No Way Rizzi can be our HC (30 Viewers)

[sfidc3]

Loomis has said that they make the decisions by consensus of the HC, Ireland, and Loomis. He said that they have almost always disagreed and when that happens he has to make the final call. He also said that Ireland more or less runs the later rounds, I think 3 to 7.

That being said, I think it's clear that Payton basically got whoever he wanted. I mean he made that clear regarding Mahomes and ever other pick that they made that he gushed about. How if worked with DA, I don't really known, but I suspect even DA mostly got who he wanted.

Additionally, I've heard that Ireland and staff provide a short list of players they want in every draft position, the players have to meet certain metrics for the specific position.....then they have decisions by consensus.....

 

[St. Widge]

Additionally, I've heard that Ireland and staff provide a short list of players they want in every draft position, the players have to meet certain metrics for the specific position.....then they have decisions by consensus.....

Yep. The scouting staff with Ireland gives them the players that fit the metrics (and those that they like that don't quite fit the metrics) and then Ireland, Loomis, and the HC stack the board by consensus and then make the picks by consensus.

It's really hard for we as fans, or the media for that matter, to know if the issues are with the scouts and scouting director (Ireland) who provide the info, the group that is stacking the board, or the final decision on the picks. I personally think a lot of the problem is Ireland and the HC because I think Loomis gives both Ireland and whoever is HC mostly free reign in talent evaluation and the draft, but I don't know for sure. Giving the HC the power mostly worked with Payton, but it really only worked with CBs for DA.

At any rate, I do know that the trading up all the time needs to stop. It made sense when you had a stacked roster and only maybe 3 or 4 open spots for draft picks to fill, but at this point we lack depth across the board and need starters or upgrades at several spots so we really need big draft classes to make up for the lack of cap space right now. And frankly, the way the Saints work the cap, spending most of their space to sign their own players and not being big players in free agency, it didn't make a huge amount of sense to me even when they had a stacked roster.

 

[lilvipa221]

Read my lips; CAP SPACE IS NOT GOD. I truly don't think you know what a HC candidate looks for. 1st and foremost is what kind of owner /FO does the team have? Will get all the support I need to win ? Saints owner/FO = YES. Do they have a QB that I can win with right away? Saints = YES. Are there some young players that I can build with? Saints = Olave, Shaheed, a young up and coming OL, Taylor, Werner,Bresse, Kool-Aid, Adebo,. Do they have a group of vets that can be counted on? Saints =YES, Mathieu, DD, AK , TH

A QB that you can win with but has a 12 year career 45% win percentage......hilarious

 

[AARPSaint]

Yep. The scouting staff with Ireland gives them the players that fit the metrics (and those that they like that don't quite fit the metrics) and then Ireland, Loomis, and the HC stack the board by consensus and then make the picks by consensus.

It's really hard for we as fans, or the media for that matter, to know if the issues are with the scouts and scouting director (Ireland) who provide the info, the group that is stacking the board, or the final decision on the picks. I personally think a lot of the problem is Ireland and the HC because I think Loomis gives both Ireland and whoever is HC mostly free reign in talent evaluation and the draft, but I don't know for sure. Giving the HC the power mostly worked with Payton, but it really only worked with CBs for DA.

At any rate, I do know that the trading up all the time needs to stop. It made sense when you had a stacked roster and only maybe 3 or 4 open spots for draft picks to fill, but at this point we lack depth across the board and need starters or upgrades at several spots so we really need big draft classes to make up for the lack of cap space right now. And frankly, the way the Saints work the cap, spending most of their space to sign their own players and not being big players in free agency, it didn't make a huge amount of sense to me even when they had a stacked roster.

Well, that post saved me a lot of typing. I want to know, but never will know, which scouts are responsible for which players: Fuaga on the positive side and Davenport and Turner on the negative side, just to name a few examples.
The last paragraph is incredibly spot on. Trading up needs to stop. Period.

 

[DaveXA]

A QB that you can win with but has a 12 year career 45% win percentage......hilarious

Chicken/egg thing...bad teams or bad qb? I tend to think the former, but hey, to each their own.

 

[St. Widge]

Chicken/egg thing...bad teams or bad qb? I tend to think the former, but hey, to each their own.

I agree and I don't think wins and losses are a QB stat. They are a team stat. Otherwise Joe Burrow is a barely above average QB because his is 33-30-1 in his NFL career. That's a 51% win percentage which is worse than Mitchell Trubisky with a 52.5% win percentage and Kenny Pickett with a 58.2% win percentage. Nobody really thinks Trubisky or Pickett are better than Burrow, right?

 

[DaveXA]

I agree and I don't think wins and losses are a QB stat. They are a team stat. Otherwise Joe Burrow is a barely above average QB because his is 33-30-1 in his NFL career. That's a 51% win percentage which is worse than Mitchell Trubisky with a 52.5% win percentage and Kenny Pickett with a 58.2% win percentage. Nobody really thinks Trubisky or Pickett are better than Burrow, right?

Right? indeed.

 

[RaginCajun83]

Well, that post saved me a lot of typing. I want to know, but never will know, which scouts are responsible for which players: Fuaga on the positive side and Davenport and Turner on the negative side, just to name a few examples.
The last paragraph is incredibly spot on. Trading up needs to stop. Period.

And whoever was responsible for drafting Fuaga needs to make every selection this next draft

 

[Kingston]

Yep. The scouting staff with Ireland gives them the players that fit the metrics (and those that they like that don't quite fit the metrics) and then Ireland, Loomis, and the HC stack the board by consensus and then make the picks by consensus.

It's really hard for we as fans, or the media for that matter, to know if the issues are with the scouts and scouting director (Ireland) who provide the info, the group that is stacking the board, or the final decision on the picks. I personally think a lot of the problem is Ireland and the HC because I think Loomis gives both Ireland and whoever is HC mostly free reign in talent evaluation and the draft, but I don't know for sure. Giving the HC the power mostly worked with Payton, but it really only worked with CBs for DA.

At any rate, I do know that the trading up all the time needs to stop. It made sense when you had a stacked roster and only maybe 3 or 4 open spots for draft picks to fill, but at this point we lack depth across the board and need starters or upgrades at several spots so we really need big draft classes to make up for the lack of cap space right now. And frankly, the way the Saints work the cap, spending most of their space to sign their own players and not being big players in free agency, it didn't make a huge amount of sense to me even when they had a stacked roster.

I was always ok with them trading up to get someone because when you think about it the cost is small at that particular juncture in time. Every pick no matter where they are taken is essentially a 50/50 toss up so if you are sure you know the potential draftee isn't going to make it back to you next round then pulling the trigger for some future 50/50 draft selection is not too terribly steep.

However, when you look at our hit rate on guys we traded up to get its plain as day; trading up isn't working for us. We are missing on picks and compounding the problem by having less picks because we traded up.

The 2020 draft is a perfect example and long enough ago to have a tangible impact we can see. We ended up with:
Round 1 • Pick 24 (24) • Center/Guard • Cesar Ruiz
Round 3 • Pick 10 (74) • Outside Linebacker • Zack Baun
Round 3 • Pick 41 (105) • Tight End • Adam Trautman
Round 7 • Pick 26 (240) • Tight End • Tommy Stevens

To get Baun we trade up 14 selections which costs us our 3rd round pick (#88), a 2021 3rd round selection and a 7th round pick.

To get Trautman we trade back into the 3rd round which essentially was a move up of 25 selections for a cost of our 4th round pick, our 6th round pick and both of the 7th round selections we had.

To get Stevens in the 7th round (the 6th to last pick of the entire draft) we traded away our 2021 6th round draft pick.

Zack Baun isn't with the team anymore and is lighting it up for Philly and Trautman is an ok TE also not with the team anymore but Denver's starting TE and Tommy Stevens is out of the NFL playing in Canada. All 3 guys were decent-ish picks taken at about where they should have went ... but to get 3 guys the total cost to us was 5 additional guys.

Think about that for a moment to get 3 players in a draft where each pick/player is a 50/50 shot in the dark we gave up 5 additional players we could have drafted, who knows what that could have turned into.

The moves sting worse when we take 3 1/2 years to develop Baun who blossoms at the end of his last year here but because we are forever cash strapped we can't keep him so now we get to watch him light it up in Philly. Trautman never really could take a step in his development but the trade for him alone cost us 3 of the 5 missing players. Stevens doesn't really matter outside of the fact that if we had our 2021 6th round pick who knows we could have picked a guy like say Isaiah McDuffie who has blossomed into a nice LB for the Packers.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Part of the problem is getting great physical talent, but can that talent play what you need them to play? How many years have the saints picked a linebacker who they tried to change positions to fit what they wanted to do? While people focus on certain things, coaching, fit, and tweaking a scheme to player strengths is important also. That’s where the saints, especially the last year of Payton and Allen is playing a player to his strengths.

 

[AARPSaint]

I was always ok with them trading up to get someone because when you think about it the cost is small at that particular juncture in time. Every pick no matter where they are taken is essentially a 50/50 toss up so if you are sure you know the potential draftee isn't going to make it back to you next round then pulling the trigger for some future 50/50 draft selection is not too terribly steep.

However, when you look at our hit rate on guys we traded up to get its plain as day; trading up isn't working for us. We are missing on picks and compounding the problem by having less picks because we traded up.

The 2020 draft is a perfect example and long enough ago to have a tangible impact we can see. We ended up with:
Round 1 • Pick 24 (24) • Center/Guard • Cesar Ruiz
Round 3 • Pick 10 (74) • Outside Linebacker • Zack Baun
Round 3 • Pick 41 (105) • Tight End • Adam Trautman
Round 7 • Pick 26 (240) • Tight End • Tommy Stevens

To get Baun we trade up 14 selections which costs us our 3rd round pick (#88), a 2021 3rd round selection and a 7th round pick.

To get Trautman we trade back into the 3rd round which essentially was a move up of 25 selections for a cost of our 4th round pick, our 6th round pick and both of the 7th round selections we had.

To get Stevens in the 7th round (the 6th to last pick of the entire draft) we traded away our 2021 6th round draft pick.

Zack Baun isn't with the team anymore and is lighting it up for Philly and Trautman is an ok TE also not with the team anymore but Denver's starting TE and Tommy Stevens is out of the NFL playing in Canada. All 3 guys were decent-ish picks taken at about where they should have went ... but to get 3 guys the total cost to us was 5 additional guys.

Think about that for a moment to get 3 players in a draft where each pick/player is a 50/50 shot in the dark we gave up 5 additional players we could have drafted, who knows what that could have turned into.

The moves sting worse when we take 3 1/2 years to develop Baun who blossoms at the end of his last year here but because we are forever cash strapped we can't keep him so now we get to watch him light it up in Philly. Trautman never really could take a step in his development but the trade for him alone cost us 3 of the 5 missing players. Stevens doesn't really matter outside of the fact that if we had our 2021 6th round pick who knows we could have picked a guy like say Isaiah McDuffie who has blossomed into a nice LB for the Packers.

That draft was the epitome of trading up at a ludicrous level. Good catch.

Then we have the awful 2018 draft.

 

[No2DC]

Oh it can be much worse and for many, many years. Look at Cleveland and the Jets to start with. Even Jacksonville.

I would rather try and stock up on top-tier talent than playing the mediocracy game every year.

 

[DSnfla]

A QB that you can win with but has a 12 year career 45% win percentage......hilarious

Are you really dense enough to think that the QB is the one solely responsible for the W/L record??? There is this thing called a defensive unit that the QB does not play on. Also when the QB hands the ball off to the RB, he has NOTHING to do with the play after that. Also do you know how many good to great QBs have played on bad teams?? From Archie Manning to Dan Fouts to Carson Palmer to Jeff George.

 

[DSnfla]

I agree and I don't think wins and losses are a QB stat. They are a team stat. Otherwise Joe Burrow is a barely above average QB because his is 33-30-1 in his NFL career. That's a 51% win percentage which is worse than Mitchell Trubisky with a 52.5% win percentage and Kenny Pickett with a 58.2% win percentage. Nobody really thinks Trubisky or Pickett are better than Burrow, right?

It's because these sports reporters have attached W/L records to QB and people that don't know better believe them The internet has made sports reporting like every thing else a double edge sword. It's great because we have so much more content at our fingertips but it gives every wannabe fan a reason to think they can do a Youtube channel or podcast and pretend to be an expert without even proving their credentials. And the worst part is the casual fan thinks that if it's on a youtube channel or a podcast then they must be an expert even though most of them never played a down of college or pro ball.

 

[DSnfla]

And whoever was responsible for drafting Fuaga needs to make every selection this next draft

I like Fuaga but he has not been as good as he was in the beginning of the yr. It was his bonehead mistake that cost us a TD on Sun. His PFF score is not really impressive. I think he will get better but he's got a bit to go to be a cornerstone of the OL