Oli Udoh got 1st team snaps at Right Tackle; Allen: “LG & RT are still open. Penning is progressing but Udoh will get a look at RT.” (3 Viewers)

[greatshow25]

I'm up for it. I thought he was our second worst Lineman behind Penning in the Arizona game. I haven't watched the San Francisco game...one positive about Penning and Udoh is they have made it through training camp without breaking

Ross Jackson said he’s a better tackle than he is at guard, and he played mostly guard during the Cardinals game. They moved him as the primary backup at RT the next practice after the Cardinals game.

 

[greatshow25]

Marrone was in charge of the OL last yr it was mostly his decision. Tell me where Doug Marrone is the OL coach this season

I watched Underhill talking about the 49ers game and he said Pennings tape was bad. He wasn’t as good as most people thought he looked. That is his opinion though. He said he thinks Oli Udoh maybe the starter in week 1. Ross Jackson went on record weeks ago and said Udoh at RT when he had to pick the starters.

 

[DSnfla]

Agreed. I obviously have strong opinions on this. But had the coaching staff said we don't think he needs to compete because he won the job then I would defer to Benton, Dennison, and Kubiak. But since they have now decided to give Udoh a shot, it tells me that they are not fully satisfied that he is ready to start.

Either that or they think giving him competition will make him better.

Where did DA say that TP did not need to compete ? He said at the beginning that someone needed to say " That's my job" TP was put in the starter position because someone had to be and so far according to DA no one has replaced him as starter. Now who knows what will happen until 9/8 And if Benton and Dennison start TP or don't start him I'm fine with that because they know far more than me or anyone else on here. But it's my guess that if someone else is starting RT it's because they want to develop TP more before he gets another chance to start

 

[St. Widge]

Where did DA say that TP did not need to compete ? He said at the beginning that someone needed to say " That's my job" TP was put in the starter position because someone had to be and so far according to DA no one has replaced him as starter. Now who knows what will happen until 9/8 And if Benton and Dennison start TP or don't start him I'm fine with that because they know far more than me or anyone else on here. But it's my guess that if someone else is starting RT it's because they want to develop TP more before he gets another chance to start

When he gave him all the first team reps in camp up until yesterday. And then he decided to split first team reps with Udoh in the last two practices.

But yes, if he doesn't start they are obviously going to try to develop him more in hopes that he will be ready to start later in the season or next year.

 

[DSnfla]

I watched Underhill talking about the 49ers game and he said Pennings tape was bad. He wasn’t as good as most people thought he looked. That is his opinion though. He said he thinks Oli Udoh maybe the starter in week 1. Ross Jackson went on record weeks ago and said Udoh at RT when he had to pick the starters.

Yeah an Underhill said that Kendre Miller was going to be the breakout player this yr and maybe take carries away from AK. How's that playing out ?
Underhill has been especially negative this yr, in fact so has Trip. Could be because they were so sunshine pumping last yr in TC and they got it so wrong ? And Ross Jackson posted this on Penning yesterday

 

[St. Widge]

Why is it you refuse to take into consideration that for almost his whole rookie yr and the 2nd yr offseason TP was hurt and not able to put the work he needed in? You also fail to understand that NO ONE said that TP was pro-ready coming out of college, especially in pass pro. Being a bit of a project in pass pro plus being hurt for almost a whole yr is not a good recipe for development. You say that Marronehad a hand in the development of Evans , Bushrod, Strief , ( he only had Nicks his rookie yr) he had about as much in the hand of their development as Boudreau did in Willie Roaf. The fact about Marrone is that other than his 1st 2 yrs here all his OLs were at best mediocre and most of the time they were pretty bad.

The truth is that Fuaga was the 4th OT taken in a very good OT draft class. TP was the 6th O lineman taken and the 4th OT taken in a poor OT draft.
In a better OT draft TP would have more than likely gone mid 2nd rd due to him needing development in pass pro.
So that along with the injuries , coupled with a not good and wrong OL coach for him has severely hindered his development that he very much needed.
As far as what Duke said that was about 1 game, his FIRST game @ RT
That's not to say that TP is faultless in all of this, He needs to get out of his head and trust the tech. But history has shown that he gets better with almost every game. Maybe you should go and watch the all-22 of last yrs 1st 5 games and see the improvement and also understand that he's played a total of TWO games @ RT

I did take that into consideration so I don't know why you think I didn't. Even if he has only had one full healthy year and one full healthy offseason, you would hope that he would be further along that struggling with fundamentals in games.

I know you hate Marrone almost as much as you love Penning, but the fact is that if you don't want to admit he had a hand in developing those guys, why is it that Ruiz finally became a solid RG only after Marronne worked with him? He's not an amazing OL coach and he's certainly not the guy you want teaching outside zone, but he didn't make Penning this bad and he has clearly developed other guys into NFL offensive linemen that have far less natural talent than Penning has.

I don't get why you can't accept that Penning simply isn't ready. He might be ready at some point, but I don't think that point is now. But, yes, if Dennison, Benton, and Kubiak think he's the best guy we have at RT and ready to start, I'll certainly defer to their expertise. I don't see it, but I could be wrong.

 

[DSnfla]

When he gave him all the first team reps in camp up until yesterday. And then he decided to split first team reps with Udoh in the last two practices.

But yes, if he doesn't start they are obviously going to try to develop him more in hopes that he will be ready to start later in the season or next year.

TP improved from the wk before , was it leaps and bounds ? Maybe not but it was an improvement. My guess it was a Benton decision to give Udoh for 1st team reps as hedging his bets kinda thing just in case TP does not continue to improve. I can tell you one thing if Udoh was just beating TP out before , or anyone else that would have been getting most of the 1st team reps

 

[St. Widge]

To me it says that the coaches are confident that Penning can get to where they want him to be, otherwise they would have done more to shore up the position. At least that's the only justification that I can come up with.

I think they were confident back then, but giving Udoh half of the 1st team reps at RT the last two days tells me that their confidence that he will be ready to start in waning and they are close to making a change.

And I think it was a risky move that I hope doesn't blow up in their face.

 

[Rexman100]

But he was making progress last yr , he got better almost every game. Maybe you should go re-watch the all -22 of the 1st 5 games

Maybe, but what do we really know as fans watching the all 22? As we speak, they are trying Udoh at RT. Apparently we thought Penning was making progress and the coaches disagree. And that’s a fact. Because DA is all about wanting someone to claim the job. “That’s my job”. Maybe his first games last year were the same in the coaches eyes. It’ll be interesting how this plays out, personally I want Penning to own RT. Because he’s built like a freight train. He could be our RT for the next decade. Thats what I’m hoping.

 

[DSnfla]

I did take that into consideration so I don't know why you think I didn't. Even if he has only had one full healthy year and one full healthy offseason, you would hope that he would be further along that struggling with fundamentals in games.

I know you hate Marrone almost as much as you love Penning, but the fact is that if you don't want to admit he had a hand in developing those guys, why is it that Ruiz finally became a solid RG only after Marronne worked with him? He's not an amazing OL coach and he's certainly not the guy you want teaching outside zone, but he didn't make Penning this bad and he has clearly developed other guys into NFL offensive linemen that have far less natural talent than Penning has.

I don't get why you can't accept that Penning simply isn't ready. He might be ready at some point, but I don't think that point is now. But, yes, if Dennison, Benton, and Kubiak think he's the best guy we have at RT and ready to start, I'll certainly defer to their expertise. I don't see it, but I could be wrong.

You are missing my points, I don't love TP. I think that most of you are not seeing the whole story. While Penning has had 1 yr of being healthy after he got benched he got NO GAME REPS. Tell me how a player is supposed to develop like that? And what that will do for his confidence? And confidence is very important to an O lineman almost as much as a DB. Once again Ruiz did improve from a covid rookie yr , but what happened last yr under Marrone?? REGRESSION. Tell me some of the great OLs that were developed under Marrone when he was an OL coach? I'll wait

 

[St. Widge]

TP improved from the wk before , was it leaps and bounds ? Maybe not but it was an improvement. My guess it was a Benton decision to give Udoh for 1st team reps as hedging his bets kinda thing just in case TP does not continue to improve. I can tell you one thing if Udoh was just beating TP out before , or anyone else that would have been getting most of the 1st team reps

I think they badly want Penning to start and be the the player they thought he was when the drafted him. So, they are trying to give him every chance they can to get reps with the first team to gel with the line and play against the better players in preseason. That's why they didn't give Udoh first team reps until camp broke in California. Now they want to see if Udoh might be better.

 

[DSnfla]

Maybe, but what do we really know as fans watching the all 22? As we speak, they are trying Udoh at RT. Apparently we thought Penning was making progress and the coaches disagree. And that’s a fact. Because DA is all about wanting someone to claim the job. “That’s my job”. Maybe his first games last year were the same in the coaches eyes. It’ll be interesting how this plays out, personally I want Penning to own RT. Because he’s built like a freight train. He could be our RT for the next decade. Thats what I’m hoping.

Of course we won't know everything watching all-22 but any really knowledgable fan especially one that played the game at least at a HS level can see a good bit of things. Do you really think that if Udoh was killing it that TP would have been starting all this time ?? C'mon.

 

[St. Widge]

You are missing my points, I don't love TP. I think that most of you are not seeing the whole story. While Penning has had 1 yr of being healthy after he got benched he got NO GAME REPS. Tell me how a player is supposed to develop like that? And what that will do for his confidence? And confidence is very important to an O lineman almost as much as a DB. Once again Ruiz did improve from a covid rookie yr , but what happened last yr under Marrone?? REGRESSION. Tell me some of the great OLs that were developed under Marrone when he was an OL coach? I'll wait

He started 6 regular season games and he has now started two preseason games this year. He probably played in some preseason games the last two years, but I don't recall. So, that's not close to NO GAME REPS. Beyond that both Fuaga and Hergel have had NO GAME REPS and yet they are not struggling with fundamentals the way that Penning is. It doesn't mean he can't develop and I hope he does, but time is running out for him to do it this year

As far as Marronne, I already gave you that list but you refuse to give him any credit for their development despite the fact that he was their OL coach.

Honestly, at this point I don't know what you are even arguing for or what your position is. You just go off on any criticism of Penning and any time someone suggests that Marronne may not be the worst OL coach in the history of football.

 

[DSnfla]

He started 6 regular season games and he has now started two preseason games this year. He probably played in some preseason games the last two years, but I don't recall. So, that's not close to NO GAME REPS. Beyond that both Fuaga and Hergel have had NO GAME REPS and yet they are not struggling with fundamentals the way that Penning is. It doesn't mean he can't develop and I hope he does, but time is running out for him to do it this year

As far as Marronne, I already gave you that list but you refuse to give him any credit for their development despite the fact that he was their OL coach.

Honestly, at this point I don't know what you are even arguing for or what your position is. You just go off on any criticism of Penning and any time someone suggests that Marronne may not be the worst OL coach in the history of football.

Fuaga started the AZ game and Hergel played in both games , that's game reps for both. The players you mentioned were in his 2yrs he was with the Saints. After that all his OLs were bad to mediocre and I;m not even taking into consideration the teams he was HC ( they were bad as well) How you don't know my point is kinda head-scratching. But I'll spell it out for you . It's that Penning has not had the chance to really develop due to injury, bad /wrong OL coaching and a poor coaching decision to completely bench him not even using him in jumbo formations like they did in his few games as a rookie when it's the development that we all knew he needed when we drafted him. AND that while TP does need to get out of his head , it's the COACHING staff that broke his confidence and created this problem. Get my point now?

 

[St. Widge]

Fuaga started the AZ game and Hergel played in both games , that's game reps for both. The players you mentioned were in his 2yrs he was with the Saints. After that all his OLs were bad to mediocre and I;m not even taking into consideration the teams he was HC ( they were bad as well) How you don't know my point is kinda head-scratching. But I'll spell it out for you . It's that Penning has not had the chance to really develop due to injury, bad /wrong OL coaching and a poor coaching decision to completely bench him not even using him in jumbo formations like they did in his few games as a rookie when it's the development that we all knew he needed when we drafted him. AND that while TP does need to get out of his head , it's the COACHING staff that broke his confidence and created this problem. Get my point now?

No, I don't get your point .

And both Hergel and Fuaga played better in the AZ game before they had any game reps, than Penning has after starting 6 regular season game, at least 2 preseason games, being injury free for one year, and going to the OL Masterminds camp with Duke Merryweather.

If that's your point then it's just wrong. He has had one full healthy year and one full offseason including working with Duke Merryweather. That's even if we ignore like you want to that Penning has been in the NFL for over 2 years and started 6 games in the NFL. That's way more than enough training and time to learn how to play using the proper fundamentals.

And you have no evidence that the coaching staff broke his confidence other than your extreme hatred of Marronne who spent many years coaching in the NFL so he must at least have so idea how to coach an OL and as I mentioned had a hand in developing Ruiz and several of the Saints best OL. To blame Penning's problem all on Marronne and the staff is ignoring Pennings own contribution to his problems. The game passed Marronne by but he's not close to as bad as you suggest. He didn't destroy Penning and it's clear that it wasn't Marrone's fault when Duke Merryweather, Dennison, and Benton have not been able to fix. Can they with time? Hopefully, but it's no sure thing because he regressed for last year to the AZ game this year and he made very little improvement between the AZ and SF games. And that regression was not the fault of Merryweather, Dennison, or Benton because Pennings knows the technique, he just couldn't put it on the field and he still isn't.