imagine. But I think you're making it worse. It's a dismissive and disposable attitude toward these girls and if you employ similarly, then that might well extend to your employees.

4. My immediate family deals within entertainment circles. We have had students except jobs that we didn’t morally agree with. However, it’s not my choice, it’s the Dancers choice.
And many have also said NO. To act as if they can’t is very misogynistic.

you don't seem to understand how power works. Or misogyny.

and that's unfortunate for someone in a position of administration and/or authority

 

[RazorOye]

But the rules, how management treats them, how the "company" doesn't have their back... If a girl a Twin Peaks was molested by a customer, that guy would be kicked out of the place.

of course they should, but you're trying to point that out to someone who doesn't care about how the girls are treated and doesn't seem to care whether or not the male offenders are dealt with - the women should know this, they should expect it, because the men are entitled enough to feel they have a right to act toward these women however they want.

The problem isn't the job or the men who grope them or their bosses who don't protect them. It's the women's job for taking the job.

 

[Zardnok]

Well, I could say:
"911, what is your Emergency?"
"We have some scantly clad young ladies dancing around in the parking lot by the tailgate."

Or I could say:
"Lighten up Francis"

Let me see if I can relate this to something you understand.

Say for example, you enjoy music and watching naked ladies dance. You get a job as a DJ for a Gentlemans club where the job description states you will play music and hype the dancers. Seems like a great gig that most men would love to have. Unfortunately after you get the job, you are told it also involves cleaning the bathrooms and mopping up puke. You complain to the manager and he ignores you. You complain to the owner and he threatens to fire you if you don't mop up puke. What did you expect? You work at a bar, people get drunk, drunk people pee and puke. There are tons of men that would love to get paid to play music and oggle dancers all night.

Someone had diarrhea; go clean the bathroom Joe.

 

[Joe OKC]

Let me see if I can relate this to something you understand.

Say for example, you enjoy music and watching naked ladies dance. You get a job as a DJ for a Gentlemans club where the job description states you will play music and hype the dancers. Seems like a great gig that most men would love to have. Unfortunately after you get the job, you are told it also involves cleaning the bathrooms and mopping up puke. You complain to the manager and he ignores you. You complain to the owner and he threatens to fire you if you don't mop up puke. What did you expect? You work at a bar, people get drunk, drunk people pee and puke. There are tons of men that would love to get paid to play music and oggle dancers all night.

Someone had diarrhea; go clean the bathroom Joe.

WTF?

 

[dtc]

What the Fork!?

I really don't understand why. It's not stupid and it's certainly not a personal attack.

I surely don't understand why you're calling out this post or objecting to the analogy, but maybe it is stupid and I am confused. Made perfect sense to me.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I really don't understand why. It's not stupid and it's certainly not a personal attack.

I surely don't understand why you're calling out this post or objecting to the analogy, but maybe it is stupid and I am confused. Made perfect sense to me.

my guess was that he already does that stuff
he had some stories in Chuck's (i think) bathroom thread

 

[wnelson]

I think they should all be discontinued. All teams. When the women on the other 30 teams get clipped there will be a good discussion on the topic

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I get the analogy, but I don't even think you need to stretch it that far. Keep everything pretty much the same, just put "DJ" instead of "dancer" or "shot girl"

He works in a strip club. A place where guys periodically get drunk and grope the employees. He gets cornered and groped by a couple of drunks dudes. Hands put all over him. Hands in places where they shouldn't be. Constant hypersexualized comments, and when he asks them to stop, they don't. He asks the bouncer to do something, but the bouncer doesn't. He asks the manager to do something. Manager does nothing. It becomes even more physical in nature,

Stahp

 

[Joe OKC]

Yes... I had a chance to think about it... I'm cool..

My only post was a stab at humor about a crazy old lady calling the cops on the cheerleaders... That's it... I made no comments either way... I gotta run now... Be back later.

 

[RetroMcBananaFace]

Yes... I had a chance to think about it... I'm cool..

My only post was a stab at humor about a crazy old lady calling the cops on the cheerleaders... That's it... I made no comments either way... I gotta run now... Be back later.

You added the second part like 6 hours later. Until that point the only thing I saw was the following:

"Great... Now all we need is some goody good tree hugger to come along and try to save these ladies from their plight of doom..."

Which to me, implies that anyone concerned with women being molested by these yahoos is a "goody good tree hugger" and by the way, "tree hugger" is an obvious pejorative.

Now, I suppose I could "lighten up Francis," but you're the one who decided to interject this particular level of snark into the thread for, from what I can tell, is no apparent reason other than a bullshirt drive-by post aimed at supposed "tree huggers," so don't be all surprised and innocent when somebody calls you out for acting an arse.

Words matter.

 

[RazorOye]

Which to me, implies that anyone concerned with women being molested by these yahoos is a "goody good tree hugger" and by the way, "tree hugger" is an obvious pejorative.

Now, I suppose I could "lighten up Francis," but you're the one who decided to interject this particular level of snark into the thread for, from what I can tell, is no apparent reason other than a bullshirt drive-by post aimed at supposed "tree huggers," so don't be all surprised and innocent when somebody calls you out for acting an arse.

Words matter.

this sentiment has come up more than once and I don't think it's helpful. In fact, I think it can be potentially harmful.

These accusations of people running around looking to save damsels in distress is the way to frame this if you want to dismiss it. And sure, it's individually up to that person if he wants to dismiss it or diminish it or marginalize it.

But I don't think it's "save ladies from the plight of doom" or "white knighting." If you identify within a group that has power and you seek to help a group that lacks power, that seems reasonable. In fact, it seems necessary for there to be change.

Labor laws protecting children. Women's suffrage. Civil Rights. Unfairly incarcerated people. And so on. These are all marginalized groups who, in order to improve their marginalization, needed the help of people in power (and, in most cases, white dudes). Further, to say that doesn't mean that people in these groups have no agency, no power, no voice.

These things can both be true. They have voice and autonomy and power in some cases. But that power typically isn't enough to swing legislation or popular opinion or protections under the law or etc.

I think it's a really important point that needs to be made.

 

[Ambush]

My point was more that there is a lot more to these jobs than what is advertised, and I'd say some of it is probably illegal.

I have no issues with the jobs. I don't think the girls do either. But the rules, how management treats them, how the "company" doesn't have their back... If a girl a Twin Peaks was molested by a customer, that guy would be kicked out of the place.

They wouldn’t be kicked out of visions.