One of the biggest flaws I see on the Offensive side of the ball (16 Viewers)

[madsaint1967]

I disagree, Carr wasn’t the problem yesterday. The man has zero time compared to most NFL qbs and still makes plays.

Bad talent evaluation for backup OLine.

 

[blotch1]

I mean this is the starting OL outside of McCoy and McGovern was a 9 year vet starting at Center and he has started the last 5 games. And Ram is effectively no longer on the team. He would have retired in the offseason but stayed on the injured list and will retire in the next offseason to help the Saints' cap.

So, you're just going to discount the first 2 games of the season before the injuries started piling up and the next 2 that were competitive?

Carr looked really good behind that o-line and looks not so good behind this one. What changed? The o-line changed completely because of injuries. That's what changed.

 

[St. Widge]

So, you're just going to discount the first 2 games of the season before the injuries started piling up and the next 2 that were competitive?

Carr looked really good behind that o-line and looks not so good behind this one. What changed? The o-line changed completely because of injuries. That's what changed.

Huh? First, the point is that most of the OL from those first two games is back.

Second, I'm just saying that we are playing backups isn't an excuse for having trouble with the blitz right now since all of our starters from those first two games are back other than McCoy. The reason that we are having issues despite most of the starting OL being back is because we don't have a big contested catch guy to run blitz beating quick slants over the middle, Kubiak isn't doing a good job of giving Carr options against the blitz despite the limitations, the running game not being dominant enough to stop them from blitzing, and yes, Carr has never been great against the blitz and should do a better job finding his hot routes and check downs.

I do think that the first two games show that when healthy this is a solid overall OL and a good run blocking OL.

Carr did look good in those first two games. A lot of that had to do with the fact that we had a dominating run game that meant he didn't often have to face third and long and it made play action more effective. I mean he only had to throw the ball 23 times against the Panthers and16 times against the Cowboys. Nobody on offense looked good against Philly or in the first Atlanta game. But, sure, Carr looked good when they made him a low volume QB with a dominant running game that allowed for more effective play action passes and less third and long situations. And the effectiveness of the running game and play action passes in the first two games meant that teams really couldn't blitz Carr.

Carr is a solid but not spectacular QB. He throws a great deep ball, but he has limitations including not being great throwing over the middle, not being as accurate as you would like on shorter routes, a lack of mobility and pocket presence, and a tendency to throw the ball away instead of taking the check down. That doesn't make him a bad QB. He's a mid-level starter which is about what he is paid to be. You would like an upgrade over that but until you find one Carr is fine.

 

[Rexman100]

ive watched the game again. It was the drive when it was 20-17 Saints, (ATL just scored a td) 14:57 to go in the game. With the momentum shift to ATL, the Saints respond to ATLs TD by going 3 and out and punting. I figured ATL w/ the momentum gets moving and takes the lead and doesnt look back. But the Saints force a 3 and out. Only to go 3 and out again. Then ATL goes 10 plays and misses a tying FG. (6:34 left in the game) THe Saints get the ball and go 3 and out again. Atl gets the ball and goes 6 plays then the INT by 32. The Saints offense goes three and out for the 4th time in a row. Then in the final minute, ATL goes 6 plays and loses.

We actually moved the ball in the 3rd quarter but 4 consecutive three and outs is putting way too much pressure on the D to hold off a measly 3 point lead. Obviously ill take the win, but we have to get that fixed. It doesn't have to be wholesale changes, but enough offense to at least squeeze out a couple FG's which would've made it a two possession game. (9 points) I understand that we were used to losing (remember they say "winning and losing are habits") and habits are hard to break. But now that've we've broken it, hopefully we gain confidence and improve vs Clev. Because if we give JW 4 chances to score, he'll eventually get it done.

 

[los226]

It feels like the Saints haven’t been able to handle the blitz well at all since Brees retired. No matter who is at QB or who is on the line it’s been the same story every year.

 

[Rexman100]

In response to the edit. I think all that shows is that some sacks are the fault of the QB and others aren't. So I think if you want to have a QB stat for sacks, you need to look at each sack individually and decide if it was the fault of the QB or something else. Otherwise, I don't think treating sacks as a QB stat is really a useful analytical tool. Put another way, not getting sacked a lot doesn't make you a good QB, but it is true that lots of good QBs don't get sacked a lot. But, I don't think the stat itself tells the full story.

There are times that a QB gets hit from the blind side where he can't get rid of the ball. And there are times when a QB should move up in the pocket or roll out to make a play to avoid a sack instead of just throwing it away. Sometimes that move ends up in a sack, but I think you would rather that than a guy just throwing it away every time he feels pressure.

So while sure some sacks are the fault of the QB, not all of them are because as I said some are caused by scheme, play call, play design, missed assignment, OL getting beat, etc. and can not be avoided. It's why we now have advanced stats on how long a QB holds the ball and how much time he has to throw. It's because not all sacks are equal and not all sacks are solely the fault of the QB which is why I don't think it's right to call it a QB stat. And on the other side, a lack of sacks isn't necessarily because the QB is good. It could be that you just run the ball a lot, use a lot of quick passes, you have a great OL, or the QB is throwing the ball away too early.

And FWIW, some people also think wins and losses are QB stats to and I disagree with that for similar reasons.

Its true that a sack caused by an olineman being blown up shouldn't be on the Qb's. So its not a perfect measure. But i do like that the QB is being looked at as potentially being the issue for getting multiple sacks. In the past the QB wouldn't get any blame.

 

[Steve in Colorado]

The intentional grounding happened when top rated RT Penning was driven all the way into Carr’s lap, no one blitzed on that play. Kamara was open as the check down, but Penning was driven so far back that Ruiz’ pass rusher blocked off an escape to the right.


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Thanks for posting this clip Rouxble. It's admittedly easy for me to write this from a 30,000 ft view, but there's a potential void for Carr to step into. However he panics with the outside collapsing pressure.

This is one of the things that made Drew an all-time great. He had this uncanny ability to shrink his shoulders/body in a collapsing pocket to find a window to throw.

 

[St. Widge]

Its true that a sack caused by an olineman being blown up shouldn't be on the Qb's. So its not a perfect measure. But i do like that the QB is being looked at as potentially being the issue for getting multiple sacks. In the past the QB wouldn't get any blame.

I do think it's good to recognize that QBs have some responsibility for sacks since for a long time people just put it on the OL. But I think so much goes into how many sacks a team gives up that it's unfair for fully credit or discredit a QB for sacks.

 

[Cgrob81]

I don't think this offense throws enough screens to Kamara. It's the perfect play call to offset a blitz and Kamara is just about as good as Pierre Thomas was at screens. USE IT.

 

[Rouxble]

I don't think this offense throws enough screens to Kamara. It's the perfect play call to offset a blitz and Kamara is just about as good as Pierre Thomas was at screens. USE IT.

FWIW, Kamara has the second most targets (20) on screen passes this year, only one target behind Achane for the Dolphins.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

Qb sacks are a QB stat, so Carr deserves credit.

Yes and no.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

When the Falcons or any team blitzes against the Saints so far this season, I don't think it's handled well at all. Most of it I'll put on Carr. There were times yesterday he would change the play because I assume he saw a blitz coming. Yet when he gets the snap he seems indecisive, rolls out of the pocket and heaves the ball out of bounds. He ended up getting an intentional grounding call doing something like that late in the game. My thing is when the Falcons blitzed they were leaving the middle of the field WIDE OPEN!!! Yet no receiver was schemed to take advantage of that. If I could see that from my tv, you telling me no one could see that on the field!!!

McCoy

 

[Vision]

Right? And before about 2:00 or whenever it was into the game, I had no idea what the initials MVS were.

I liked the other kid too Austin. Was catching some passes.

 

[DSnfla]

Part of this comes from playing with receivers that know how to adjust routes

And practicing enough so qb and receiver see the same thing and read it the same

The pass to FM that seemed behind him near the end zone on the first drive I think it was

Carr read for 87 to sit down but 87 kept running

Deuce stated after the play that Carr wanted him to stop as to not run him into the defender

Yeah because if he threw to where FM was he would have gotten killed and MT and half this board would be spouting " Hospital Ball" SMH

 

[DSnfla]

The intentional grounding happened when top rated RT Penning was driven all the way into Carr’s lap, no one blitzed on that play. Kamara was open as the check down, but Penning was driven so far back that Ruiz’ pass rusher blocked off an escape to the right.


View attachment trim.9A12CD64-0862-4932-A67B-CF7DE8A83C6D.MOV

DC also drifts slightly to the right , could be because Saldiveri was about to get beat to the left. Yes TP got driven back from an edge rusher with a running start but he did gain control of the rusher and pushed him back.
I think the real pressure came from Saldiver's man