Saints could get to $14.61 million under the cap without restructuring Derek Carr, after Saints salary cap potentially increases by $5M (18 Viewers)

[texasjefe]

the guy just learned where the cafeteria is. geez.

Mike McCarthy had a copy of the construction renderings.

On cap, I'm with Elvis, Taker, and Greatshow.

I'm very happy with Kellen Moore's personality and experience. I do think that Moore would be wise to move on from Carr now and not spend a year in the Dennis Allen quicksand pit of rancidness.

Retreads, overpaid old guys, mis-evaluated draft picks, over-injured guys... seeya. New Baby Saints, let's go.

 

[St. Widge]

This is your opinion as a jaded fan and it just isn’t the way the club is going to think IMO.

But it is the way the club has been acting for the the last 3 years. They have spent little in free agency outside of Carr and they have not created all the cap space they could have using restructures and void years. They did a little bit of it with Chase Young because they essentially had zero edge rushers, but that's about it.

Otherwise they have done the minimum necessary to be cap compliant, sign their draft picks, and sign some low prices FAs that they think could be bargains. I mean, they traded their best CB when the other starter was injured. That's not the action of a team that is all in on winning now.

 

[St. Widge]

I am talking about adding a key piece or two and replacing some role players, not to go on some wild $100 million spending spree.

A Mekhi Becton, a good big WR and/or tight end, a run stuffer, re-sign a Chase Young, an adequate safety is what I am talking about. Not signing a bunch of top rated free agents and then overspending on other guys just to meet minimum spend thresholds.

I don’t think it’s accurate to say we haven’t maximized. We literally just signed the league’s highest paid free agent two seasons ago (for better or for worse) at a time we had no money.

And that can be done while also cutting Carr. Especially if the cap is $5 million or $10 million more than expected.

And you know that they didn't restructure some deals last year that they could have so they didn't maximize all the cap space they could have. And again, Loomis said that they want to get closer to cap compliance.

If you disagree because you think Carr is so good that we can make the playoffs with him and can't without him, I get it. I disagree, but I get it. There are disadvantages to parting ways with Carr this year, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some advantages to parting with Carr this year. I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages but you obviously disagree.

 

[St. Geezy]

But it is the way the club has been acting for the the last 3 years. They have spent little in free agency outside of Carr and they have not created all the cap space they could have using restructures and void years. They did a little bit of it with Chase Young because they essentially had zero edge rushers, but that's about it.

Otherwise they have done the minimum necessary to be cap compliant, sign their draft picks, and sign some low prices FAs that they think could be bargains. I mean, they traded their best CB when the other starter was injured. That's not the action of a team that is all in on winning now.

The team has never really gone nuts in free agency and I am not asking them to go nuts now.

We ran it back with a nucleus we believed in and failed in 2022 (while adding guys like Mathieu and Williams among others), then added the league’s highest paid free agent in 2023 (something that shouldn’t just be glossed over), which didn’t work, then last offseason indicated we are now going to dial it back some while even with that declaration, spending money on a few guys that didn’t work out like Wilson, Gay, and Young.

 

[Rexman100]

The problem there is he needs to see him in his own offense before making a judgment. If you ask him about Rattler, you’ll just get a canned “I look forward to going through the process” type answer from him.

We all need to keep in mind that we are talking about a 5th round pick here that didn’t do anything spectacular or remarkable. He looked “fairly competent” at moments, but I think we have to view him from more tempered lenses.

I hear you and agree somewhat, but a lot of people see strong traits in him. Since when as a saints fan, would we ever talk about a fifth round pick in the offseason like we do about Rattler. There must be something there. And after watching, again, his highlights from last year. I may have figured out the missing piece. He has the ability to laser a ball anywhere on the field while the play is breaking down, as a last resort. It’s like he can be invincible if the receivers would catch the ball. There were so many drops of these last second rocket balls. Anyway, I think it’s a little more than just black N gold glasses, with Rattler. (He also fits the ball in places, passes that are considered risky, and it’s not luck. Brady said, “as a rookie it’s best that he doesn’t know”. Referencing an impossible, layered second level pass to JJ. A pass that was totally reliant on JJ making the play. It would’ve been a pick otherwise.

 

[Elvis]

Once you start a losing mentality, it's really hard to stop. Losing means being really bad, not injury bad or bad coach bad, but really bad. I'd be more afraid of rooting for a team that commits to being bad than one committed to using the salary cap to it's fullest potential.

I think that it's being falsely framed as the team trying to lose. It should be seen as turning over the roster to suit the new coach and to give him the flexibility to make those changes as he sees fit without having to look at the cap ramifications of every move. And of course the players and coaches on the team in 2025 will work and play hard to win games. The question is if we're going for short term small successes of winning the worst division in football or long term chance at being a perennial contender. The former shouldn't be that hard, but the latter takes more moves than we have in year one of CKM and kicking those moves to future years wastes time that coaches in the NFL rarely get.

Many complain that Payton screwed up the cap and made bad draft picks that set up DA to fail. So why would we once again want to force this roster on a new coach? I genuinely don't see very many players from 2024 even being on the 2027 team. It's going to be mostly turned over the next two seasons because that's what new coaches often do. Especially with a roster as old as ours is.

 

[St. Geezy]

And that can be done while also cutting Carr. Especially if the cap is $5 million or $10 million more than expected.

And you know that they didn't restructure some deals last year that they could have so they didn't maximize all the cap space they could have. And again, Loomis said that they want to get closer to cap compliance.

He didn’t say exactly what his end goal was. I have taken the tea leaves to mean they just want to get back to a certain mean level to where things are manageable. They got reckless with the Carr deal and had to dial it back a bit. I don’t think getting back to a traditional cap management format is necessarily the goal.

You have to have a 4+ year outlook with the cap and they saw a situation coming that needed to be amended a bit…at least that’s what I got out of it.

 

[St. Widge]

The real question is, does KM see in Rattler what the staff and fans do? I wish someone would ask him his opinion.

Moore would say he's a good young player with a lot of tools and he is excited to get this process started with him.

 

[St. Widge]

He didn’t say exactly what his end goal was. I have taken the tea leaves to mean they just want to get back to a certain mean level to where things are manageable. They got reckless with the Carr deal and had to dial it back a bit. I don’t think getting back to a traditional cap management format is necessarily the goal.

You have to have a 4+ year outlook with the cap and they saw a situation coming that needed to be amended a bit…at least that’s what I got out of it.

He didn't say what his end goal was and I don't think he plans to move to a completely conventional management of the cap, but his actions have shown that he isn't where he wants to be yet. You don't trade Lattimore if you are happy with your cap position and are all in on winning now. Maybe they have completely changed that plan since last offseason, but I highly doubt it.

 

[texasjefe]

I wish someone would have asked him that as well, but he wasn't answering those kinds of questions in his one media availability so far. I do know that it's been reported around the league that other teams have liked what Rattler has put on tape despite the late game failed heroics and the losses he was part of last year.

Does Spencer Rattler present as a QB that can be developed by Moore and his staff? I say yes. He has enough pedigree, accuracy, and mobility to be developed. He showed his upside in some halves of football under tough circumstances last year. Do you think you know his ceiling? I don't yet. Give him the game reps.

If he does not show dev, then draft a new QB next year to compete.

The last vets to win the Super Bowl the past 10 years were Stafford, Brady, Manning. Those dudes have more talent in their stool than DC4.

Carr's all bent and might not waive his NTC. He is not a culture fit. Gayle, do that thing you did with Dennis.

And what if Carr has a career year with the Saints next year and they win 9 games? You gonna pay him $50M for 2026 when the comments in this thread demonstrated, for all the momentary 'cap got raised, ignore the dead money' euphoria, that the 26' cap will have a ton of dead money. And '27 is unknown.

Take the cap raised money and pay a monster dead cap in 2025'. It's the only way to get back to fiscal sanity quicker.

 

[St. Geezy]

He didn't say what his end goal was and I don't think he plans to a completely conventional management of the cap, but his actions have shown that he isn't where he wants to be yet. You don't trade Lattimore if you are happy with your cap position and are all in on winning now. Maybe they have completely changed that plan since last offseason, but I highly doubt it.

Lattimore, to me, is a discussion about player health, availability, and happiness, along with an ability for us to get somewhat good compensation for him right before the wheels fall off more so than an indictment on team direction.

Lattimore wasn’t offering us much value anymore.

 

[meily]

Mike McCarthy had a copy of the construction renderings.

On cap, I'm with Elvis, Taker, and Greatshow.

I'm very happy with Kellen Moore's personality and experience. I do think that Moore would be wise to move on from Carr now and not spend a year in the Dennis Allen quicksand pit of rancidness.

Retreads, overpaid old guys, mis-evaluated draft picks, over-injured guys... seeya. New Baby Saints, let's go.

The increased cap can help ease the blow of moving away from Carr and other vets that no longer fit the direction of the team going forward.

 

[texasjefe]

The Belichik Patriots would have moved on from Latt 2 years ago. They paid Brady, they chopped off some other vets, even still productive. QB rules!

Kellen seems to be a player's coach and not the hardass Belichik was. But on the Patriots, you played like your roster spot was never safe, because it wasn't. Produce or leave. With Loomis, it's been a country club for senior adults. Leave when you die, we don't care the cost.

 

[oysters]

You keep and restructure Carr with that additional $40 million in money.. You're doing nothing but making the same or bigger dead cap cap for 2026 and 2027.

Got to remember that Carr has void yrs on his deal too.

So can a team restructure a partial amount? Restructure some to get us cap compliant, then cut him and take the hit June 1?

 

[texasjefe]

The increased cap can help ease the blow of moving away from Carr and other vets that no longer fit the image of the team going forward.

That's right. Move on from Carr now because Kellen keeping Carr for another season will be hard for Moore to keep fans happy about when Carr Carrs.

Turn the freakin' page.