No Way Rizzi can be our HC (16 Viewers)

[DSnfla]

And whoever was responsible for drafting Fuaga needs to make every selection this next draft

I was always ok with them trading up to get someone because when you think about it the cost is small at that particular juncture in time. Every pick no matter where they are taken is essentially a 50/50 toss up so if you are sure you know the potential draftee isn't going to make it back to you next round then pulling the trigger for some future 50/50 draft selection is not too terribly steep.

However, when you look at our hit rate on guys we traded up to get its plain as day; trading up isn't working for us. We are missing on picks and compounding the problem by having less picks because we traded up.

The 2020 draft is a perfect example and long enough ago to have a tangible impact we can see. We ended up with:
Round 1 • Pick 24 (24) • Center/Guard • Cesar Ruiz
Round 3 • Pick 10 (74) • Outside Linebacker • Zack Baun
Round 3 • Pick 41 (105) • Tight End • Adam Trautman
Round 7 • Pick 26 (240) • Tight End • Tommy Stevens

To get Baun we trade up 14 selections which costs us our 3rd round pick (#88), a 2021 3rd round selection and a 7th round pick.

To get Trautman we trade back into the 3rd round which essentially was a move up of 25 selections for a cost of our 4th round pick, our 6th round pick and both of the 7th round selections we had.

To get Stevens in the 7th round (the 6th to last pick of the entire draft) we traded away our 2021 6th round draft pick.

Zack Baun isn't with the team anymore and is lighting it up for Philly and Trautman is an ok TE also not with the team anymore but Denver's starting TE and Tommy Stevens is out of the NFL playing in Canada. All 3 guys were decent-ish picks taken at about where they should have went ... but to get 3 guys the total cost to us was 5 additional guys.

Think about that for a moment to get 3 players in a draft where each pick/player is a 50/50 shot in the dark we gave up 5 additional players we could have drafted, who knows what that could have turned into.

The moves sting worse when we take 3 1/2 years to develop Baun who blossoms at the end of his last year here but because we are forever cash strapped we can't keep him so now we get to watch him light it up in Philly. Trautman never really could take a step in his development but the trade for him alone cost us 3 of the 5 missing players. Stevens doesn't really matter outside of the fact that if we had our 2021 6th round pick who knows we could have picked a guy like say Isaiah McDuffie who has blossomed into a nice LB for the Packers.

It works both ways, We traded up to get AK , Adebo , McCoy , Kool-Aid

 

[DSnfla]

I'm not sure I'd say that Loomis isn't at "football guy' after 20 plus years as an NFL GM, but he's certainly not a talent evaluation guy or at least not an expert in talent evaluation.

Anyway, I agree that one of the things they need to find is a HC that is good at evaluating talent and good in the draft because Loomis clearly leans heavily on the HC to make those decisions and evaluate the players they are going to pick in the draft.

Ideally Loomis moves up to an executive VP role and then bring in a new young GM with talent evaluation chops, but i don't think Loomis is yet ready to be put out to pasture. Then again with the way Mrs. B moved on DA, maybe she doesn't care if Mickey is ready or not?

I think that people are wrong in thinking that Mrs. B. came in swinging her purse and demanding that DA be fired immediately. I think it was as ML said a consensus decision. I think that as Underhill said that ML was going to fire DA at the end of the season because he like Tom didn't think there was that much benefit in firing a HC mid season.

 

[DSnfla]

Loomis has said that they make the decisions by consensus of the HC, Ireland, and Loomis. He said that they have almost always disagreed and when that happens he has to make the final call. He also said that Ireland more or less runs the later rounds, I think 3 to 7.

That being said, I think it's clear that Payton basically got whoever he wanted. I mean he made that clear regarding Mahomes and ever other pick that they made that he gushed about. How if worked with DA, I don't really known, but I suspect even DA mostly got who he wanted.

I think also that especially on defense that DA was rigid on the prototype players he wanted DL had to be this size and weight so maybe he had Ireland overlook those that didn't fit the prototype which could have been a mistake

 

[solarbear88]

So a team that beat us by several scores last year, beat us by a single score this year under Rizzi. We kept their big names in check and even kept them from running the ball.

Our team played hard all game and had a TD called back. We lost our most important player to injury. We should have won.

Somehow this disqualifies Rizzi as a coaching canditate.

I am confused.

 

[DSnfla]

Getting back to the title of this thread. I don't think this game should have any negative effects on Rizzi as a HC candidate. My thoughts on Rizzi as HC are well known, I thought he did a pretty good job with what he had to work with especially with McCoy out. The fake punt was great we got the PI but if the interference had not have happened it would have been successful. All the 4th down plays except for the last one that didn't work were good calls and going for it was the right and only call to make. Time mgt on the last drive was the right way to go. Let's see how he does in the last 5 games

 

[NUSaintsfan]

You're knocking of Kubiak is simply ridiculous. He's had a patchwork OL with 2 or of the starters and some backup out of the lineup 90% of the games. He's been without 1 or 2 of his starting starting WRs for more than half the games. There was no TH for half the games. AND no starting QB for 4 games. and even when Shaheed and Olave were healthy they were not even a top 20 WR duo. Bill Walsh could not have done better. SMH

I'm questioning his ability to call plays consistently. NOBODY is beyond reproach and anyone who thinks otherwise is the only one that is ridiculous.

All you've done is make excuses for why Kubiak cannot do his job without an optimal scenario while also highlighting the ineptitude of the front office. If you need perfect conditions to excel in a profession or life for that matter, then you aren't going to excel.

 

[meily]

I'm questioning his ability to call plays consistently. NOBODY is beyond reproach and anyone who thinks otherwise is the only one that is ridiculous.

All you've done is make excuses for why Kubiak cannot do his job without an optimal scenario while also highlighting the ineptitude of the front office. If you need perfect conditions to excel in a profession or life for that matter, then you aren't going to excel.

Every week you have a skill position player out and a PS player in, you only have one running back and your supposed to call a dynamic offensive game, now we all seen how the offense looked in the beginning of the year when he had healthy players to how the offense is now, Kubiak to me has done a good job of creating plays the get guys open, I think this offensive scheme works but it will work even better when he has a healthy array of talent and not just Taysom Hill and Alvin Kamara.

 

[St. Widge]

Every week you have a skill position player out and a PS player in, you only have one running back and your supposed to call a dynamic offensive game, now we all seen how the offense looked in the beginning of the year when he had healthy players to how the offense is now, Kubiak to me has done a good job of creating plays the get guys open, I think this offensive scheme works but it will work even better when he has a healthy array of talent and not just Taysom Hill and Alvin Kamara.

My concern with Kubiak is that he appears to call inventive and diverse plays for the first 10 or 15 scripted plays but he becomes stale and conservative when the script is done and he starts calling plays in the moment. Obviously, those calls can be made and run despite the injuries since he does it with the scripted plays so it seems that he has a conservative steak that takes over once he is calling plays off the script. This week was an example of that. They didn't finish on the first two drives, but the play calling was diverse and kept the Rams guessing which resulted in moving the ball down the field. That seemed to end once he was done with the scripted plays.

I think Kubiak is a solid OC, but I don't think he's anything special as a play caller. He may be one of those guys who is great at designing an offensive scheme but is only an average play caller. I'd be fine if he came back as OC under a defensive HC or Rizzi, but I'd probably be happier if we hired an offensive minded OC that calls a less conservative game or used an offensive scheme more from the McVay line than the Shanahan line.

 

[DaveXA]

My concern with Kubiak is that he appears to call inventive and diverse plays for the first 10 or 15 scripted plays but he becomes stale and conservative when the script is done and he starts calling plays in the moment. Obviously, those calls can be made and run despite the injuries since he does it with the scripted plays so it seems that he has a conservative steak that takes over once he is calling plays off the script. This week was an example of that. They didn't finish on the first two drives, but the play calling was diverse and kept the Rams guessing which resulted in moving the ball down the field. That seemed to end once he was done with the scripted plays.

I think Kubiak is a solid OC, but I don't think he's anything special as a play caller. He may be one of those guys who is great at designing an offensive scheme but is only an average play caller. I'd be fine if he came back as OC under a defensive HC or Rizzi, but I'd probably be happier if we hired an offensive minded OC that calls a less conservative game or used an offensive scheme more from the McVay line than the Shanahan line.

I really think part of the issue is he's a relatively young coach and needs time to develop. I'd give him at least 2 years and see if he can grow into the role.