Ratings PFF has Bresee dead last in run defense…. (4 Viewers)

[Snakehead]

I agree that sometimes a young player gets too much flack, but being dead last in a category out of over 200+ players is worth keeping an eye on.

Here are the pass rush grade ranks, filtered for DT's with at least 20% of max pass rush snaps (120 players total):

30. Nathan Shepherd
67. Khalen Saunders
77. Bryan Bresee

Here are the former Saints:

51. Malcom Roach
61. David Onyemata
79. Kentavius Street
106. Shy Tuttle

Shepherd has been a good value pass rush wise, and Bresee is in a good spot for his experience level. For those wondering why Bresee would be ranked so low despite the sacks, it's likely driven by win rate--how often does he beat the guy in front of him. Coming free on a stunt won't give as high a grade as beating the guy in front of you before the QB can complete his dropback. Bresee is 81st for win rate at 6.1% (Shepherd is 34th at 9.9%). The league leader is Milton Williams at 18.5%, followed closely by Chris Jones at 18.1%.

DT's take longer to develop than other positions. All of the guys you listed are veterans in their prime who have had time to develop. I'll be curious to see what Bresee's grade is when he's in his prime a few seasons from now.

 

[Sumdude34]

Let me start with - you dont let a DT that is this good at rushing the passer leave the building.

As far as the run game, yes he's bad at it. But, he's also being hung out to dry often times having to line up at NT or strong side DT.

He really should be a rotational pass rusher until he gets better at the run like was last year, but everyone else is just as bad at it, so I guess they figure why not throw him out there.

 

[MikeyF]

^^This. It's the reason Mason Graham should be the pick at 9 or 10 (whichever it is) if he's there.

He can be our Fuaga on Defense!

He is the one player in the draft that we should move up to get!

 

[MikeyF]

Let me start with - you dont let a DT that is this good at rushing the passer leave the building.

As far as the run game, yes he's bad at it. But, he's also being hung out to dry often times having to line up at NT or strong side DT.

He really should be a rotational pass rusher until he gets better at the run like was last year, but everyone else is just as bad at it, so I guess they figure why not throw him out there.

When you watch him play, you always see him giving great effort.
Because of this he will get better against the run.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

I know we dismiss PFF a lot, do we think this grade is off?

I see Bresee talked up here as a pass rusher (he’s also not graded well there either) but do you guys and gals think he can improve in the run game? 6th in sacks is nice but he has to improve in run defense imo.

Bryan Bresee | New Orleans Saints DI | NFL and PFF stats

NFL and PFF player stats for New Orleans Saints DI Bryan Bresee on Pro Football Focus.

www.pff.com

This sums of Bresee perfectly. On paper he might look like a solid piece but if you watch his actual gameplay he's been quite bad.

Pass rush winrate is extremely low and he constantly gets dominated in the run game.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

There’s a reason Abdullah, who if I heard correctly hasn’t had a 100 yard game in his career (he was drafted in 2015) went for 100+ and almost 6 ypc on us. Dude had 1/3rd of his season rushing against the Saints. Breese isn’t the only reason, but yes, he’s that bad against the run.

I just wonder if he can and it will improve there.?.?

How's his pass rushers grade? Let's grade the incomplete young developing player who is working on that part of his game. He also doesn't have a legit NT next to him. I don’t know why this fanbase likes to highlight the negative aspects of young developing players.

It’s included in the post. Oddly average, seems low as his sacks are ranked 6th from the IDL spot.


I’ll just carry the water and not post anything but rainbows about any Saints players, no matter what. Also, I’ll make sure to never ask a question about any player on the team, on one of the message boards about the team.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I agree that sometimes a young player gets too much flack, but being dead last in a category out of over 200+ players is worth keeping an eye on.

Here are the pass rush grade ranks, filtered for DT's with at least 20% of max pass rush snaps (120 players total):

30. Nathan Shepherd
67. Khalen Saunders
77. Bryan Bresee

Here are the former Saints:

51. Malcom Roach
61. David Onyemata
79. Kentavius Street
106. Shy Tuttle

Shepherd has been a good value pass rush wise, and Bresee is in a good spot for his experience level. For those wondering why Bresee would be ranked so low despite the sacks, it's likely driven by win rate--how often does he beat the guy in front of him. Coming free on a stunt won't give as high a grade as beating the guy in front of you before the QB can complete his dropback. Bresee is 81st for win rate at 6.1% (Shepherd is 34th at 9.9%). The league leader is Milton Williams at 18.5%, followed closely by Chris Jones at 18.1%.

It certainly is worth keeping an eye on, and asking questions.

And I’m not saying you pointed that finger at me, but I didn’t give the player any flack. I literally simply posted a stat, and asked a question.

That morphed into (according to one poster) “pointing out the negative about a young ascending player.”

Fascinating.

I’m a fan of Bresee and hope he can improve vs the run. At least better than 218/218 in the league.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

This doesn't come as a surprise. Run defense was always the knock on him and to make matters worse he's not playing next to a man beast who cannot be blocked by traditional means. It will be interesting to see if he gets better with experience and hopefully more talent around him. It's possible that he never excels in the run game but I can live with it just as long as he's getting after the QB and disrupting the pocket. A lot of 3 techs have made a living doing the best they can against the run but wreaking havoc against the pass.

It would be nice if we had enough talent to keep guys fresh and play to their strengths. We were so obscenely loaded up front back in the days of David Onyemata, Sheldon Rankins, Malcom Brown, and Shy Tuttle. Up front we had an answer for whatever the offense was trying to do. Sigh...those were the days.

I’ve missed Brown tremendously (as has our run d) since the day he left.

 

[BreesusSaves]

How exactly do you figure Bresee is being wasted?

He's not being developed. He's not playing with consistent leverage. He's not able to disengage from blockers. The technique in his rookie film is the same as his sophomore film. I'm having PTSD of the Bill Johnson days when no one ever developed, guys played the same technique every snap every season. Just no growth. That's for sure a talent being wasted.

 

[mdharper]

Bresee is playing out of position

 

[Saint Greg]

Meanwhile, that bum Onyemata that we ran out of town is ranked 22nd for run defense among DI after being ranked 7th the year before.

Here's how all of our DT's rank when using the PFF filter for a players with 20% of the max run defense snaps (149 players):

86. Khalen Saunders
141. John Ridgeway
145. Nathan Shepherd
149. Bryan Bresee

That's three guys in the bottom ten. Here's how former Saints are doing:

22. David Onyemata
32. Kentavius Street
46. Malcom Roach
139. Shy Tuttle

Upgrades.

I think we wanted to keep Onyemata but we were cutting cap and he signed for 12mil/yr which I think everyone around here thought was an overpay.

 

[St. Geezy]

Meanwhile, that bum Onyemata that we ran out of town is ranked 22nd for run defense among DI after being ranked 7th the year before.

Here's how all of our DT's rank when using the PFF filter for a players with 20% of the max run defense snaps (149 players):

86. Khalen Saunders
141. John Ridgeway
145. Nathan Shepherd
149. Bryan Bresee

That's three guys in the bottom ten. Here's how former Saints are doing:

22. David Onyemata
32. Kentavius Street
46. Malcom Roach
139. Shy Tuttle

Upgrades.

We are really just not developing players well or maximizing their talents. It’s horrendous.

Perhaps the Dennis Allen effect was hurting us in ways not seen even during the SP era. I know we bash him as a HC, but perhaps he really wasn’t all that great at defense either and it just got masked a bit by the talent.

 

[RJS]

I think we wanted to keep Onyemata but we were cutting cap and he signed for 12mil/yr which I think everyone around here thought was an overpay.

I think it was because we franchise tagged Marcus Williams which was a horrible decision. They still may have let Onyemata walk but they could have made the money work.

 

[Cajun Mike]

How exactly do you figure Bresee is being wasted?

He explained, I don’t know how much more he can detail it. Oh you didn’t see that last game!

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I think we wanted to keep Onyemata but we were cutting cap and he signed for 12mil/yr which I think everyone around here thought was an overpay.

Think this is correct. Loved Onyemata.

We are really just not developing players well or maximizing their talents. It’s horrendous.

Perhaps the Dennis Allen effect was hurting us in ways not seen even during the SP era. I know we bash him as a HC, but perhaps he really wasn’t all that great at defense either and it just got masked a bit by the talent.

I still think he’s great with the secondary. Or at least very good.