Oli Udoh got 1st team snaps at Right Tackle; Allen: “LG & RT are still open. Penning is progressing but Udoh will get a look at RT.” (2 Viewers)

[St. Widge]

Sounds like qualities for a RT...and indeed, 2nd bullet pointed strength states "chance to develop as a RIGHT TACKLE or possibly inside at guard..." I feel like RT is potentially a bigger weakness, because we seem to have several potential solutions at LG, even if just "average" solutions. We are still looking for an "average" solution at RT, while HOPING for better than that. Maybe Hergel is the long-time answer at RT? Anyone care to venture a guess as to why he isn't being tried there? Are we that invested in Penning's development (sunken cost fallacy?!) that we're overlooking a potential solution right under our noses?

Just a guess, but he's 6' 2" and 315 Lbs. That's a bit short and light for at RT. And I don't know the arm measurements, but I would bet his arms aren't all that long at that height which can be a problem when dealing with the long pass rushers in the NFL who would have an advantage with longer arms.

Doesn't mean he can't play RT, but you would rather a taller/bigger guy at that position. That's probably why they started him at Guard. He's also now playing some Center with Haynesworth waived injured.

Edit: Or what RJS said.

 

[St. Widge]

Isn't that normal for someone with only 6 starts?

And bad coaching up until this year.

Doesn't seem to be an issue for Fuaga or apparently Hergel.

I'm pulling for Penning because he's a Saint, we spent a 1st round pick on him, and he's a human being. But lets not pretend that this is all the fault of someone other than Penning.

Whether you think Marrone is a good coach or not, he had a hand in developing Bushrod, Nicks, Evans, Stinchcomb, and I think Strief. The game may have passed him by and he may not be the right coach for Pennin,g and isn't the right coach for an outside zone scheme, but he's not the worst OL coach in the world. Plus, there were assistant OL coaches, his college coaches, and guys Penning worked with in the offseason including Duke Mannyweather who runs OL Masterminds and said that penning was not using the technique he was taught.

I think it's mental with Penning. He has all the physical tools and has been taught the correct techniques. He's just not consistently using them when he is on the field in games. That needs to change quickly and while he only has 6 starts (and some preseason starts), lots of guys including Fuaga, get it much earlier than that and his level of struggle is rare for a starting Tackle in the NFL. It's not that he's showing rust or that he's not picking up thinks like stunts and twists. His issues are very basic things like not anchoring, not bending his knees, etc. It's the kinds of things he should already know when he got here and that he certainly should have learned in 2 years no matter how many starts he has.

So, in the end, I'm pulling for him and he showed some progress last week, but it's not all about only having 6 starts or the coaching he has received. At this point, the majority of this is on Penning to use the technique he was taught so that his athletic skills can be seen on the field.

 

[Koolbrees]

The Saints did not draft Penning as a DE in hopes of trying to convert him to Tackle in the pros.

Our rookie left tackle played right tackle in college and we switched him to the left side and he's hit the ground running.

Penning was terrible last season and his play this off-season still has the coaches concerned, so much so that a 7th round pick from the vikings who played both T/G for them is getting looks at RT because our first round pick has yet to solidify a position that's being handed to him.

Thank you for addressing and standing on truth

Penning is NOT an NFL Tackle period ...and no amount of time will help him. Stop with the NONSENSE

 

[MikeyF]

Any of you guru's up for a snap by snap preseason account of Udoh play like what has been done with Penning?

It would be nice to know how he grades out in our system.

 

[MikeyF]

Doesn't seem to be an issue for Fuaga or apparently Hergel.

The big difference is the level of competition that Fuaga & Hergel went against in College.
The played at Power 5 Conferences... much more NFL ready competition.

It was always going to take Penning longer to adjust to the NFL.

 

[Snakehead]

Doesn't seem to be an issue for Fuaga or apparently Hergel.

I'm pulling for Penning because he's a Saint, we spent a 1st round pick on him, and he's a human being. But lets not pretend that this is all the fault of someone other than Penning.

Whether you think Marrone is a good coach or not, he had a hand in developing Bushrod, Nicks, Evans, Stinchcomb, and I think Strief. The game may have passed him by and he may not be the right coach for Pennin,g and isn't the right coach for an outside zone scheme, but he's not the worst OL coach in the world. Plus, there were assistant OL coaches, his college coaches, and guys Penning worked with in the offseason including Duke Mannyweather who runs OL Masterminds and said that penning was not using the technique he was taught.

I think it's mental with Penning. He has all the physical tools and has been taught the correct techniques. He's just not consistently using them when he is on the field in games. That needs to change quickly and while he only has 6 starts (and some preseason starts), lots of guys including Fuaga, get it much earlier than that and his level of struggle is rare for a starting Tackle in the NFL. It's not that he's showing rust or that he's not picking up thinks like stunts and twists. His issues are very basic things like not anchoring, not bending his knees, etc. It's the kinds of things he should already know when he got here and that he certainly should have learned in 2 years no matter how many starts he has.

So, in the end, I'm pulling for him and he showed some progress last week, but it's not all about only having 6 starts or the coaching he has received. At this point, the majority of this is on Penning to use the technique he was taught so that his athletic skills can be seen on the field.

I broke down Pennings OT experience in another post. To compare Fuaga to Penning is quite unfair. Fuaga played OT in HS for 4 years and was a 3 Star recruit. He went on to backup his first 2 years at Oregon St. playing in 14 games, but then he started 25 games across 2022 and 2023. That's 8 years experience as an OT before he was drafted compared to Penning's 4, conversion from DE/TE to OT in 2017, played 2018, 2019 and then the Spring and Fall seasons in 2021. He's had an injury riddled NFL career with his first 2 offseasons used for injury rehab instead of development that he was able to do in this past offseason.

 

[MikeyF]

I don't think 2 rookies next to each other would be a good idea. If Patrick is solid, roll with that and revisit LG again in the offseason. 31 isn't old for OL.

Neither Penning nor Udoh is a rookie...

but if Patrick earns the starting LG position, you give it to him!

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

The Saints fell in love with Penning because he was mauling dudes at that level. He should have never been drafted that high. Period.

Or making highlight reels blocking defensive backs through and after the whistle

 

[St. Widge]

The big difference is the level of competition that Fuaga & Hergel went against in College.
The played at Power 5 Conferences... much more NFL ready competition.

It was always going to take Penning longer to adjust to the NFL.

I get that and I agree. I am willing to give Penning some more time. But, at this point he's had over two years and went to the best offseason O-Line camp in the country. Despite that, he is still not doing very basic things. So, I'm just not comfortable counting on him to start at RT because if he plays like he did in the first preseason game, it could be the thing that sinks this season. IF he continues to improve week over week like he did between week 1 and week 2, he might be serviceable by the start of the season and solid by mid-season, but I think they have to see if Udoh is better. Kubiak can likely work to get Penning help with chips, roll outs, etc., but it would limit what we can do on offense and at some point you just have to have a guy that can protect the QB on a standard drop back without help.

I'm willing to give him more time because he didn't quit after week 1 of preseason and even showed improvement. But, I do think they need to see if Udoh is better because I don't think Penning is yet ready. They should have brought in a solid starting RT in free agency to compete with Penning and take the pressure off of him to start. But that ship has long since sailed.

 

[St. Widge]

Neither Penning nor Udoh is a rookie...

but if Patrick earns the starting RG position, you give it to him!

I believe he is talking about putting Hergel at LG next to Fuaga instead of Patrick at LG. Personally, I don't care if they are a rookie or not, I'd just put the best 5 guys out there.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

The big difference is the level of competition that Fuaga & Hergel went against in College.
The played at Power 5 Conferences... much more NFL ready competition.

It was always going to take Penning longer to adjust to the NFL.

Which is fine, but also highlights the nonsensical nature of burning future draft assets to retain a 2nd first round pick to draft a player who wasn't going to be ready to play at a pro level until AFTER the future pick which was given up to get him in the first place.

While I applaud the Olave trade and pick, we just couldn't help ourselves to do the "safe Saints thing" and draft ANOTHER lineman early.

 

[St. Widge]

I broke down Pennings OT experience in another post. To compare Fuaga to Penning is quite unfair. Fuaga played OT in HS for 4 years and was a 3 Star recruit. He went on to backup his first 2 years at Oregon St. playing in 14 games, but then he started 25 games across 2022 and 2023. That's 8 years experience as an OT before he was drafted compared to Penning's 4, conversion from DE/TE to OT in 2017, played 2018, 2019 and then the Spring and Fall seasons in 2021. He's had an injury riddled NFL career with his first 2 offseasons used for injury rehab instead of development that he was able to do in this past offseason.

Again, I get all of that. But Penning has now been in the NFL for over two years and went to at least one offseason camp that specializes in developing NFL Offensive Linemen. I get that he is going to take longer to develop, but he should be much further along after 2 years with an NFL team no matter how many starts he has or how many injuries he had.

I mean, people want to cut Miller for being hurt, but somehow it's an excuse for Penning not doing very basic OL techniques?

 

[BreesusSaves]

Or making highlight reels blocking defensive backs through and after the whistle

We all know how important RAS is to the Saints, too important if you ask me, but when you look at Penning's RAS it is easy to see why the Saints and many teams had him tagged as a first round talent. Every single team looked at his measurable and went "if he gets it, he'll be among the best OTs in the league."

Trouble is, well, he's struggling to get it. And I think the worst part is he is legitimately trying. He's not lazy. He's not blowing off studying. By all accounts he's been putting in work with multiple OL coaches and seeking wisdom from Hall of Famers.

That to me is what makes it so disappointing. The measurables are there, the drive is there, but the brain is just not getting it.

 

[Snakehead]

Again, I get all of that. But Penning has now been in the NFL for over two years and went to at least one offseason camp that specializes in developing NFL Offensive Linemen. I get that he is going to take longer to develop, but he should be much further along after 2 years with an NFL team no matter how many starts he has or how many injuries he had.

I mean, people want to cut Miller for being hurt, but somehow it's an excuse for Penning not doing very basic OL techniques?

He went 1 season to a camp developing NFL Offensive Lineman. He was injured before his rookie season and injured at the end of his rookie season so that was 2 offseasons he wasn't able to develop.

 

[Rexman100]

I get that and I agree. I am willing to give Penning some more time. But, at this point he's had over two years and went to the best offseason O-Line camp in the country. Despite that, he is still not doing very basic things. So, I'm just not comfortable counting on him to start at RT because if he plays like he did in the first preseason game, it could be the thing that sinks this season. IF he continues to improve week over week like he did between week 1 and week 2, he might be serviceable by the start of the season and solid by mid-season, but I think they have to see if Udoh is better. Kubiak can likely work to get Penning help with chips, roll outs, etc., but it would limit what we can do on offense and at some point you just have to have a guy that can protect the QB on a standard drop back without help.

I'm willing to give him more time because he didn't quit after week 1 of preseason and even showed improvement. But, I do think they need to see if Udoh is better because I don't think Penning is yet ready. They should have brought in a solid starting RT in free agency to compete with Penning and take the pressure off of him to start. But that ship has long since sailed.

with any player its how do they respond to coaching. Are they learning in practice but under the lights abandoning what they learned? Or are they making slow steady progress. If they are making slow steady progress then you could see potential down the road. If they abandon what they've learned, then you have nothing and have to start over. I think this is why Penning is taking heat, he abandoned what he learned in the first pre-seeason game, but since then, showed that he can make steady progress vs SF. Because we've been burned already as fans with Penning, we're now at a wait-and-see how he does vs TENN mode.