Officiating at the End of Game (1 Viewer)

[FullMonte]

Yep, I see that, but, that's not exactly the same situation that occured in this game is it? He wasn't spiking to "consume 1 second", he was spiking, incorrectly, to stop a clock that had much more time on it than 6 seconds. And they didn't run off 10 seconds of the clock either, like that rule says should be done. All they did was take away a down and move us back 10 yards. So, is it a rule that only works when and how they want it to? or is it a legitmate rule?

True, it seems clear as to why he was doing it, but that portion of the rule states "A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock." So, while it's true that wasn't what Winston was doing, the ruling explicitly says that the QB cannot stop the ball with the game clock stopped.

 

[Yatman]

yikes

Every penalty is delineated and explained and the result it garners.

as it is in 8.90:

RULING: Half over. Intentional grounding and a 10-second runoff.

There is nothing in the rulebook saying you can't spike the ball with the clock not running.

again, 8.90, next sentence:

A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock.

 

[slikk]

What was the penalty for when they gave ATL the phantom time out with 2 seconds left?

It wasn't a phantom call Lattimore pushing a player down in retaliation was pretty stupid. He did that before against teams and always gets flagged for it. Good thing even with the extra 15 it still was a 63 yard fg but that could have cost the team all there hard work.

 

[FullMonte]

Well shouldn’t there have been a 10 second run off

Hmmm...it would sure seem that way. Does the opposing team have the option of declining the 10-second runoff? If not, that raises another possibility....
15 seconds remaining with a stopped clock, no timeouts left, 3rd and whatever in the redzone. Spike the ball, take the 10 yard penalty, and run the clock down to 5 seconds. Kick the FG and win.

 

[Sailorsaint]

True, it seems clear as to why he was doing it, but that portion of the rule states "A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock." So, while it's true that wasn't what Winston was doing, the ruling explicitly says that the QB cannot stop the ball with the game clock stopped.

That rule's intention was to penalize someone for burning a second off of a close clock in order to end the half or game with a FG and time expired. It explains it quite well. It absolutely is not a rule that should be applied when there is 30 seconds left on the clock and there is no advantage to burning 1 second more off of it. It's what they call "a situational foul". This situation absolutely did not call for that penalty. And, even when they did use it, they only used the portion of the penalty that they wanted to, not all of it, or else they would have run 10 seconds off the clock, according to that rule.

 

[Sailorsaint]

Hmmm...it would sure seem that way. Does the opposing team have the option of declining the 10-second runoff? If not, that raises another possibility....
15 seconds remaining with a stopped clock, no timeouts left, 3rd and whatever in the redzone. Spike the ball, take the 10 yard penalty, and run the clock down to 5 seconds. Kick the FG and win.

I'm going to deep dive the rule book in a bit and see if the opposing team is allowed to decline the run off. If memory serves, the only team that can do that is the offending team and they have to give up a TO in order to do it.

 

[Rsquared]

You have to give it to the officials. They did all they could to help the falcons. It made me mad when the Saints were driving for their last TD, and they throw a screen to Kamara who got hit for a 6 yard loss and driven back 4 yards. For some reason, they count the yards he was driven back and spot the ball at the 48, making it 2nd and 20. We got a first down on the next play, but still.

Yes, this was the worst spot I've ever seen in the NFL. Like you said, we overcame it, but it was at least 5 yards further back than it should have been. I remember seeing another one too, but can't remember when. This officiating crew will not grade well...

 

[WhoDatSean]

So I’m guessing the bs calls are going to continue after Sean Payton has left the building? I thought the NFL just hated SP not the organization.

 

[FullMonte]

That rule's intention was to penalize someone for burning a second off of a close clock in order to end the half or game with a FG and time expired. It explains it quite well. It absolutely is not a rule that should be applied when there is 30 seconds left on the clock and there is no advantage to burning 1 second more off of it. It's what they call "a situational foul". This situation absolutely did not call for that penalty. And, even when they did use it, they only used the portion of the penalty that they wanted to, not all of it, or else they would have run 10 seconds off the clock, according to that rule.

I would agree with you 100%....except for that one sentence that says the QB can only spike the ball with the clock running. Maybe that sentence should be removed, but then we have to leave it up to the refs to determine the intention behind the QBs action.

 

[Sailorsaint]

It's really too bad Sean is retired....and was still on the competitions committee.....because I would bet that he would be bringing up this situation in the offseason meetings to get it cleared up and more precisely worded...and enforced appropriately.

 

[MJ in Calif]

I thought the holding call on Lattimore near the end was a joke. Ticky-tack doesn't even do it justice. What a bail out call.

 

[Rsquared]

That rule's intention was to penalize someone for burning a second off of a close clock in order to end the half or game with a FG and time expired. It explains it quite well. It absolutely is not a rule that should be applied when there is 30 seconds left on the clock and there is no advantage to burning 1 second more off of it. It's what they call "a situational foul". This situation absolutely did not call for that penalty. And, even when they did use it, they only used the portion of the penalty that they wanted to, not all of it, or else they would have run 10 seconds off the clock, according to that rule.

There's no 10 second run off when the clock is stopped. And the clock being stopped is what created the penalty.

 

[Yatman]

Patrick Mahomes explains fluke intentional grounding penalty

“Yeah, we’ve been over that situation. That was on me. The penalty no matter if we except or decline it, the clock stops. So technically, me spiking the ball like that is almost an intentional grounding penalty. At the same time, the refs said they hadn’t seen that happen in 40 years. I just thought, decline the penalty, the clock was going to roll, so tried to spike it and save the time out. (Chiefs T Mitchell) Schwartz actually told me you can’t do that, but I just thought we could get away with it, and we didn’t. It made a difference for sure at that half.”

 

[Sailorsaint]

I would agree with you 100%....except for that one sentence that says the QB can only spike the ball with the clock running. Maybe that sentence should be removed, but then we have to leave it up to the refs to determine the intention behind the QBs action.

Sure, a lot of the situational fouls require interpretation by the ref. And there are way too many of them. But, if that ref was so informed of the rules that he threw the flag immediately, he should also know that the intent of the rule is to prevent burning a second off the clock in order to end a half or game. He only interpreted one phrase in the rule, not the entire rule.