Oli Udoh got 1st team snaps at Right Tackle; Allen: “LG & RT are still open. Penning is progressing but Udoh will get a look at RT.” (1 Viewer)

[Chris Cole]

Any of you guru's up for a snap by snap preseason account of Udoh play like what has been done with Penning?

It would be nice to know how he grades out in our system.

I'm up for it. I thought he was our second worst Lineman behind Penning in the Arizona game. I haven't watched the San Francisco game...one positive about Penning and Udoh is they have made it through training camp without breaking

 

[MikeyF]

LOL you only posted strengths

Why don't you click on the pic?

Strengths & Weaknesses...

LOL

 

[DSnfla]

Doesn't seem to be an issue for Fuaga or apparently Hergel.

I'm pulling for Penning because he's a Saint, we spent a 1st round pick on him, and he's a human being. But lets not pretend that this is all the fault of someone other than Penning.

Whether you think Marrone is a good coach or not, he had a hand in developing Bushrod, Nicks, Evans, Stinchcomb, and I think Strief. The game may have passed him by and he may not be the right coach for Pennin,g and isn't the right coach for an outside zone scheme, but he's not the worst OL coach in the world. Plus, there were assistant OL coaches, his college coaches, and guys Penning worked with in the offseason including Duke Mannyweather who runs OL Masterminds and said that penning was not using the technique he was taught.

I think it's mental with Penning. He has all the physical tools and has been taught the correct techniques. He's just not consistently using them when he is on the field in games. That needs to change quickly and while he only has 6 starts (and some preseason starts), lots of guys including Fuaga, get it much earlier than that and his level of struggle is rare for a starting Tackle in the NFL. It's not that he's showing rust or that he's not picking up thinks like stunts and twists. His issues are very basic things like not anchoring, not bending his knees, etc. It's the kinds of things he should already know when he got here and that he certainly should have learned in 2 years no matter how many starts he has.

So, in the end, I'm pulling for him and he showed some progress last week, but it's not all about only having 6 starts or the coaching he has received. At this point, the majority of this is on Penning to use the technique he was taught so that his athletic skills can be seen on the field.

Why is it you refuse to take into consideration that for almost his whole rookie yr and the 2nd yr offseason TP was hurt and not able to put the work he needed in? You also fail to understand that NO ONE said that TP was pro-ready coming out of college, especially in pass pro. Being a bit of a project in pass pro plus being hurt for almost a whole yr is not a good recipe for development. You say that Marronehad a hand in the development of Evans , Bushrod, Strief , ( he only had Nicks his rookie yr) he had about as much in the hand of their development as Boudreau did in Willie Roaf. The fact about Marrone is that other than his 1st 2 yrs here all his OLs were at best mediocre and most of the time they were pretty bad.

The truth is that Fuaga was the 4th OT taken in a very good OT draft class. TP was the 6th O lineman taken and the 4th OT taken in a poor OT draft.
In a better OT draft TP would have more than likely gone mid 2nd rd due to him needing development in pass pro.
So that along with the injuries , coupled with a not good and wrong OL coach for him has severely hindered his development that he very much needed.
As far as what Duke said that was about 1 game, his FIRST game @ RT
That's not to say that TP is faultless in all of this, He needs to get out of his head and trust the tech. But history has shown that he gets better with almost every game. Maybe you should go and watch the all-22 of last yrs 1st 5 games and see the improvement and also understand that he's played a total of TWO games @ RT

 

[DSnfla]

Thank you for addressing and standing on truth

Penning is NOT an NFL Tackle period ...and no amount of time will help him. Stop with the NONSENSE

I'm sorry but your post is ridiculous . Tell me the credentials you have to make that statement please . Are you or have you been a HS, college or pro OLcoach or player? How about maybe a pro scout? Or maybe even a very qualified football writer?

 

[DSnfla]

The big difference is the level of competition that Fuaga & Hergel went against in College.
The played at Power 5 Conferences... much more NFL ready competition.

It was always going to take Penning longer to adjust to the NFL.

Hergel started at North Dakota then transferred to Texas St where he played 2 seasons . then as a 5th yr SR, he transferred to Boston College . You might want to readjust that since he only played at BC for 1 yr

 

[nakadish]

That's why I thought it was odd that they more or less gave Penning the starting job at the start camp and didn't bring in a vet RT to really compete with him. I get that he may have a fragile ego and have issues with self-esteem, but at some point you have to test him because the NFL is going to continue to try to humble him.

To me it says that the coaches are confident that Penning can get to where they want him to be, otherwise they would have done more to shore up the position. At least that's the only justification that I can come up with.

 

[DSnfla]

I broke down Pennings OT experience in another post. To compare Fuaga to Penning is quite unfair. Fuaga played OT in HS for 4 years and was a 3 Star recruit. He went on to backup his first 2 years at Oregon St. playing in 14 games, but then he started 25 games across 2022 and 2023. That's 8 years experience as an OT before he was drafted compared to Penning's 4, conversion from DE/TE to OT in 2017, played 2018, 2019 and then the Spring and Fall seasons in 2021. He's had an injury riddled NFL career with his first 2 offseasons used for injury rehab instead of development that he was able to do in this past offseason.

How dare you introduce facts and logic into the conversation . Don't you know that Penning has 2yrs of un-injured starting @ RT and should be 1st team all-pro by now LOL

 

[DSnfla]

Again, I get all of that. But Penning has now been in the NFL for over two years and went to at least one offseason camp that specializes in developing NFL Offensive Linemen. I get that he is going to take longer to develop, but he should be much further along after 2 years with an NFL team no matter how many starts he has or how many injuries he had.

I mean, people want to cut Miller for being hurt, but somehow it's an excuse for Penning not doing very basic OL techniques?

You keep saying 2yrs but in those 2 yrs he was hurt for almost his entire rookie yr and then the whole 2nd yr offseason. That means NO WORK . People want to give up on Miller because he came in out of shape and pulled a hammy in drills. Not to mention he looked lost in OTA's . And if I were DA I'd put him on IR and make him have a come to Jesus moment

 

[DSnfla]

We all know how important RAS is to the Saints, too important if you ask me, but when you look at Penning's RAS it is easy to see why the Saints and many teams had him tagged as a first round talent. Every single team looked at his measurable and went "if he gets it, he'll be among the best OTs in the league."

Trouble is, well, he's struggling to get it. And I think the worst part is he is legitimately trying. He's not lazy. He's not blowing off studying. By all accounts he's been putting in work with multiple OL coaches and seeking wisdom from Hall of Famers.

That to me is what makes it so disappointing. The measurables are there, the drive is there, but the brain is just not getting it.

The trouble is we should be looking at TP as a player that has either been hurt most of his 1st yr and a half here, then saddled with a bad/wrong OL coach that broke him. A staff that started him WAY too early after an injury-riddled yr and a half. Then benched him shattering his confidence. Now we have a good OL coach and we are having him play a position he has never played before. How in the world is that the best way to develop a player that needs development?

 

[DSnfla]

with any player its how do they respond to coaching. Are they learning in practice but under the lights abandoning what they learned? Or are they making slow steady progress. If they are making slow steady progress then you could see potential down the road. If they abandon what they've learned, then you have nothing and have to start over. I think this is why Penning is taking heat, he abandoned what he learned in the first pre-seeason game, but since then, showed that he can make steady progress vs SF. Because we've been burned already as fans with Penning, we're now at a wait-and-see how he does vs TENN mode.

But he was making progress last yr , he got better almost every game. Maybe you should go re-watch the all -22 of the 1st 5 games

 

[DSnfla]

Why don't you click on the pic?

Strengths & Weaknesses...

LOL

I just scrolled down, then i went to his scouting page . some pretty big weaknesses . But 1 report is not the say all do all

 

[solarbear88]

But he was making progress last yr , he got better almost every game. Maybe you should go re-watch the all -22 of the 1st 5 games

This is the sort of thing they make people do in prison when they have really crossed the line.

 

[greatshow25]

Cesar Ruiz was pretty terrible for a couple of years. Not everyone "gets it" in their first year. But that doesn't mean they won't become good players over the course of their career. If Penning ends up starting for the next 10 years, nobody is going to care. There are certainly some things he doesn't do well. But there's enough to suggest that he can be pretty good, and you don't get there by sitting on the bench. You take your lumps on someone you think can become a good player, or you spend a lot of money of a FA that may or may not ever be available.

Ruiz is playing out of position. Plus he had one year with no offseason due to Covid and plus he had to learn a new position. He was then thrown into the deep end and told to swim.

 

[DSnfla]

Yes, but regardless of his prior injuries it's his third year in the NFL. Had Ruiz not come around after his second year, a task accomplished by Doug Maronne by the way, he likely would not have been the starter at RG or may have been cut. But, Ruiz was showing progress that Penning hasn't really shown and Ruiz was much better at RG than Penning has been at RT. Penning has been more or less unplayable. Ruiz just wasn't what you wanted in your starting RG.

And again, I'm not saying to cut Penning. I'm saying make him compete with Udoh to win the job or bring in another better vet for him to compete with. This team is not in a position to sacrifice wins to try to develop Penning. If he's ready and wins the job they he should start. Otherwise he should sit and learn or just play some jumbo TE.

And, if he wins the job I'll be happy for him. But, I think just handing him the job when he hasn't shown he is capable of handling it was a bad idea. Hopefully he continues what he started last week and continues to get better, but they need to make him compete. Which is exactly what DA said he's going to do. I just think that they should have brought in better competition and that he should have had to compete for the job from day 1 instead of more or less handing it to him up until yesterday.

Ruiz was drafted in the covid yr and was hurt in TC. He was very much underwhelming, He did improve in his 2nd yr and yes Marrone was OL coach but what happened last yr? Just like everyone on the entire OL under Marrone they regressed. You keep touting Marrone, if he such a great OL coach where is he the OL coach right now after we fired him?

 

[DSnfla]

Important to note that he "looked decent" to us casual observers that have no idea what his assignments were, if his coaches were not happy with the techniques he was using in certain situations, etc.

For all we know, after watching the film, the coaching staff may have thought he played absolutely terrible. We just don't know.

Marrone was in charge of the OL last yr it was mostly his decision. Tell me where Doug Marrone is the OL coach this season