Saints could get to $14.61 million under the cap without restructuring Derek Carr, after Saints salary cap potentially increases by $5M (18 Viewers)

[oysters]

-2025 Roster Bonus: $10M (fully guarantees 3/15/2024, paid the 5th league day of 2025 injury guaranteed at signing)
-$30M 2025 salary fully guarantees the 3rd league day of 2025 (injury guaranteed at signing)

This probably why Carr is getting cut. It financially makes too much sense to try and save $40 million.

Restructuring Carr doesn't make any sense long term when it seems clear that's he's not Moore's guy.

People really got to get over trying to borrow from 2026 and 2027 to compete for a sub .500 team that won't be good.

This may be listed somewhere but if we restructure Carr to allow us to NOT restructure Cam, Mathieu, etc, what is the ramifications for 2026? I'm all about keeping Carr for 2025 and then cutting him for 2026 but I don't know what that means for the cap next year. Why restructure taysom, cam, davis, mathieu when the return on investment isn't there. Cam and Mathieu i wouldn't be shocked if they retire next year. Taysom may never be the same. Davis can't keep playing forever and he's showing decline. Restructure Carr this year which will allow us to cut the older dudes.

 

[Elvis]

relevant note for all. Creating additional cap space this year and not using it can still transfer to the following year. Pushing cap back in future year does not necessarily mean you are using that additional cap space this year. Allows flexibility.

Which is why a June 1 cut for Carr isn't a bad idea if we weren't going to be players in free agency anyway. If we get his $30m in June and only use $10-$15m of it, the rest will carry over to the following year and help eat the rest of his dead money cap hit.

 

[Rexman100]

I have a few thoughts here:

Moore will have his own vision for not just quarterback but this roster in general. Loomis even said in his last presser that our new coach would make the decision at QB. They aren't going to support him in cutting ties, knowing that the likelihood of a very bad season is high, only to can him. They're going to give him time to rebuild this thing.

Regarding fans and what sells, I think its obvious that Carrs personality does not vibe with this city and this teams fans whatsoever. I think most will be happy to be rebuilding to something sustainable, and what likely will be a top 3 pick in the draft if it is indeed as bad as you think it will be, as opposed to a likely average season that we would get with Carr.

Last, it'll be Arch Mannings first year of draft eligibility. If simultaneously Arch is balling out at Texas and the Saints are tracking toward pick 1, there will be serious fan hype even with losses. You know who would be good for business? Arch Manning. That's obviously a pipe dream, I'm using him as an extreme example, but even if it's another QB creating waves in CFB, fans will be paying attention and excited about that if we are in fact losing. What's bad for business is a losing season like we faced last few seasons (weak division, but a roster good enough to win it but can't get out of our own way); a losing season when it's evident that we are rebuilding isn't what you're painting it to be, IMO.

So you’re saying that fans will understand that we’re rebuilding and be patient, because, at least, they got rid of DC4. Fans are fickle. Do you think the fans would vibe with dc4 week 10 of last year, if our record was 8-1 at that point? So what it’s really about is, “just win now”. And that’s what I think KM will do. But he won’t restructure and extend DC4.

Arch Manning, I’m getting the feeling that he won’t want to come here, and would stay in college if we had the number 1 overall pick. I think Garrett Nussmeier is the most likely scenerio. As I wrote before, I think there’s a plan in place to acquire him if a few things line up.

 

[Rexman100]

Which is why a June 1 cut for Carr isn't a bad idea if we weren't going to be players in free agency anyway. If we get his $30m in June and only use $10-$15m of it, the rest will carry over to the following year and help eat the rest of his dead money cap hit.

The real question is, does KM see in Rattler what the staff and fans do? I wish someone would ask him his opinion.

 

[MikeyF]

The real question is, does KM see in Rattler what the staff and fans do? I wish someone would ask him his opinion.

He would just give you coach-speak...
Just like he did with Carr.

All new coaches at any level with any sport want an open competition for any position when they take over.

 

[St. Geezy]

So you’re saying that fans will understand that we’re rebuilding and be patient, because, at least, they got rid of DC4. Fans are fickle. Do you think the fans would vibe with dc4 week 10 of last year, if our record was 8-1 at that point? So what it’s really about is, “just win now”. And that’s what I think KM will do. But he won’t restructure and extend DC4.

Arch Manning, I’m getting the feeling that he won’t want to come here, and would stay in college if we had the number 1 overall pick. I think Garrett Nussmeier is the most likely scenerio. As I wrote before, I think there’s a plan in place to acquire him if a few things line up.

Agree that fans are fickle, and some (not necessarily anyone here) just want to see chaos and changes for the sake of chaos and changes without fully understanding the ramifications or with a specific end goal in mind.

As for Nuss, I’d be shocked if 2026 NFL Draft strategy is at the front of anyone’s minds on Airline Dr. at this stage.

 

[Nolan]

So you’re saying that fans will understand that we’re rebuilding and be patient, because, at least, they got rid of DC4. Fans are fickle. Do you think the fans would vibe with dc4 week 10 of last year, if our record was 8-1 at that point? So what it’s really about is, “just win now”. And that’s what I think KM will do. But he won’t restructure and extend DC4.

Arch Manning, I’m getting the feeling that he won’t want to come here, and would stay in college if we had the number 1 overall pick. I think Garrett Nussmeier is the most likely scenerio. As I wrote before, I think there’s a plan in place to acquire him if a few things line up.

Wow, that's quite the LSU fan dream scenario you've got lined up there. I think the idea of there being a plan in place to acquire Garrett is pretty far fetched as well.

And yes, fans will be patient because they're tired of what we've seen for the past 3 years. The fans know what they get with Carr. If he was leading us to success and had an off-putting personality, that'd be one thing. But that hasn't been the case. Regardless of what Kellen Moore said in his press conference about wanting to win now, I truly believe he's going to make the best moves for long term success.

 

[Taker597]

This may be listed somewhere but if we restructure Carr to allow us to NOT restructure Cam, Mathieu, etc, what is the ramifications for 2026? I'm all about keeping Carr for 2025 and then cutting him for 2026 but I don't know what that means for the cap next year. Why restructure taysom, cam, davis, mathieu when the return on investment isn't there. Cam and Mathieu i wouldn't be shocked if they retire next year. Taysom may never be the same. Davis can't keep playing forever and he's showing decline. Restructure Carr this year which will allow us to cut the older dudes.

You keep and restructure Carr with that additional $40 million in money.. You're doing nothing but making the same or bigger dead cap cap for 2026 and 2027.

Got to remember that Carr has void yrs on his deal too.

 

[St. Geezy]

The real question is, does KM see in Rattler what the staff and fans do? I wish someone would ask him his opinion.

The problem there is he needs to see him in his own offense before making a judgment. If you ask him about Rattler, you’ll just get a canned “I look forward to going through the process” type answer from him.

We all need to keep in mind that we are talking about a 5th round pick here that didn’t do anything spectacular or remarkable. He looked “fairly competent” at moments, but I think we have to view him from more tempered lenses.

 

[Elvis]

The real question is, does KM see in Rattler what the staff and fans do? I wish someone would ask him his opinion.

I wish someone would have asked him that as well, but he wasn't answering those kinds of questions in his one media availability so far. I do know that it's been reported around the league that other teams have liked what Rattler has put on tape despite the late game failed heroics and the losses he was part of last year.

 

[Covington Saint]

The real question is, does KM see in Rattler what the staff and fans do? I wish someone would ask him his opinion.

the guy just learned where the cafeteria is. geez. in due time, his actions will answer questions. but no matter what, there is no rush to make a judgement on Rattler. He has time to see and determine with Rattler.

 

[St. Widge]

It’s tanking in the sense of it is restricting your ability to obtain significant enough cap space to add talent to the team, a key piece or two…

When I say tanking there I mean “tanking the off-season,” not maximizing your available assets. Not tanking as in “Trying to go 3-14.”

And for the record, I think Carr is a much better QB than Rattler and believe people are just enamored with the newness of him. He’s worth seeing if he can develop but isn’t someone to bank on…JMO.

But you already said that free agency isn't the way to add talent to the team, which I agree with, so what would be the point in creating cap space this year anyway?

And, again, we haven't "maximized our available assets" for a few years now and aren't likely to do it again until we have a franchise QB.

Finally, Carr is better than Rattler, but Rattler will likely greatly improve with an offseason where as Carr is likely to stay the same or regress. And, frankly, the offense last year after all the other injuries didn't really look much better, if better at all, with Carr starting. Just look at the Giants game. The offense looked a lot like it did when Rattler took over due to the Carr injury. And it might not even be Rattler. Maybe they take a shot at Fields or Daniel Jones. Or maybe they draft a young QB that Moore likes.

 

[livefromDC]

I think “5-12” with one of the most injured rosters of all-time coached by one of the worst coaches of all-time has jaded fans and their outlooks.

I think throwing away or year or not going all out for a year at this stage is “Easy to say as a fan” talk. The people in that building just aren’t built that way, both from a competitive standpoint and from a business standpoint.

I think last year’s roster, even with the incompetent coaching, is a couple of fortunate ball bounces from being a 10-7 type division winner.

Add a good coaching staff headed by a SB winner, along with a handful of key free agent tweaks and a strong draft, and skies the limit.

Sure, will we be competing for a 15-2 year with homefield advantage? Probably not, but not being within reach of that specific threshold barring luck isn’t a damning thing that means it’s not worth going for the division win and a berth into the playoff dance. Virtually every team is always a bit of luck and health from a 10-7/11-6 threshold, and it’s worth going for.

There’s also the early culture-building aspect to consider.

Lastly, if Rattler is the guy, it’ll be shown in the off-season. A baller at that position reveals himself. You don’t have to rid yourself of Carr for that to happen. If Carr somehow prevents that, then that tells me Rattler wasn’t the guy to begin with.

Once you start a losing mentality, it's really hard to stop. Losing means being really bad, not injury bad or bad coach bad, but really bad. I'd be more afraid of rooting for a team that commits to being bad than one committed to using the salary cap to it's fullest potential.

 

[Rexman100]

If you think the 5-12 was just because if injury, then just taking Carr off the roster does not mean you are tanking. Frankly, if the roster really is around a .500 roster, and I think it is, we probably have just as good of a shot of making the playoff with Rattler or a young vet like Jones or Field, as we do with Carr. So I don't understand why you seem to think cutting or trading Carr would be trying to tank. It may end up in a losing season if guys can't stay healthy, but that's going to happen regardless of if Carr is the QB or not. And, as I have said before, Loomis has for the last few years spent very little on free agents outside of Carr. Whatever the final number goal is, it's clear that Loomis wants to get the cap better under control so he isn't likely to spend big this year anyway. And, as you suggest, the cap is really for signing your own good players that you drafted so, why would it matter if we don't have cap space to sign free agents this year?

The advantage of parting with Carr now is that you start the search for your franchise QB in year one for Moore and you create more cap space to sign the few good young players we have to extensions next year, while also having a bit of money to bring in some mid-priced guys to help build the roster the way Moore wants it. We can't do any of that this year without kicking the can on Carr's contract and/or other contracts and for the last few years Loomis has been unwilling to do that more than is necessary to get cap compliant. Gone for now are the days of creating as much cap space as possible by kicking the can. And, I expect they won't be back until we find a franchise QB.

We might as well start that process of finding a franchise QB in year one for the new HC. To do otherwise would not be fair to him because coaches succeed or get fired on their ability to find their QB. No point in not letting Moore get that process started this year rather than in year 2 when he would be another year closer to being fired because he hasn't found his QB.

My reasoning to move on from Carr this year is, 1) he’s not durable anymore. He missed 11 games in his two seasons and we went 1-10. Because of this, we’re not even a lock to win the South. The odds are, we’ll lose the South and he’ll miss games. We can lose the south with any Qb. 2) the time would be now to trade him, as far as value is concerned. He still is perceived as a good starting QB and he’s injury free. (If we traded him to Pitt for a draft pick). The pick would correspond with how much the trade partner would front for his contract. (The better the pick the less money the trade partner fronts).

 

[St. Geezy]

But you already said that free agency isn't the way to add talent to the team, which I agree with, so what would be the point in creating cap space this year anyway?

And, again, we haven't "maximized our available assets" for a few years now and aren't likely to do it again until we have a franchise QB.

Finally, Carr is better than Rattler, but Rattler will likely greatly improve with an offseason where as Carr is likely to stay the same or regress. And, frankly, the offense last year after all the other injuries didn't really look much better, if better at all, with Carr starting. Just look at the Giants game. The offense looked a lot like it did when Rattler took over due to the Carr injury. And it might not even be Rattler. Maybe they take a shot at Fields or Daniel Jones. Or maybe they draft a young QB that Moore likes.

I am talking about adding a key piece or two and replacing some role players, not to go on some wild $100 million spending spree.

A Mekhi Becton, a good big WR and/or tight end, a run stuffer, re-sign a Chase Young, an adequate safety is what I am talking about. Not signing a bunch of top rated free agents and then overspending on other guys just to meet minimum spend thresholds.

I don’t think it’s accurate to say we haven’t maximized. We literally just signed the league’s highest paid free agent two seasons ago (for better or for worse) at a time we had no money.