Officiating at the End of Game (2 Viewers)

[FullMonte]

im sure someone else has asked, sorry for not point-by-pointing the thread
but on Latt's penalty - it's a deadball foul with final clock at 0:00
is there a statute of limitations on when a foul can be called to add a play - like if their shaking hands and some player gives another player a swirlie, can refs call teams back out and mandate another play?

According to the refs as they called the penalty, the play ended with 2 seconds on the clock and Atlanta called a timeout. So, there were 2 seconds left when the penalty was called.

 

[FullMonte]

I know you did, I copied that link and the portion I just posted is copy/pasted from the link you provided.

I edited my post, so you may not have seen it, but the portion I quoted is on page 45 of that document, in the Accepted Rulings section, in the 2021 rules, it was A.R. 8.89.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

According to the refs as they called the penalty, the play ended with 2 seconds on the clock and Atlanta called a timeout. So, there were 2 seconds left when the penalty was called.

Do teams not have to signal for timeout?
In both of the last two plays, refs reset clock to where player is down - no one signals for TO

Also noticed in 1st half refs added a magic 2 seconds- player was down at :13 but :15 is when next play started
(Very glad Atl just let clock run down from :12 with one TO in their pocket)

 

[saintmike23]

Did you know the ref was an ex-49er and this was his first game as a ref? Maybe he was enjoying himself a little too much?

That’s a different guy on the same crew. The umpire or something

 

[Sailorsaint]

I edited my post, so you may not have seen it, but the portion I quoted is on page 45 of that document, in the Accepted Rulings section, in the 2021 rules, it was A.R. 8.89.

Yep, I see that, but, that's not exactly the same situation that occured in this game is it? He wasn't spiking to "consume 1 second", he was spiking, incorrectly, to stop a clock that had much more time on it than 6 seconds. And they didn't run off 10 seconds of the clock either, like that rule says should be done. All they did was take away a down and move us back 10 yards. So, is it a rule that only works when and how they want it to? or is it a legitmate rule?

 

[FullMonte]

Do teams not have to signal for timeout?
In both of the last two plays, refs reset clock to where player is down - no one signals for TO

Also noticed in 1st half refs added a magic 2 seconds- player was down at :13 but :15 is when next play started
(Very glad Atl just let clock run down from :12 with one TO in their pocket)

The ref said (I think) that Atlanta called a timeout. I seem to remember reading somewhere here that one of the replays showed the coach calling a timeout.

 

[sfidc3]

The most egregious was not reviewing what should have been a fumble by an ATL WR late in the 4th quarter….I thought the replay showed it was pretty clearly a catch and fumble and yet….no review….fark those refs….

 

[cajun1300]

Are you talking about seconds getting added to every snap? Or the phantom defensive holding? Or the spike intentional grounding? Or the personal foul at the end?

I was reminded of the 1972 Olympic gold medal basketball game!!

 

[saintmike23]

It's been posted a few times, not sure if it's in this thread.

(bold emphasis mine)

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2021%20-%20Rule%20Book%20%20Case%20Book.pdf

Well shouldn’t there have been a 10 second run off

 

[FullMonte]

Yep, I see that, but, that's not exactly the same situation that occured in this game is it? He wasn't spiking to "consume 1 second", he was spiking, incorrectly, to stop a clock that had much more time on it than 6 seconds. And they didn't run off 10 seconds of the clock either, like that rule says should be done. All they did was take away a down and move us back 10 yards. So, is it a rule that only works when and how they want it to? or is it a legitmate rule?

True, it seems clear as to why he was doing it, but that portion of the rule states "A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock." So, while it's true that wasn't what Winston was doing, the ruling explicitly says that the QB cannot stop the ball with the game clock stopped.

 

[Yatman]

yikes

Every penalty is delineated and explained and the result it garners.

as it is in 8.90:

RULING: Half over. Intentional grounding and a 10-second runoff.

There is nothing in the rulebook saying you can't spike the ball with the clock not running.

again, 8.90, next sentence:

A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock.

 

[slikk]

What was the penalty for when they gave ATL the phantom time out with 2 seconds left?

It wasn't a phantom call Lattimore pushing a player down in retaliation was pretty stupid. He did that before against teams and always gets flagged for it. Good thing even with the extra 15 it still was a 63 yard fg but that could have cost the team all there hard work.

 

[FullMonte]

Well shouldn’t there have been a 10 second run off

Hmmm...it would sure seem that way. Does the opposing team have the option of declining the 10-second runoff? If not, that raises another possibility....
15 seconds remaining with a stopped clock, no timeouts left, 3rd and whatever in the redzone. Spike the ball, take the 10 yard penalty, and run the clock down to 5 seconds. Kick the FG and win.

 

[Sailorsaint]

True, it seems clear as to why he was doing it, but that portion of the rule states "A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock." So, while it's true that wasn't what Winston was doing, the ruling explicitly says that the QB cannot stop the ball with the game clock stopped.

That rule's intention was to penalize someone for burning a second off of a close clock in order to end the half or game with a FG and time expired. It explains it quite well. It absolutely is not a rule that should be applied when there is 30 seconds left on the clock and there is no advantage to burning 1 second more off of it. It's what they call "a situational foul". This situation absolutely did not call for that penalty. And, even when they did use it, they only used the portion of the penalty that they wanted to, not all of it, or else they would have run 10 seconds off the clock, according to that rule.

 

[Sailorsaint]

Hmmm...it would sure seem that way. Does the opposing team have the option of declining the 10-second runoff? If not, that raises another possibility....
15 seconds remaining with a stopped clock, no timeouts left, 3rd and whatever in the redzone. Spike the ball, take the 10 yard penalty, and run the clock down to 5 seconds. Kick the FG and win.

I'm going to deep dive the rule book in a bit and see if the opposing team is allowed to decline the run off. If memory serves, the only team that can do that is the offending team and they have to give up a TO in order to do it.