Retread Head Coaches (4 Viewers)

[St. Geezy]

What are you talking about? That 96 Patriots team wasn't bad at all. Drew Bledsoe, Curtis Martin, Troy Brown, Terry Glenn, Willie McGinest, Tedi Bruschi, Ty Law, Layer Milloy, Adam Venetieri. A lot of very good players on that team, many of which would be the base for the 2000's / Brady / Belichek teams. Sir your definition of God-awful and mine are apparently different.

I am talking about their status when Parcells got there. He built them up.

Of course I know the team that was actually in the SB had good players. Come on now. lol

Didn’t think I needed to spell out something that obvious.

They won 2 games the year before he got there, and were so bad that even he, a coaching wizard, could only get them to 5-11 in his first year.

 

[2009ring]

I am talking about their status when Parcells got there. He built them up.

Of course I know the team that was actually in the SB had good players. Come on now. lol

Didn’t think I needed to spell out something that obvious.

They won 2 games the year before he got there, and were so bad that even he, a coaching wizard, could only get them to 5-11 in his first year.

Fair enough, maybe I mis-understood it when I read it the first time. Wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last LOL.

 

[OzzieSaint]

I'd be OK with Mike McCarthy.
I honestly feel like the stars are aligning for Glenn to be in NY and I think Brady needs some more experience as an OC before jumping to HC.

Mike McCarthy has a proven record of winning seasons, making playoffs and winning a SB.
You can't just completely ignore the history behind him and say he only won because he had prime Rodgers otherwise with that logic SP was only good because of Brees.

I know a lot of people here love SP, and I'm one of them and am super grateful for what he did while he was here, and most of us would take him back if we could. MM is the closest thing out there that resembles SP.

 

[ATLien]

Another way to look at it...
Coaches that won a SB with one team, then lost the SB with another were one game...ONE, from winning 2 SBs.
It's hard to dismiss a guy's body of work based on one loss.

 

[St. Geezy]

Another way to look at it...
Coaches that won a SB with one team, then lost the SB with another were one game...ONE, from winning 2 SBs.
It's hard to dismiss a guy's body of work based on one loss.

No way man. It’s all or nothing around here. A coach navigates a NFL season, wins a conference title and gets his team to within minutes of a SB title…no big deal. Failure; the guys that have never been a HC before and that I myself haven’t interviewed or vetted offer better odds.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

For me its pretty much Brady and anyone else is a let down pick. We just know what we're getting in McCarthy and I don't think it has any shot at equalling a superbowl.

But for some odd reason, I can't shake this feeling that we're gonna run it back with Rizzi for the next few years. Watching him as interim head coach, I'm left with the impression that it wouldn't be any better then Dennis Allen and we'll be fighting at the end of the season just to be a .500 team.

 

[Clintonrebel]

I remember the days when experience played a huge part in a hiring process. Now, everyone is drawn to the new shiny toys. Not saying I want a former HC bc I am very open to someone with no HC experience. I just don’t think the old heads should be easily dismissed

Yep, and the reality is that a team's record nowadays is more reflective of the QB than of the coach. Its a pass happy league and the rules are slanted in a way that you can't compare these candidates with Bum Phillips. You either have a franchise QB or you don't.

 

[Ken-Bob]

Really good thread.

My take is, if you're going to go for a retread, at least get one that was successful with their previous team. Allen was NOT that guy. There are always outliers, of course. Belichick and Carroll are the only ones I can think of off-hand who failed at previous HC jobs then later succeeded (I'm sure there are others). But McCarthy was successful. He was arguably successful with the Cowboys (they got better with him there - but Jerry will Jerry). So what about the Saints? Honestly, the chances of the next coach winning a SB are virtually none. I saw a video earlier today analyzing the various teams looking for coaches and how the Saints are the worst one due to the salary cap issues. The commentator pointed out that the Saints are, at best, two years from fielding competitive talent and, by that time, the fans will be chomping at the bit (let's remember that one, okay - as fans we need to be patient also).

I know that many are wanting Loomis to go as well, but let's remember that he was the one who saw the potential in Sean Payton. I remember when Payton was hired and a lot of people were like... WHO??? Loomis said he liked Payton's organization skills and attention to detail. Loomis is responsible for the salary cap hell the team is currently in, but he did it with good intentions, IMO. I think there's a strong chance he'll use the same logic in hiring the next coach (even though he didn't with Allen).

In the process of writing this, I've actually convinced myself that McCarthy might actually be the best hire. Why? Because he's already won a SB. His legacy would be best served by helping to get the Saints back into contention over the next 3 years or so. And I really don't think he's going to try and convince management that there's some silver bullet that will lead to a championship (which is what I think Allen did with Carr - and that alone set this team back by at least 1 extra year).

 

[St. Geezy]

For me its pretty much Brady and anyone else is a let down pick. We just know what we're getting in McCarthy

So you’d prefer the unknown guy coaching elite talent but never as a HC over a guy that’s won a Super Bowl and made another team a consistent contender with top 5 offenses in recent years?

A guy you yourself haven’t interviewed or vetted or figured out how he would lead and only have a stat sheet of loaded offenses he’s happened to have coached to go by?

I guess I just don’t understand the logic here. Honest question - what makes Brady so special to you?

 

[OzzieSaint]

So you’d prefer the unknown guy coaching elite talent by never as an HC over a guy that’s won a Super Bowl and made another team a consistent contender with top 5 offenses in recent years?

A guy you yourself haven’t interviewed or vetted or figured out how he would lead and only have a stat sheet of loaded offenses he’s happened to have coached to go by?

I guess I just don’t understand the logic here. Honest question - what makes Brady so special to you?

I agree... and in the post you replied to, it says "We just know what we're getting in McCarthy"
What's that? A former SB winning HC with a successful winning career at both teams he's coach for. Sounds good to me.

I don't understand the Brady love... not yet anyway. Besides from him being a former LSU passing game coordinator (with Burrow) and WR coach (Justin Jefferson and Ja'Marr Chase) and working on the Saints staff, I would have barely heard of him.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

So you’d prefer the unknown guy coaching elite talent by never as an HC over a guy that’s won a Super Bowl and made another team a consistent contender with top 5 offenses in recent years?

A guy you yourself haven’t interviewed or vetted or figured out how he would lead and only have a stat sheet of loaded offenses he’s happened to have coached to go by?

I guess I just don’t understand the logic here. Honest question - what makes Brady so special to you?

With these answers, keep in mind my eyes are on Super Bowls and Championship games. Making the playoffs is fun, but... I want to be one of the last 4 teams standing as consistently as possible.

What makes Brady special to me? - I recognize that franchise QB's are essential for repeat runs deep into the playoffs. In fact, if you look at the teams most likely to repeatedly making Championship appearances, the two things they have in common is a great head coach and a franchise QB. Brady, has a knack for QB's having their best year under him going back to college years. Even in Carolina, Bridgewater was having a career year. Theres one single season that didn't work well and that was with Sam Darnold, who mind you, also just cost the Vikings with his awful play with Kevin O'Connell at the helm and we know how good Kevin O'Connell is.

Burrow credits his growth to Brady. Bridgwater has a career year under him. Darnold tanks and was forced by Matt Rhule, and Brady then elevates Josh Allen to MVP and Allen very clearly wants to keep him in Buffalo. On top of that, no matter what defense Brady's offenses are up against, he finds ways for his offense to put up points. Usually a lot.

This gives reason to the idea that if Brady is head coach, at worst we will be similar to the 08 Saints. Putting up points but can't play defense. Given his success of elevating QB's, it also gives reason that he stands a decent shot at helping the franchise find a franchise QB, and grooming him even if Brady doesn't work out as HC. The next one in theory will have a franchise QB to open up our potential searches for coaches. Is that a risk to not work out? Absolutely. But a franchise QB is worth it imo. If Brady could not find us a top 10 QB, whether its by grooming Rattler or drafting or free agency (hopefully someone under 30), then that to me would be a bust. I like the odds though. And let me very clear about this. I don't believe for 1 minute that Mahomes would be Mahoming the way Mahomes does Mahomes if he had gone to the Raiders, or Browns or Patriots. Reid and Kelce had really, really, really big influences on his growth.

Having a guy who's never coached before tends to come with a big drive. So when I see a coach who has elevated offenses greatly wherever hes been and now wants a head coaching job, the odds seem in favor of success of at least being highly competitive. Throwing in the NFL becoming offensive driven more so then defense and franchise QB's becoming necessary, it all begins to add up.

Now, my question of wanting a new first time head coach over a guy who's won a SuperBowl. No. The NFL changes drastically, usually around every 5-7 years. The game keeps evolving. For that reason, I like to look back the past 5-7 years. McCarthy has not won a superbowl in around 15 years. That's double the lifespan of evolution in the NFL. So to me, I immediately throw out everything going back that far. The most impressive times for someone like McCarthy was around 2010. After 2014, Green Bay started as a struggling team, especially in post-seasons. Now some people want to blame that on Rodgers. But we saw it in Dallas also. 1-3 in post-seasons.

Another point, who can work with average to below average QB's? that question was somewhat answered with Joe Brady when Teddy Bridgewater was QB for Carolina and having a career year. The Panthers offense put up 350 pts. But Carolina finished 5-11, because the defense allowed 402. So we know Brady can work with average to below average QB's. Can McCarthy? Well. Going back 10 years. McCarthy also has an unknown. All of his successes have occurred with a top 10 QB. The moment that went away, so did his offense. He struggled entirely. Look at Cooper Rush. The injury to Prescott couldn't be helped and is unfortunate. If that hadn't happened, its very possible MM wouldn't even be a candidate and a deal would've gotten worked out. But he couldn't make Cooper Rush relevant. Brady made Bridgewater relevant. And soon, whether its this year or the next or even the one after that, our selected coach is either going to need to make Rattler relevant or find someone else. We can even go back to 2017 when Rodgers missed half the season. Hundley super struggled and McCarthy had loads of troubles getting the offense to work with Hundley. So maybe McCarthy isn't an unknown when it comes to not having top 10 QBs.

I know people love to compare Payton and McCarthy. And someone will say "But Payton didn't win a superbowl even longer, would you turn him down?" and the answer is no. Because in 2020 Payton still made the playoffs with Brees injured, then in 2021 nearly got us to the playoffs with a 9-8 record playing QB carousel which is impressive. Then he just took the leagues ranked least talented NFL team and made the playoffs with a rookie QB. The two, despite what many say looking at career wins and losses, are not remote close to the same.

There are currently 4 teams who need head coaches. We're the only ones considering McCarthy, while Brady is now supposedly being pursued by the Jags after Coen resigning with Tampa. Why is that? If McCarthy is so proven don't you think at least 4 out of the 7 teams who needed a head coach would look to him? Only none did except Saints and Bears. What do the two have in common? Their last head coaching decisions were absolutely atrocious. So ya, I'm basically saying I don't trust Loomis in this process. I find it extremely unlikely that anyone thinking Dennis Allen as a head coach was a good idea most assuredly wouldn't make the similair mistake again.

All of this makes Brady the obvious choice for me. And that's not even getting into when front office officials for Green Bay criticized what his play calling and game planning has turned into which only raises my concern for MM. And Dallas had a pretty stacked team in terms of talent. In fact you could argue that the only position we were better in was RB because of Kamara vs Rico.

 

[Snakehead]

With these answers, keep in mind my eyes are on Super Bowls and Championship games. Making the playoffs is fun, but... I want to be one of the last 4 teams standing as consistently as possible.

What makes Brady special to me? - I recognize that franchise QB's are essential for repeat runs deep into the playoffs. In fact, if you look at the teams most likely to repeatedly making Championship appearances, the two things they have in common is a great head coach and a franchise QB. Brady, has a knack for QB's having their best year under him going back to college years. Even in Carolina, Bridgewater was having a career year. Theres one single season that didn't work well and that was with Sam Darnold, who mind you, also just cost the Vikings with his awful play with Kevin O'Connell at the helm and we know how good Kevin O'Connell is.

Burrow credits his growth to Brady. Bridgwater has a career year under him. Darnold tanks and was forced by Matt Rhule, and Brady then elevates Josh Allen to MVP and Allen very clearly wants to keep him in Buffalo. On top of that, no matter what defense Brady's offenses are up against, he finds ways for his offense to put up points. Usually a lot.

This gives reason to the idea that if Brady is head coach, at worst we will be similar to the 08 Saints. Putting up points but can't play defense. Given his success of elevating QB's, it also gives reason that he stands a decent shot at helping the franchise find a franchise QB, and grooming him even if Brady doesn't work out as HC. The next one in theory will have a franchise QB to open up our potential searches for coaches. Is that a risk to not work out? Absolutely. But a franchise QB is worth it imo.

Having a guy who's never coached before tends to come with a big drive. So when I see a coach who has elevated offenses greatly wherever hes been and now wants a head coaching job, the odds seem in favor of success of at least being highly competitive.

Now, my question of wanting a new first time head coach over a guy who's won a SuperBowl. No. The NFL changes drastically, usually around every 5-7 years. The game keeps evolving. For that reason, I like to look back the past 5-7 years. McCarthy has no won a superbowl in around 15 years. That's double the lifespan of evolution in the NFL. So to me, I immediately throw out everything going back that far. The most impressive times for someone like McCarthy was around 2010. After 2014, Green Bay started as a struggling team, especially in post-seasons. Now some people want to blame that on Rodgers. But we saw it in Dallas also. 1-3 in post-seasons.

There are currently 4 teams who need head coaches. We're the only ones considering McCarthy, while Brady is now supposedly being pursued by the Jags after Coen resigning with Tampa. Why is that? If McCarthy is so proven don't you think at least 4 out of the 7 teams who needed a head coach would look to him? Only none did except Saints and Bears. What do the two have in common? Their last head coaching decisions were absolutely atrocious. So ya, I'm basically saying I don't trust Loomis in this process. I find it extremely unlikely that anyone thinking Dennis Allen as a head coach was a good idea.

All of this makes Brady the obvious choice for me. And that's not even getting into when front office officials for Green Bay criticized what his play calling and game planning has turned into which raises my concern for MM.

You described a QB Coach and OC. What has he shown to be a HC and lead and entire team?

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

HOT TAKE! I'm not sure if any of you have heard this, but no coach has won a Super Bowl for two different teams!

Does this have any relevance to anything? Probably nothing more than an interesting bit of trivia, but I bet a whole bunch of theories can be weaved from it. Enjoy.

 

[SuperSaint]

This retread won 43 games over the past four years. That’s better than most of the coaches we’ve hired retread or otherwise.

That's a great point.

If you compare the records of Payton and Mccarthy, they're almost identical.

 

[OzzieSaint]

That's a great point.

If you compare the records of Payton and Mccarthy, they're almost identical.

see my post above on this page for the comparison.