Saints D-Line is terrible (19 Viewers)

[B4YOU]

Every time I focus in on Chase Young, all he does is run up to the offensive tackle and pitty pats with his hands. He occasionally takes to the outside rush but just runs past the quarterback. He's terrible.

He was bad in Wash which is why they traded him. He is undisciplined and inconsistent in effort. He wants to speed rush the outside but gets too deep and gives up gap control. Allen smartly played him as a 1 inside gap DE early. The problem is hand fighting OTs and stunts takes more effort and technique than just bending the corner which he wasn’t even that good at.

 

[RaisingTheBar]

It’s been bad for 3 years. And this is going to rub a lot of fans the wrong way, but Cam and Demario have severely fallen off. Father Time yields to no one. We really need them to retire after this season and not force us to cut them.

 

[fishing4food]

It’s been bad for 3 years. And this is going to rub a lot of fans the wrong way, but Cam and Demario have severely fallen off. Father Time yields to no one. We really need them to retire after this season and not force us to cut them.

I thought Cam should have retired last year. His contract at the moment is brutal on cap space and dead money. I would also hope Demario puts his jersey away at the end of the season and goes out with dignity and pride. Love both of them but your're correct, father time has caught up with them.

 

[Saint Spud]

The D as a whole has been brutal. And they don’t have the same level of grace bc of injury.

The drafting has been miserable over the last few years. Way too many misses to sustain a solid roster over a long season.

Whether it’s Loomis or Ireland or DA or a combination, player acquisition has been a much bigger problem than even coaching.

 

[SaintsMan209]

If we see this, Dennis Allen sees it and he will get it fixed. I don’t think he’s the kind of guy that doesn’t understand what happens when you have a small offensive linemen. The only thing I can think of is the linebacker injuries have been worse than previously thought.

 

[cygnus_ltb]

lattimore is from 2017. Breese is not playing well and should probly move to the outside. To crappy against the run-Just like hi draft profile said. Foske too stiff just like hid draft profile. Saints always think they are the smartest guy in the room. Even their hits-fell for a reason. Lattimore -history of recurrent Hammys. Ram- degenerating knee-they would have won this pick if they knew how to admit he SHOULD NEVER have gotten a second contract . I dont know how many millions they lost on that bone headed decision. Thats why we are 80 mil over the cap next year

Agreed. Many times they got too cute for their own good. Like trading back up to get Ingram. I liked Ingram as a player, but they move back into the first to get him and then split his carries a lot with other backs...and several times he had 5-10 or so rushes in a game. Davenport, Turner etc. goes without saying further. A previous poster said it perfectly, sacrificed young, emerging talent to resign aging, expensive veterans. I guess they thought they were creating a culture of loyalty where players or free agents would want to play, but man they sure cast aside a few guys that had they been on the team, they probably compete for another SB during Drew's tenure.

 

[RaisingTheBar]

I thought Cam should have retired last year. His contract at the moment is brutal on cap space and dead money. I would also hope Demario puts his jersey away at the end of the season and goes out with dignity and pride. Love both of them but your're correct, father time has caught up with them.

Nothing but love here for the both of them. But it’s time for them, and the team, to move on.

 

[FlySaint]

Bresee has been the biggest disappointment to me this year. Complete liability in the run game and just not sufficiently effective in pass rush. A huge decline over last year. Troubling for the future for sure.

 

[HouseCall]

If we see this, Dennis Allen sees it and he will get it fixed. I don’t think he’s the kind of guy that doesn’t understand what happens when you have a small offensive linemen. The only thing I can think of is the linebacker injuries have been worse than previously thought.

I agree that Allen isn’t going to - or hasn’t thus far - turned a blind eye to the horrid performance of our d-line in both run defense and generating pressure.

Unfortunately, there’s only so much scheme you can throw at a problem before you have to address the lack of talent. Unfortunately there isn’t much Allen or Loomis can do before next season with that.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

It’s been bad for 3 years. And this is going to rub a lot of fans the wrong way, but Cam and Demario have severely fallen off. Father Time yields to no one. We really need them to retire after this season and not force us to cut them.

Cam Yes....Demario I think can still play, the problem is he's having to deal w/ too many large bodies. I always use Ray Lewis as a reference point because I listened to a documentary. At the time they were concerned about how much mileage was being added to Lewis when he had to take on OL. So they started drafting bigger bodies to put in front of him. They added Haloti Ngata to replace Siragusa and eventually added Terrance Mt Cody and others, all to keep Ray as clean as possible.

We aren't keeping Davis very clean and his game is suffering becuae of it.

Id even argue that the biggest thing hurting Cam this year is he has no power at his lighter weight. My girlfriend continues to comment how small he is (and she's met him several times in person) and that she's never seen him at that size. He doesn't have the same strength and power he's known for, on top of being lighter but not more explosive.

I'll keep saying it until I'm either proven wrong or right....this new philosophy that came in w/ Grantham does not mesh w/ how DA wants to play ball, on top of the original assessment of the OP, the DL isn't that good.

 

[BreesusSaves]

I agree that Allen isn’t going to - or hasn’t thus far - turned a blind eye to the horrid performance of our d-line in both run defense and generating pressure.

Unfortunately, there’s only so much scheme you can throw at a problem before you have to address the lack of talent. Unfortunately there isn’t much Allen or Loomis can do before next season with that.

Not even a scheme thing. These guys can't execute the fundamentals of disengaging blocks and making sound tackles. Scheme doesn't matter when they can't even put themselves in a situation for scheme to matter.

 

[solarbear88]

The D as a whole has been brutal. And they don’t have the same level of grace bc of injury.

The drafting has been miserable over the last few years. Way too many misses to sustain a solid roster over a long season.

Whether it’s Loomis or Ireland or DA or a combination, player acquisition has been a much bigger problem than even coaching.

And Cam's contract keeps us from signing any veteran players. When we do it's usually some cast off.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

IMHO Bresee should be a DE in somewhat of a JJ Watt Role, meanwhile Granderson is doing that despite taking more snaps at LDE, while accommodating Young at RDE.

Part of me wants to think Grantham doesn’t have the guys to do what he wants, but he’s the one who brought in this philosophy a year ago, that had us asking guys to lose weight on the DL.

He’s not developing the DL talent in a way that Nielsen did.

We don’t stack and shed anyone. Not at DL or at LB but especially at DL. I feel bad for our LBs in how often we ask them to take on a G or C 1 on 1 in the running game.

Which is fine if you’re going to be a penetrating line, but the DL isn’t disruptive in the least bit on run downs. They get stood up and attached to single blocks, while another opposing OL freely climbs and puts his 300lb body all over my 235 lb Linebacker.

It’s cray cray

Bresee doesn't have the length nor explosiveness to play on the end.

He has sub 33 inch arms which is already on the smaller end for an iDL but that's just wayyyyyy to small to play on the end.

He will need to succeed on the inside.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Not even a scheme thing. These guys can't execute the fundamentals of disengaging blocks and making sound tackles. Scheme doesn't matter when they can't even put themselves in a situation for scheme to matter.

I beg to differ, it's scheme, and some of what we're asking them to do. Case in point

-I've noticed Granderson in coverage a lot this year. I hadn't checked the stats on # of times, but it's just be interesting to see it. In my mind I said, his job discription is that of a Sam LB in an under front. 25/35% coverage and then the rest run defense and passrushing. To my surprise, that's exactly what PFF has him listed as, a LOLB.

-So then you look at the total # of coverage drops and his total is 18 in seven games. You know how I've been saying he's being used differently this year to get Young on the field at RDE? The #'s back it up. In 2023 he dropped in coverage 20 times in 17 games. Let that sink in, he's already 2 drops away from last years total.

It's def the scheme, and what were asking the players to do, and arguably some of it is a lack of talent to DO exactly what were asking them to do.


Saints should move away from Young, put Granderson back at RDE and just sign a Sam LB that can do exactly what they are asking of Granderson, but truth is, Granderson should not be dropping in coverage that damn often within the scheme if he's also your best passrusher. It's not very smart. They also need a disruptor along the Dline. I don't know that Bresee is that guy yet, but he's got time for a 3rd year leap. However they need someoen on the interior who can win very quickly and they don't. A lot of those guys are winnning on stunts and not being blocked at times, but they aren't really winning 1 on 1 often.

 

[BreesusSaves]

I beg to differ, it's scheme, and some of what we're asking them to do. Case in point

-I've noticed Granderson in coverage a lot this year. I hadn't checked the stats on # of times, but it's just be interesting to see it. In my mind I said, his job discription is that of a Sam LB in an under front. 25/35% coverage and then the rest run defense and passrushing. To my surprise, that's exactly what PFF has him listed as, a LOLB.

-So then you look at the total # of coverage drops and his total is 18 in seven games. You know how I've been saying he's being used differently this year to get Young on the field at RDE? The #'s back it up. In 2023 he dropped in coverage 20 times in 17 games. Let that sink in, he's already 2 drops away from last years total.

It's def the scheme, and what were asking the players to do, and arguably some of it is a lack of talent to DO exactly what were asking them to do.


Saints should move away from Young, put Granderson back at RDE and just sign a Sam LB that can do exactly what they are asking of Granderson, but truth is, Granderson should not be dropping in coverage that damn often within the scheme if he's also your best passrusher. It's not very smart. They also need a disruptor along the Dline. I don't know that Bresee is that guy yet, but he's got time for a 3rd year leap. However they need someoen on the interior who can win very quickly and they don't. A lot of those guys are winnning on stunts and not being blocked at times, but they aren't really winning 1 on 1 often.

I agree with you that the scheme is also bad, but fundamentally they're also bad. They can't get off blocks. They can't get push. The foundation is broken which just makes the schematic issues worse.

I don't like what they're doing with the defense at all this season. Grantham gives me serious Bill Johnson vibes which I find funny since the last time Grantham had a good showing with an NFL defense was 2009. A lot has changed in the NFL since then and I feel like he hasn't evolved with the times.