Pat Kirwan said he heard Carr didn’t want to do Saints contract restructure (51 Viewers)

[DSnfla]

Sorry. Based on your screen name, I assumed you lived in Florida. Regardless I don't see the levels of "hate" that are being claimed here outside of social media.

I did live in FL almost 2 decades ago. It's not just social media. listen to the call in shows after the games. or any call in shows. Yes it's on social media and it's nothing but negative, almost personal attacks on DC . Especially that blow hard Moscona. The only guy that seems realistic is Skrmetta. and he does not like DC , he just does not bash him constantly

 

[HouseCall]

There’s tons of footage of Peyton Manning jawing it up with Jeff Saturday before the super bowls and playoff runs. Competitive QBs and centers calling the protections tend to rub each other the wrong way. Not saying manning and Carr are comparable as QBs - just that it does happen even without the skins.

The fact that you try to equate Carr with Manning is laughable.

See bolded above from my post you were responding to, since you apparently didn’t read it.

The point I was making is that centers and QBs often get at each other. But you know that already.

 

[StudioSaint]

In addition, as already described above, Carr received no "hate" until he did things on the field the trigger it. Wrongly yelling at Olave was the begining.

That may be true specifically for you, but it's factually inaccurate for the fan base at large.

This was started about two weeks before Carr signed with the Saints.

Will Saints stand pat at QB with...Jameis Winston?

https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/25/jameis-winston-saints-contract-2023-season-free-agency/https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/25/jameis-winston-says-he-has-one-year-left-under-contract-but-will-the-saints-keep-him/...

saintsreport.com

Intentionally or not, it touched up a fan rivalry over Carr vs Winston for Saints QB. Moderators and eventually Andrus had to intervene in that thread. Flash forward to the Super Bowl and Mardi Gras this year and the fan rivalry over Carr vs Winston is still going strong, though it shifted into the personal arena more than the football field.

This thread was started a month before Carr signed with the Saints:

Derek Carr world tour thread (updated with combine visits)

Update: Now visiting JetsUpdate: visiting with us, NYJ and CAR at the combine

saintsreport.com

There's a lot of doggedly entrenched opinions about how much Carr should be paid, if the Saints should trade for him, how good he is, and how many games he could win. People also questioned his character and motivations, again this was before he signed with the Saints. The Carr vs. Winston rivalry ran through this e thread as well and got more heated as time went on.

The reset the cap rally cry was also invoked in this thread.

Almost all of the posters complaining about Carr now were complaining about Carr then and making the same complaints then as now, all before Carr signed with the Saints or ever put on a Saints uniform.

These comments right when all signs pointed to Carr signing with the Saints were foretelling.

I'm sure the Carr debate will rage on, but it will be a relief to know he's signed when it's officially announced.​

I will support Carr but I’m not thrilled about him and if we don’t atleast make it to the second round I will be very critical honestly​

Rage on it does and being very critical it is indeed.

This little bit of information from that thread seems to have been missed, ignored, or forgotten.

From Underhill’s article:

“The Saints and Carr’s team finally started discussing numbers at the end of the week, and once it became clear everyone was on the same page, the deal came together quickly. Because in the end, for Carr, it was more about fit than money. And he proved that by taking less money from New Orleans than he may have gotten elsewhere.”

There were several other threads started before Carr signed with the Saints in which most of the people complaining Carr were making the same complaints before he even put on a Saints uniform for the first time.

Reading through all of those threads again, I noticed that the more angry posters got with each other, the more angry the complaints about Carr got. It seems that part of the anger toward Carr being the Saints QB has more to do with being angry at people for disagreeing with the complaints about Carr, as it is about Carr.

When Carr got signed, those opposed to the Saints signing Carr got angrier about Carr. Those who were opposed to the Saints restructuring Carr also seem to have gotten angrier about Carr since Carr was restructured. Also, there's been a Carr vs Rattler fan rivalry brewing since Rattler was drafted. Most of the pro-Winston camp are now pro-Rattler camp.

As someone very wisely and presciently observed:

I'm sure the Carr debate will rage on...​

 

[DSnfla]

I highly doubt I would find anyway to minimize it. The problem is I’m a real facts kind of guy. You see I live my entire life, my merit, real merit, good and bad, I’ve had to live that way to survive and to compete in my profession. I recognize BS when I see it. Frankly the amount of BS excuses for Carr is nauseating. You refuse to agree with anyone and the other guy Rex talking like he hates saints fans and wants Carr to win a Super Bowl somewhere else.

The sheer fact that excuses and then the Super Bowl comment just shows the delusion of some folks on here.

Look I get it, and I know I’ve called you out and mods disciplined me, which, I don’t see why they don’t discipline you for being a disagreeable trouble maker to every single poster on here, but maybe the truth is that you get the breaks because deep down you just want to cheer on the saints to victory. The thing about that is I do too.

But I do get it with you now, it’s been such a fall off from Brees and Payton that a lot of folks, yourself included, have let your standards of success drop from elite to mediocre, and you keep telling yourself, well it’s better than being the worst. But the biggest lie in the world is that mediocrity is better than being bad. Mediocrity grows delusion and excuses, and it can be comforting because “it could be worse”

A lot of folks have fallen into that trap here since Payton left. The only problem with that is that for the money these guys make, excellence should be expected. There is times to make the odd excuse, but you make every excuse you can for Carr.

Carr is the worst thing this deal could have right now, he’s not the future, he’s not team or fan friendly, he’s never won a playoff game and has a career losing record. You continually make the claim that it’s not all on the QB. Your wrong. The QB is the single most important position in all of pro sports. How the QB goes so will the team, and right now we have a guy that wouldn’t even entertain a pay cut or anything to help the team bring players in. He clearly wasn’t happy with the McCoys and Olaves of the world but god forbid he does anything to help add to the roster like Cam or Honey badger.

Here’s the thing, I’m not going to call you anything like I did last time. I love this place and I love most members on here, but it’s been a year or you obsessively clowning me and disagreeing with me and I’m sick of it. It seems you do this with everyone, and although I’m sure you don’t even realize it, because your intentions are good, what you’re doing is brutal to read. I think I’ve seen you agree with one or two posters in the last 3 months. That. Is. Wild.

This team needs a new QB, this is real smoke to this and it’s not going to get better, if there wasn’t smoke here Carr would shut it down, and I would respect him immensely for it. But even deep down you know Carr is a me first guy, and you can make every excuse in the books but it boils down to how much money he can make, and how little we get out of it.

The last two seasons I think he beat maybe 1 team with a winning record, maybe 2. Been injured multiple times, thrown temper tantrums to players multiple times.

Stop defending a guy that is set for life and wouldn’t give two sheets if we make the playoffs or not, because guess what, he doesn’t! He will do his best to earn his money and be gone and that’s it.

Anyone even wanting to make playoffs this year, I question their knowledge of our depth, we need a reset and the best picks possible and cap space. This isn’t solvable in a year and Carr staying a year makes this a longer process and will give CKM less leash to really do it his way.

Anyways I’m done arguing with you ever again, that’s why this post is so long, I just can’t do it anymore.

All the best

LOL of course you would that has been your M.O. all along. I don't know just how aware you are of this. Rex's comments on hoping DC goes somewhere else and wins a SB is not my sentiment. It's my wish that the Saints and DC win a SB here. If and when he's gone, he's gone. I won't really care about him other than hope he's treated better than he was but Saints fans. I don't wish for any QB of any team other than that Saints to win a SB until we are mathematically eliminated. And then I usually pull for the team with the most LA ties

That's another thing you are wrong about. I do agree with quite a few posters on here. In fact even when I disagree on a regular basis when I do I point out that normally I don't agree but on this post I do. In fact Texasjefe and I have had some heated debates, lately I have agreed with most of what he has said, AND I let him know it.

You , unlike me tend to make your displeasure known by personally insulting people. For example in this very thread you said " It would be nice if Carr had a big enough set to put these rumours to rest but instead I suspect there is truth to this and that’s why we aren’t hearing anything shut down" To say " If he had a big enough set " is a personal attack . That is the theme in a lot of your posts. Yes I'm sure the mods have disciplined you in the past. LOL so the mods should discipline me because I disagree with you???? As for me I welcome disagreement and debate , it's what this forum is all about. And I don't get breats form mods because I don't personally attack players, coaches . FO nor other posters. I may say what they posted is ridiculous but not that THEY are ridiculous

Never have I said " Well things could be worse" as a settling for how the team is playing. It's this mistaken idea that if we are not stripping the team to the bones we are not really trying to get in position to win a SB. There is no magic leap from 5-12 to SB

QB the most important position in football , you could say that maybe pitcher is in all of team sports because a pitcher can win the game all by himself.
I think you are an intelligent person but you can't truly believe that a guy that is not on the field 50% of the time and on 40% of his plays just hands the ball off to someone else is solely responsible for the winning or losing a game and getting that team to the playoffs. Yes , the QB is the most important guy on the field but it's THE most team game of ANY team game. Another point to this, if the QB throws a perfect pass to a wide open WR and he drops it and they lose the game , I guess that's the QBs fault as well? ( See Foster's drop TD pass last yr)

There is not a QB to ever play that has not had displeasure with a player on the field at some time or another. I'd be more worried if he just let it go.

Whether Carr makes 100 mil or 1 mil has no bearing on how he should be treated. He nor any other player deserves the hate that some of you have spewed upon him. It does not reflect well on the other Saints fans

Here's the last thing I will add, The Carr hate is so bad that posters are making up things to disparage him. Ilovemysaints posted that when Taysom scored 5 TDs against SEA that they were saying how much DC made the team better in effort to say that it was TH , NOT DC that won the game. LOL 1st TH did not score 5TD against the Seahawks he scored 4. But the best part is that it happened in 2022 and Carr WAS NOT EVEN ON THE TEAM.

But I know full well that I am talking to the wall

Be Happy

 

[StudioSaint]

There is not “tons” of footage because Saturday’s rookie year 1999, was Manning’s 2nd year and the Colts shocked the NFL by going 13-3. It only took Manning 1 season and the next offseason to start dominating statistically AND leading his team to wins.

The fact that you try to equate Carr with Manning is laughable.

And for the record, if Carr does end up being QB1 this year, I hope the Saints shock the NFL and he is a big part of it.

I agree. I find it just as useless and absurd as the frequent posts that would do the statistical comparisons to equate Winston's "potential" to that of Manning.

 

[StudioSaint]

Making sheet up huh?? go to the 6:40 mark

I see that more as Underhill pleading with Carr, as opposed to criticizing Carr.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Good ole Big E!

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Oh this place has a group of folks who’d never say the things they type to others.

Twitter was always bad imo. Most of it is garbage imo, I’m an old man tho from a different time.

There's nothing wrong with twitter. The ignore feature is your friend. Same with this great place!

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Well there's the problem right there. Agents and people outside of the Saints organization don't have a lot of inside information on what's going on with the team.

The agents only know what they're told by the team when having discussions regarding their client. The team-agent relationship dynamic keeps either side from giving full disclosure. I'm not saying they are lying to each other. I'm saying neither one is going to show all their cards to the other.

The same goes with people outside of the Saints organization. The Saints may share some information with them, but it's the equivalent of showing them just one card from the deck of 52. Anyone outside the Saints is engaged in a lot more unreliable tea leaves reading than they are passing on complete information.

Individual players and people in the scouting department have compartmentalized information, they don't have all the information. I doubt that Ireland is sharing info and if he is, it's very unlikely it's complete information. The same is true for all of the top level management.

The Saints are one of the most tight lipped teams. Players and low level staff are probably occasionally sharing some tidbits of information they are getting, but none of them have a full view of the big picture.

The telephone game dynamic also happens. Player or scout hears something. They interpret what they hear and share their interpretation with Underhill and Triplett. Underhill and Triplett then interpret what they heard the other person interpret and speculate based on their interpretation of an interpretation.

That's not reliable reporting. That's why real reporting involves having multiple corroborating sources on every piece of information. The audience demands information at too fast of pace to allow for that corroboration. If Underhill, Triplet or any of the other internet people tried to take the time to corroborate information, they would constantly be posting "old news" and they would lose their viewers and their income.


That's actually exactly what you are doing.


Multiple "journalist" repeating something they heard from other "journalists" is not the same as a journalist having multiple sources that corroborate their information. You are believing hearsay and gossip, not journalism.

The information you choose to believe is not coming from a journalist who corrobrated their information with multiple sources (other "journalist" repeating the same thing is not mulitple sources.)

If your location is incognito, why are you on the internet in the first place?

 

[DSnfla]

I see that more as Underhill pleading with Carr, as opposed to criticizing Carr

I see is as some of both, There was another podcast , I'll see if I can find it where he pretty much says he was stupid for doing it. And both Tripp and Brandon make fun of him saying that he yelled " Taysom " when he jumped

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

There's nothing wrong with twitter. The ignore feature is your friend. Same with this great place!

I don’t use ignore anywhere, I try my best to be open minded, try my best to see things from other points of view….even when that fails at least I can say I tried with an open mind.

And I love Twitter, I don’t let any of it get me down….each place has its bad elements (people) just like the real world, and I’m just saying there are a bunch of folks who get very brave behind a keyboard, that’s all.

 

[StudioSaint]

If your location is incognito, why are you on the internet in the first place?

Because I got lost. I knew I should've made a left turn at Albuquerque.

 

[BenBernake]

That may be true specifically for you, but it's factually inaccurate for the fan base at large.

This was started about two weeks before Carr signed with the Saints.

Will Saints stand pat at QB with...Jameis Winston?

https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/25/jameis-winston-saints-contract-2023-season-free-agency/https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/25/jameis-winston-says-he-has-one-year-left-under-contract-but-will-the-saints-keep-him/...

saintsreport.com

Intentionally or not, it touched up a fan rivalry over Carr vs Winston for Saints QB. Moderators and eventually Andrus had to intervene in that thread. Flash forward to the Super Bowl and Mardi Gras this year and the fan rivalry over Carr vs Winston is still going strong, though it shifted into the personal arena more than the football field.

This thread was started a month before Carr signed with the Saints:

Derek Carr world tour thread (updated with combine visits)

Update: Now visiting JetsUpdate: visiting with us, NYJ and CAR at the combine

saintsreport.com

There's a lot of doggedly entrenched opinions about how much Carr should be paid, if the Saints should trade for him, how good he is, and how many games he could win. People also questioned his character and motivations, again this was before he signed with the Saints. The Carr vs. Winston rivalry ran through this e thread as well and got more heated as time went on.

The reset the cap rally cry was also invoked in this thread.

Almost all of the posters complaining about Carr now were complaining about Carr then and making the same complaints then as now, all before Carr signed with the Saints or ever put on a Saints uniform.

These comments right when all signs pointed to Carr signing with the Saints were foretelling.



Rage on it does and being very critical it is indeed.

This little bit of information from that thread seems to have been missed, ignored, or forgotten.


There were several other threads started before Carr signed with the Saints in which most of the people complaining Carr were making the same complaints before he even put on a Saints uniform for the first time.

Reading through all of those threads again, I noticed that the more angry posters got with each other, the more angry the complaints about Carr got. It seems that part of the anger toward Carr being the Saints QB has more to do with being angry at people for disagreeing with the complaints about Carr, as it is about Carr.

When Carr got signed, those opposed to the Saints signing Carr got angrier about Carr. Those who were opposed to the Saints restructuring Carr also seem to have gotten angrier about Carr since Carr was restructured. Also, there's been a Carr vs Rattler fan rivalry brewing since Rattler was drafted. Most of the pro-Winston camp are now pro-Rattler camp.

As someone very wisely and presciently observed:

Wild that grown adults can get so mad with each other when talking about another man playing a game.

 

[Chuck McGill Esq.]

Nobody, except for possibly a very, very small fringe group is judging Carr because he ate at Chipotle or didn't ride in a Mardi Gras parade. All but .001 percent of fans treat the Chipotle thing as a joke and nobody has said anything about him not riding in a Mardi Gras parade. However, not being here for the Super Bowl and not being here for Mardi Gras certainly supports the idea that Carr does not want to be here.

But, you don't live here and all you know about the fanbase is social media and message boards so it's not surprising that you think those things are true. But, you have to keep in mind that you are only seeing a very small portion of the fanbase on social media or message boards.

Buddy, they just keep putting the straw man back up after it gets blown down. Over and over.