RIP Toby Keith (1 Viewer)

[DaveXA]

Pee, in the proper quantities (minus Cheerios), would float many a boat, no?

Well, considering houseboats, yeah.

 

[Saintman2884]

I would agree, not today. The exchange occurred at Willie Nelson’s 70th birthday party concert.

I don’t know if Toby Keith ever moderated the stance that provoked Kristofferson to respond as he did. Like I said, I’m not really a fan but no one should go out wracked with pain from cancer treatment.

Terps, except, Kristofferson's little rant kind of falls flat when you realize he never killed anyone in a war zone for his country or for anything else? Sure, he served in the military, that's great, I'm grateful but so did Elvis Presley, Jeff Bridges, and yeah even, Rick James until he went AWOL, but he never fought or served in Vietnam or any other war? Adam Driver was a hard core, Fight Club fan-loving enthusiast growing up in rural Indiana who volunteered and was accepted as a Marine after 9/1 and if it hadn't been for a non-combat related injury IIRC, in January 2003 that led to a honorable discharge, he very likely would have fought and possibly been killed in Operation Iraqi Freedom a few months later.

Celebrities like Lee Marvin, Michael Caine, however did, and if they were to give this sort of speech, it would have INFINITELY more resonance with me.

 

[Saintman2884]

i promise i'm not trying to be obtuse, but why?

like, Woody Allen was an alltime favorite of mine - now I don't watch any of his movies bc they seemed to be fueled by his misanthropy (for lack of a better word) - when he passes, should i overlook all the ick just so i can rewatch Manhattan unencumbered? why?

I can watch and enjoy a lot of Sean Penn's movies, same with Tim Robbins, and quite a few other celebrities even if I disagree with quite a few of their socio-political views. Their great, legendary actors and should be appreciated as such.

I can even admire their willingness and courage to speak out on highly sensitive issues on principle, even though I might disagree with some of it.

BTW, what's your take on Bill Cosby since we're discussing now-discredited once-famous, beloved comedians, actors, adored and iconic celebrity figures who were secretly, sexually assaulting, molesting and date raping countless women over the course of 4 decades? Can or should we seperate the art from the artist?

 

[Semper]

FWIW, if Misty wants to get technical, does he know that while Kristofferson served as a military instructor at West Point, as far as I know, he didnt serve in Vietnam or any other war zone or military-style operation, so he himself never killed anyone, or killed another man in combat for his country. He was stationed with the 8th Infantry Division in West Germany in the early 60's and was a helicopter pilot. Jeff Bridges served as a reserve Coast Guardsmen in the early-mid 70's but unlike Kristofferson's rant here, never claimed to have killed anyone or served near any war zone

Lee Marvin, however, on the other hand.. Michael Caine too, BTW, served as a British sergeant major in the Korean War

Well this thread is derailed like so many others. And that’s ok. I don’t believe anyone shouldn’t be allowed to give their thoughts on a subject. Let’s face it if we could only discuss things we have first hand experience in this message board would be pretty quiet. I dislike doing this on a message topic like this though. And I would guess I have been guilty of it as well, maybe.

But let’s be honest this isn’t about anything other than bashing a country singer for being patriotic. Too my knowledge there’s no scandal about TK. He hasn’t broken any laws. He loved his country. It doesn’t mean he has to serve.

Kristofferson gave up on the military because he was drawn to Nashville. He did serve and I respect him for that and thank him for setting aside a few years of his life to serve and give back to his country.

Keith motivated a lot of his troops and veterans with his song. What veteran or active duty service member wouldn’t like these lines…

“I'm an American soldier, an American
Beside my brothers and my sisters
I will proudly take a stand
When liberty's in jeopardy
I will always do what's right
I'm out here on the front lines
Sleep in peace tonight
American soldier, I'm an American soldier“

 

[Bleu Raeder]

But let’s be honest this isn’t about anything other than bashing a country singer

The Dixie Chicks would like a word.


And...TO BE FAIR....the DC and TK buried the hatchet, after a while.

But, exercise caution here before this veers wildly off the rails. No one should suffer in the kind of pain that cancer can bring. No one. I don't care what your politics are, have been or will be. No one deserves what cancer brings to them or their families. No one in this thread disagrees with that.

It is also OK to disagree with the politics of the dead. You can do so without making a thinly veiled political statement in this thread (or any other on this board). If you wish to have that discussion, have it elsewhere.

 

[Bill]

Kristofferson served as a military instructor at West Point... and was a helicopter pilot.

I don't know much about Kris Kristofferson outside of his music career, but I do know that he once worked as a helicopter pilot for PHI (Petroleum Helicopters, Inc. of Lafayette, LA) with whom I was also employed.

 

[DaveXA]

And this is why I'm not a fan of pot stirrers. More focused on some side quest rather than this is a thread about a guy who passed away because of stomach cancer and instead we're talking about someone else. Meh.

 

[Semper]

The Dixie Chicks would like a word.


And...TO BE FAIR....the DC and TK buried the hatchet, after a while.

But, exercise caution here before this veers wildly off the rails. No one should suffer in the kind of pain that cancer can bring. No one. I don't care what your politics are, have been or will be. No one deserves what cancer brings to them or their families. No one in this thread disagrees with that.

It is also OK to disagree with the politics of the dead. You can do so without making a thinly veiled political statement in this thread (or any other on this board). If you wish to have that discussion, have it elsewhere.

And if one of the DC’s died I wouldn’t come on the a thread and talk about anything related to their politics.

 

[DaveXA]

And if one of the DC’s died I wouldn’t come on the a thread and talk about anything related to their politics.

Indeed. People can wait a day or a few to give their spiel on a given person. If it's someone I don't like at all, I just avoid the thread for a few days at least.

I guess I'm old fashioned tho. I was taught not to speak ill of the dead. Not saying people shouldn't ever do it, but respect others for at least a bit.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I can watch and enjoy a lot of Sean Penn's movies, same with Tim Robbins, and quite a few other celebrities even if I disagree with quite a few of their socio-political views. Their great, legendary actors and should be appreciated as such.

I can even admire their willingness and courage to speak out on highly sensitive issues on principle, even though I might disagree with some of it.

BTW, what's your take on Bill Cosby since we're discussing now-discredited once-famous, beloved comedians, actors, adored and iconic celebrity figures who were secretly, sexually assaulting, molesting and date raping countless women over the course of 4 decades? Can or should we seperate the art from the artist?

1st i'm calling light shenanigans - if/when Sean Penn (et al) passes and we are all still here to recognize I am fairly certain that you would feel free to share the context of their creative/social/private life

2nd separating the artists from the art is obviously a judgement call - your analogy (hollywood libs) seems more akin to the way i feel about Clint Eastwood - don't think much of his politics but love him as a performer/director (same with James Woods, et al though Woods is a much lesser talent)

Woody Allen/Bill Cosby are different beasts altogether - i see no issues removing the works of actual rapists from the content i consume - like they committed actual, physical, felonious harm
otoh there is someone like Mel Gibson, whose hate is so venomous it seems to cause actual harm - i consume no mel gibson content

none of which says why on the day of his passing it's problematic to say 'i agreed' with the Dixie Chicks
while acknowledging that TK came close to making the feud 'right'

 

[saintmdterps]

I don't know much about Kris Kristofferson outside of his music career, but I do know that he once worked as a helicopter pilot for PHI (Petroleum Helicopters, Inc. of Lafayette, LA) with whom I was also employed.

When he was struggling to make inroads in Nashville, Kristofferson stole a helicopter and landed in Johnny Cash’s front yard. His career “took off” after that

 

[saintmdterps]

The Dixie Chicks would like a word.


And...TO BE FAIR....the DC and TK buried the hatchet, after a while.

But, exercise caution here before this veers wildly off the rails. No one should suffer in the kind of pain that cancer can bring. No one. I don't care what your politics are, have been or will be. No one deserves what cancer brings to them or their families. No one in this thread disagrees with that.

It is also OK to disagree with the politics of the dead. You can do so without making a thinly veiled political statement in this thread (or any other on this board). If you wish to have that discussion, have it elsewhere.

And that I’m aware of, no one here is better qualified to state the highlighted portion of your post.

I agree completely. Toby Keith passed away from one of the more painful forms of cancer. By most accounts he was a decent person. He and his family have my sympathy.

 

[saintmdterps]

It is quite exceptional.

Where is this list? I think I may have seen it in a prior thread…

 

[porculator]

Well this thread is derailed like so many others. And that’s ok. I don’t believe anyone shouldn’t be allowed to give their thoughts on a subject. Let’s face it if we could only discuss things we have first hand experience in this message board would be pretty quiet. I dislike doing this on a message topic like this though. And I would guess I have been guilty of it as well, maybe.

But let’s be honest this isn’t about anything other than bashing a country singer for being patriotic. Too my knowledge there’s no scandal about TK. He hasn’t broken any laws. He loved his country. It doesn’t mean he has to serve.

Kristofferson gave up on the military because he was drawn to Nashville. He did serve and I respect him for that and thank him for setting aside a few years of his life to serve and give back to his country.

Keith motivated a lot of his troops and veterans with his song. What veteran or active duty service member wouldn’t like these lines…

“I'm an American soldier, an American
Beside my brothers and my sisters
I will proudly take a stand
When liberty's in jeopardy
I will always do what's right
I'm out here on the front lines
Sleep in peace tonight
American soldier, I'm an American soldier“

You can't talk about Toby Keith without talking about his connection to the troops. He was one of the most committed USO performers out there, and some of his songs were literally written for the troops, as opposed to just "playing the hits." Like with any artist, his intended audience needs to be considered.

He was a smart dude with a lot of range, he just didn't use it for his rah rah USA songs, because that wasn't the point.

He also has a very underrated Christmas album.

 

[SystemShock]

i've never really understood why this is valued - why is that something to be admired?

I don't know if admiration is the right sentiment, but I can see the value in people saying what's in their mind... not value in what they say, but that they say it, because then you know exactly what you are working with.