Saints Cap Moves: $33,780,933 cap space ….. 8 restructures, 3 extensions, 3 pay cut, 1 release [All current cap moves are in OP below line] (124 Viewers)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Please correct me if I am wrong but I do not remember Carr ever being a male content! I remember him getting benched and then moved but I cannot recall if it was attitude related or play related.
Carr hs not done anything so far that tells me he has been the wrong. He refused a pay cut but let’s be honest in that his contract was a very good contract when we signed him. His cap is only as high due to Loomis restructuring it. Had it been left alone his cap would have been lower. Carr still earns a normal QB salary and is in the top 50% of QB’s playing. Many fans forget that restructure dollars drives up future caps but generally ends up being the same average over the length of the contract.

I think at this point he is the best option as a bridge QB. Younger guys can still learn a lot from him especially his mistakes or shortcomings.

I don’t disagree.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

That table does show the almost hidden constraints of our cap. We are second to last in actual cash spending for 2025, at $195m. Two teams neighboring us in cap space are spending around $50m more each, and they both have more restructuring capacity than we do should they decide to go that route.

More spending doesn't necessarily equal more wins, but the result of an all in strategy is the need to wind down spending for a few years to get back to normal. Still crazy that we went all in with DA. Cash spending ranks by year:

2022 - 5th
2023 - 9th
2024 - 23rd
2025 - 31st

My theory on 2022 and 2023 is that Mickey truly believed that Allen was capable of being a bridge from Payton and maintaining status quo.

So did the majority of the fan base.

 

[Boy_of_wonder75]

For you lovers of cosmetic cap space...

Th 9ers have nearly 80 million dollars in dead cap? The Seahawks 67 million? The Eagles 55? People need to calm down about Loomis.

 

[Rouxble]

Wouldn’t you agree that this is a product of us not executing the contracts with guys we bid on though?

A couple of $20+ million signing bonuses makes this look completely different.

We could, as could other teams, but I think that goes against Loomis' stated goal of getting things closer to normal. There is always a limit, and he has stayed further away from it these last two years to make up for 2022 and 2023. In terms of max potential cap space available with restructures, we sit at 31st on that list, so our limit is closer than most. It's a mix of bad teams (ex. Browns @ 28th and Jaguars @ 29th) and good teams (ex. Bills @ 30th and Eagles @ 32nd) in a similar effective capacity situation.

The Browns and Jags should probably desperately claw their way out, the Eagles and Bills should likely keep it rolling, and we likely should aim for an approach somewhere in the middle until we turn the corner and get back into the playoffs. Edit to add that Loomis appears to be in that middle zone, still seeking out solid free agents without signing top of market guys.

 

[St. Geezy]

We could, as could other teams, but I think that goes against Loomis' stated goal of getting things closer to normal. There is always a limit, and he has stayed further away from it these last two years to make up for 2022 and 2023. In terms of max potential cap space available with restructures, we sit at 31st on that list, so our limit is closer than most. It's a mix of bad teams (ex. Browns @ 28th and Jaguars @ 29th) and good teams (ex. Bills @ 30th and Eagles @ 32nd) in a similar effective capacity situation.

The Browns and Jags should probably desperately claw their way out, the Eagles and Bills should likely keep it rolling, and we likely should aim for an approach somewhere in the middle until we turn the corner and get back into the playoffs. Edit to add that Loomis appears to be in that middle zone, still seeking out solid free agents without signing top of market guys.

Would you agree though that the system and results sort of represent what I have been preaching, that the cap is a 5 year rolling accounting project? There are high years on that cash spend list and now we are in a low area. You can’t just spend endlessly, and every so often you have to pay the piper, specifically if you’ve made too many bad choices that you have to roll back.

My point all along for months hasn’t been that it’s some sort of superior system, just that it isn’t necessarily the hinderance it is made out to be. In the end, it’s the football choices you make that decide how good you are, specifically as it pertains to coaching and the draft. I view the cap more so as a project to fit your football decisions (hits and misses) into, but when you miss too much, yes you will be left in a tough spot just like anyone else that does.

 

[Rexman100]

Nope. I'm right with you in line of thinking. Something is not right. Carr seems like he fell off the face of the planet. Every restructure of any decently big name usually gets questioned by media or puts out a public relations statement similar to "So Blessed, Thank you, I love it here". But the starting QB? Crickets. Nowhere to be seen or heard from. Journalists can't even get a hold of him. Most leaders of teams are already back at work, can be seen training on fields, gyms etc. Carr? Nothing.

The kicker, is the Saints also have options. Trading up into top 5. Or trading up from 2nd, back into the 1st. Targeting Jeanty and rolling with Rattler while trading Carr for capitol next year to target a QB. Ward or Dart this year. Heck, he even may like McCord or Gabriel for all we know. The options are nearly boundless.

I'm not going to pretend I have any idea on what it is. But I know something is not right with Carr. At this point it seems almost as if he won't be under center come week 1, or if he is it'll be a similar situation to Carson Palmer who really wanted gone from the Raiders and played, prepared for games with half measure attempts before going to Arizona.

And remember, this is the season of misdirection's. We see it every year and have for decades. This is no different. So don't assume anything based on rumors. Anyone from Saints or reporting on saints saying "They love this guy, they don't like that guy" is either full of junk or being played. It also applies to players currently on the roster, not just in the draft. And as for "insiders", I can promise you this. If any "insider" gets a truthful scoop about who we're drafting or who we want, then the Saints have massive problems in the front office. Loomis already learned first hand with Mahomes what occurs when talk leaves the war room

Just a little added info. Mickey never goes “all in” He gets to a point in negotiations then bails. He refuses to overpay, and it’s a good thing most of the time. We saw it with Watson. But with that strategy you’re also not landing by time big name free agents. We saw that this year. So all that to say, IMO, there’s no way the Saints trade to #1 overall to get Ward. The most that they’ll trade up is 2-3 spots at most. I also think we’re at a point salary cap wise, that we cannot afford to be a great team. If we had Burrow, Chase, Hendrickson and Higgins, we’d only be able to sign Burrow. We really need to apply 2025’s cap savings to 2026 and get right.

 

[dutar76]

Freeing up extra cap space to acquire a big name player is fun to think about. But i think its more likely that we're freeing up space to allow us the flexibility to go after players if the opportunity pesents itself.

We will still need to add several free agents between now and camp to fill out the roster and we'll need to pay for our draft picks. Anything left over could either be used if need arrises during the season or used towards next season's cap.

As far as trading or releasing Carr this year... I just dont see it. I think he's finally become what a lot of us thought he would be when we signed him. A bridge to our next QB. He could stay until we find our guy. Its finding our guy that seems to be the challenge.

Amd I think there's a small chance Carr can get us to the playoffs if certain things fall out right.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Just a little added info. Mickey never goes “all in” He gets to a point in negotiations then bails. He refuses to overpay, and it’s a good thing most of the time. We saw it with Watson. But with that strategy you’re also not landing by time big name free agents. We saw that this year. So all that to say, IMO, there’s no way the Saints trade to #1 overall to get Ward. The most that they’ll trade up is 2-3 spots at most. I also think we’re at a point salary cap wise, that we cannot afford to be a great team. If we had Burrow, Chase, Hendrickson and Higgins, we’d only be able to sign Burrow. We really need to apply 2025’s cap savings to 2026 and get right.

The highest I think we can move up without putting years of future at large risk is #4 based on draft capitol but that puts all the nails in the coffin of the likely hood of drafting a franchise QB next year or two. If Carr is somehow mixed into a trade, then that opens up the possibility of not just being able to move up, but also put a little capitol in our pocket for next year.

I personally don't think we're targeting Ward, but its just a suspicion. It's hard to imagine the Browns or Giants saying "Ya, we'll take Carr over Ward". Theres not any world where that makes any kind of business sense. The Titans currently only have Will Levis as QB and with a crop of good QB's coming next year, it makes more sense to invest in offensive help for Levis after a good rookie year and one bad year, and go into next years draft looking for a replacement to ensure whether Levis is their guy or not. So it doesn't make sense for them to trade for Carr, and his salary just to put him on the bench of Levis doesn't work out. Plus, its not like Carr is a QB that should be teaching younger QB's how to make good decisions.

IDK. Its all just random speculation and Moore is probably the only person with the full laid out plan in his head.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

We could, as could other teams, but I think that goes against Loomis' stated goal of getting things closer to normal. There is always a limit, and he has stayed further away from it these last two years to make up for 2022 and 2023. In terms of max potential cap space available with restructures, we sit at 31st on that list, so our limit is closer than most. It's a mix of bad teams (ex. Browns @ 28th and Jaguars @ 29th) and good teams (ex. Bills @ 30th and Eagles @ 32nd) in a similar effective capacity situation.

The Browns and Jags should probably desperately claw their way out, the Eagles and Bills should likely keep it rolling, and we likely should aim for an approach somewhere in the middle until we turn the corner and get back into the playoffs. Edit to add that Loomis appears to be in that middle zone, still seeking out solid free agents without signing top of market guys.

I think most obvious in your previous post was the significant shift. Despite people thinking that Loomis wouldn't have fired Allen, the dramatic pivot from spending suggest that he recalibrated his expectations. I see the same thing w/ Carr going into his 3rd year. There were extremely high expectations that Carr could run Paytons offense. The reality wasn't that, they adjusted...and while he was good, he also missed games. Loomis has recalibrated slightly.

He's going to give Carr the chance to have a healthy productive season, and likely expects it just like he did of Allen last year. If it's good he'll move on end of the year, but perhaps we can trade him vs cut. Ironically I'm sure if it's subpar people will be clamoring for Carr to be benched mid-season. I wonder if the scenario ends up the same as it did for Allen.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Freeing up extra cap space to acquire a big name player is fun to think about. But i think its more likely that we're freeing up space to allow us the flexibility to go after players if the opportunity pesents itself.

We will still need to add several free agents between now and camp to fill out the roster and we'll need to pay for our draft picks. Anything left over could either be used if need arrises during the season or used towards next season's cap.

As far as trading or releasing Carr this year... I just dont see it. I think he's finally become what a lot of us thought he would be when we signed him. A bridge to our next QB. He could stay until we find our guy. Its finding our guy that seems to be the challenge.

Amd I think there's a small chance Carr can get us to the playoffs if certain things fall out right.

The problem is Carr isn't acting like he wants to be here. In fact, I think one could put up a solid argument that his actions are stating he doesn't want to be here or plans to play somewhere else in 2025. Even bridge QB's tend to act like leaders and try to succeed for their following season potential destinations. Look at the spot Aaron Rodgers is in. No one wants him. He didn't act like a leader, he didn't put in the work for massive success. He just kind of seemed to go out last season and wing it, week in and week out. That's the vibe Carr is currently putting out. Rodgers was quite a bit more extreme, getting his HC fired. But still. If he started playing well and was successful after the HC was gone, he'd likely have suitors. But he doesn't.

 

[Boy_of_wonder75]

The problem is Carr isn't acting like he wants to be here. In fact, I think one could put up a solid argument that his actions are stating he doesn't want to be here or plans to play somewhere else in 2025. Even bridge QB's tend to act like leaders and try to succeed for their following season potential destinations. Look at the spot Aaron Rodgers is in. No one wants him. He didn't act like a leader, he didn't put in the work for massive success. He just kind of seemed to go out last season and wing it, week in and week out. That's the vibe Carr is currently putting out. Rodgers was quite a bit more extreme, getting his HC fired. But still. If he started playing well and was successful after the HC was gone, he'd likely have suitors. But he doesn't.

What, specifically, has he done to indicate he doesn't want to be here? What has he said that you can quote? As far as the rest of this accusatory nonsense, the idea that he was just "winging it" is beyond silly.

 

[St. Geezy]

The problem is Carr isn't acting like he wants to be here. In fact, I think one could put up a solid argument that his actions are stating he doesn't want to be here or plans to play somewhere else in 2025.

What “actions?” Chilling at home with his family during his downtime before things ramp up again, like just about everyone else is doing this time of year?

Why do you feel you have a right to know every player’s waking thoughts at all times? Because he’s not being a clown on social media it has to mean something deeper?

The guy will report to work when he has to, and have media availability then.

The guy has a right to a private life, especially when it comes to this fanbase, who will rip and dissect anything he says or does towards the negative no matter what he does anyway.

 

[Rexman100]

The highest I think we can move up without putting years of future at large risk is #4 based on draft capitol but that puts all the nails in the coffin of the likely hood of drafting a franchise QB next year or two. If Carr is somehow mixed into a trade, then that opens up the possibility of not just being able to move up, but also put a little capitol in our pocket for next year.

I personally don't think we're targeting Ward, but its just a suspicion. It's hard to imagine the Browns or Giants saying "Ya, we'll take Carr over Ward". Theres not any world where that makes any kind of business sense. The Titans currently only have Will Levis as QB and with a crop of good QB's coming next year, it makes more sense to invest in offensive help for Levis after a good rookie year and one bad year, and go into next years draft looking for a replacement to ensure whether Levis is their guy or not. So it doesn't make sense for them to trade for Carr, and his salary just to put him on the bench of Levis doesn't work out. Plus, its not like Carr is a QB that should be teaching younger QB's how to make good decisions.

IDK. It’s all just random speculation and Moore is probably the only person with the full laid out plan in his head.

I think there’s more evidence to support that DC4 is just being ultra quiet than if there’s a trade in the works. Right now I’m just hoping that ML Ireland and company, allow CKM and company to settle in long enough to deep dive and come up with their own detailed plans. Whatever that plan turns out to be, I want CKM to stand behind it and not be swayed away from his/his coaches’ vision. So if they did decide to go and get Ward, we’d pretty much know that was a Km move and not a ML. (This because we already know that ML believes that he can run it back with lesser talent and DC4)

 

[Saint KayBee]

My theory on 2022 and 2023 is that Mickey truly believed that Allen was capable of being a bridge from Payton and maintaining status quo.

So did the majority of the fan base.

Agree - it’s just a series of things that didn’t work

They tried to continue the Payton-Carmichael-Brees mind meld with the most essential parts of that system missing. Payton’s feel for the game and Brees’ ability to execute were left in less-capable hands. Doesn’t make Dalton, Winston, or Carr bad guys or football players, but that was a flaw of continuity that we all had to bear out to know. Pete Carmichael spent 20 years with the best quarterback of all time on his sideline, and it’s not unreasonable to think his input in the system was made for that one guy.

DA wound up over his skis, full-team management wasn’t his thing and realizing he had to split off too much time to get the offense where it needed to be wound up hurting both the offense and his specialty of defense. Reading about stretching being optional remains an all-time head-scratcher especially as the injuries began mounting last season.

I’ll fondly, if dubiously so, remember their tenure by the 11 consecutive games DA’s defense held teams to under 20 points, just for PC’s offense to somehow not do enough for that to have yielded nine or ten wins. That’s the ultimate “it wasn’t going to work” indicator for me. I believed it perhaps could, because I trusted the veteran players to care enough and be bought in, but it didn’t work. Let’s see how this coaching staff wins them back over and gets winning football back on the field.

 

[Hedon James]

Just a little added info. Mickey never goes “all in” He gets to a point in negotiations then bails. He refuses to overpay, and it’s a good thing most of the time. We saw it with Watson. But with that strategy you’re also not landing by time big name free agents. We saw that this year. So all that to say, IMO, there’s no way the Saints trade to #1 overall to get Ward. The most that they’ll trade up is 2-3 spots at most. I also think we’re at a point salary cap wise, that we cannot afford to be a great team. If we had Burrow, Chase, Hendrickson and Higgins, we’d only be able to sign Burrow. We really need to apply 2025’s cap savings to 2026 and get right.

The OP is correct in that the Saints org doesn't typically restructure to create cap space unless/until it is necessary to facilitate another contemplated move. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Saints org had created that space to accommodate a targeted player. But it obviously hasn't happened (yet?) for whatever reason. Perhaps a swing and a miss? I'm fine with that....we had the opportunity. We weren't so handcuffed that we couldn't even try. I can support the sincere effort.

But usually when the Saints swing & miss on a player, they quickly pivot to their 2nd choice. That seemingly hasn't happened here. I've been wondering if the Saints aren't trying to create as much unused cap as they can, with intention of rolling it forward into 2026 to accommodate the DC4 contract situation? Either DC4 gets tweaked and his performance lives up to his contract in 2025, or he's gone in 2026. Both propositions will be expensive options. An extra say....$15-$20M rolled into next year's cap would alleviate a lot of pain no matter which option is pursued.

I'm not saying the Saints ARE or are NOT doing that, but it would connect the dots in a coherent fashion if they were. I think Rex is right. This would be a very interesting (and prudent!) strategy to pursue, IMO, if that is what is being done. JMO...