Saints expected to be very interested in former Cowboys HC Mike McCarthy [ Rapoport: Interview to be early next week] (44 Viewers)

[Saint Spud]

We just fired a retread, so let's try one more time. Mick will probably go the perceived safe choice but I wouldn't be surprised. I don't trust him and this probably won't end well.

One of the retreads won a Super Bowl and is one of the winningest coaches in NFL history.

The other has one of the worst records of any HC in NFL history.

I get it. I’d probably prefer taking a swing at Ben Johnson or Brady. But I’m not sure that’s realistic and resetting the floor with a possible higher ceiling is a good direction, too.

 

[SystemShock]

Holmgren and Parcells both brought their teams to Super Bowls; that has to count for something, right?

The point is that they didn't win it, and that the odds are stacked against it. That's it.

Right now the only 2 active coaches with a chance to do it for the first time are Payton and McCarthy (I'm counting McCarthy as "active" since he'll coach in 2025 and beyond, even if he's not on contract right now). But history is not looking kind on them.

 

[cdogg]

It is relevant for a couple of reasons:
You can't discount the Cowboys' record the last 5 years, which was not 4 NFCCG's and a SB (which was 2 WC losses and 1 divisional loss) and just go back 7 years to the record with the Packers for convenience.

Then fact that no HC has won a SB with 2 different teams, is just that.

So, if the expectation is to flounder in the playoffs and don't win a SB, then fine.

And you cannot discount Dak sucks in big situations. No amount of coaching can help that. Some players just don’t have the big game gene.

 

[SystemShock]

and someone will get that win at some point.

Maybe.

Anyway, it's still irrelevant because what history says doesn't determine how he'll do with the Saints.

Of course not.

As for his time with the Cowboys, he led a Dak quarterbacked team to 3 consecutive 12 win seasons prior to last year's injury riddled season. That's pretty impressive in spite of their playoff results. The guy made the playoffs 13 out of 18 seasons with 2 different teams.

Great.

 

[St. Widge]

We just fired a retread, so let's try one more time. Mick will probably go the perceived safe choice but I wouldn't be surprised. I don't trust him and this probably won't end well.

Just because one former coach failed (one with the worst winning percentage ever) does not mean that another former coach would fail. Especially when that coach has a .608 winning percentage. I know you like to state the stat that no coach has won the Super Bowl with 2 different teams, but 7 coaches have made it to the Super Bowl with two different team so former coaches are often very successful with other teams.

If you want to argue that you would prefer a different coach than McCarty, I get it and frankly he might not be my picks, but I don't get why people feel the need to make up reasons why McCarty would be a terrible hire.

 

[SystemShock]

And you cannot discount Dak sucks in big situations. No amount of coaching can help that. Some players just don’t have the big game gene.

There are lots of things you can't discount.

It's just an observation, that no SB winning HC has gone to another team and won a SB with the 2nd team.

 

[DaveXA]

We just fired a retread, so let's try one more time. Mick will probably go the perceived safe choice but I wouldn't be surprised. I don't trust him and this probably won't end well.

A loser retread as opposed to one with 18 yeas of mostly winning records, a SB win and a proven track records. They are not the same. And to say they are is inexplicable reasoning.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Just because one former coach failed (one with the worst winning percentage ever) does not mean that another former coach would fail. Especially when that coach has a .608 winning percentage. I know you like to state the stat that no coach has won the Super Bowl with 2 different teams, but 7 coaches have made it to the Super Bowl with two different team so former coaches are often very successful with other teams.

If you want to argue that you would prefer a different coach than McCarty, I get it and frankly he might not be my picks, but I don't get why people feel the need to make up reasons why McCarty would be a terrible hire.

Because he underachieved with an extremely talented team and has shown many times that he gets out coached in big games. He and Dak are meant for each other. Big games, Dak sucks and big games McCarty gets out coached.

They win because of how talented that team is and beat bad or average teams very consistently. But when they go up against a good team, with good players, and good coaching, it's usually a disaster. From game planning to execution. It's been this way ever since Aaron Rodgers got him fired. And that's exactly the gripe Aaron Rodgers had on him, that his game planning was trash.

Even Packers officials say that his way of game planning was basically "Quitting on his team".

Why did the Packers fire Mike McCarthy? Revisiting his Green Bay playoff record, Aaron Rodgers falling out | Sporting News

Mike McCarthy had plenty of success in Green Bay, but as is always the case, things ended badly. Here's revisiting what went wrong during his Packers' tenure.

www.sportingnews.com

And you saw it in Dallas whenever they skirted to the playoffs surviving on how insanely talented that team is (I rarely watched em in regular season). Sean Payton, Kevin O'Connell, Sean McVay... hell maybe even Todd Bowls likely would've at least made a Super Bowl appearance with those rosters. Dak be damned. That's one of the most stacked rosters talent wise, and has been for a few years.

Like I've said before, the guy is dang good at spotting and acquiring talent. But the moment his game plan (which sounds like rarely changes) doesn't work, all hell breaks lose.

Hard pass.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I'm all in on McCarthy, as long as he names the right DC.

One thing about McCarthy is he's guaranteed to get you to the playoffs, the other things about is McCarthy is he comes off the Marty Schottenheimer coaching tree, and Marty himself was famous for his struggles in the playoffs.

If you look at all of last weeks playoff games, only one of the losing teams scored more than 14 points an that was the Bucs(20). The rest of the losing teams, (9, 7, 10, 14, 12) IE, defense wins playoff games. Last years Dallas team lost their playoff game not because they couldn't score points(32)...it was because they couldn't stop the packers from putting up 48.

 

[BBarnes]

Name one. I literally cannot. Everyone wants to hang onto his record but keep in mind the bulk of career was coaching Favre and Rogers, and then inherited Kellen Moore’s work with Dak. And when they lost a playoff game, he promptly and PUBLICLY blamed Kellen Moore and ran him out of town. Then went on to do worse without him.

HARD PASS on this bump on a log, stale coach who suckered Jerry Jones into believing he was the missing piece.

Yeah he got decent protection out of Aaron Brooks. That was 20+ years ago. What he was able to accomplish this season, that’s what you should expect.

So we discredit Sean’s record in New Orleans even though all he and Mike’s numbers their entire career are almost identical, because 99% of it was with Drew?

Like…what

And I’ll go further in saying I’m not guaranteeing that this is the right hire, I do know you’re a little off base with your assessment that he was the issue in Dallas or any of his numbers should be discredited, heck he did a really good job this year. But the truth is, this is going to be a mess that someone inherits and I’m not close to 100% sure on who can fix it.

 

[St. Widge]

Because he underachieved with an extremely talented team and has shown many times that he gets out coached in big games. He and Dak are meant for each other. Big games, Dak sucks and big games McCarty gets out coached.

They win because of how talented that team is and beat bad or average teams very consistently. But when they go up against a good team, with good players, and good coaching, it's a disaster. From game planning to execution. It's been this way ever since Aaron Rodgers got him fired. And that's exactly the gripe Aaron Rodgers had on him, that his game planning was trash.

Even Packers officials say that his way of game planning was basically "Quitting on his team".

Why did the Packers fire Mike McCarthy? Revisiting his Green Bay playoff record, Aaron Rodgers falling out | Sporting News

Mike McCarthy had plenty of success in Green Bay, but as is always the case, things ended badly. Here's revisiting what went wrong during his Packers' tenure.

www.sportingnews.com

And you saw it in Dallas whenever they skirted to the playoffs surviving on how insanely talented that team is (I rarely watched em in regular season). Sean Payton, Kevin O'Connell, Sean McVay... hell maybe even Todd Bowls likely would've at least made a Super Bowl appearance with those rosters. Dak be damned.

Kevin O'Connell couldn't even get out of the first round of the playoffs this year and neither could Bowles.

Sean and McVay are better coaches than McCarty, but that doesn't mean he is a bad coach and that doesn't mean there is a better coach available to be hired.

And it's complete nonsense to claim that a coach that has been to 4 NFC Championship games and won one Super Bowl always gets out coached in big games and under achieves. All coaches occasionally get out coached, but his record in the playoffs is actually slightly better than Payton, who also had a HoF QB. They also have the same number of Super Bowl wins, but McCarty has one more NFC Championship game appearance.

Did Payton horribly under achieve and get out coached in big games? Would you not want Payton as our HC?

 

[St. Geezy]

The point is that they didn't win it, and that the odds are stacked against it. That's it.

Right now the only 2 active coaches with a chance to do it for the first time are Payton and McCarthy (I'm counting McCarthy as "active" since he'll coach in 2025 and beyond, even if he's not on contract right now). But history is not looking kind on them.

The odds are stacked because of the tiny sample size and because winning SBs is difficult in general, not because there is some evil magic or deal with the devil that SB winning head coaches made preventing them from doing it again.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Kevin O'Connell couldn't even get out of the first round of the playoffs this year and neither could Bowles.

Sean and McVay are better coaches than McCarty, but that doesn't mean he is a bad coach and that doesn't mean there is a better coach available to be hired.

I wouldn't look down on Kevin O'Connell because he lost to Sean McVay. McVay is a HOF coach. O'Connell may well be on his way too. And you're right, there may not be a better head coach available. But we won't know unless we try. We know exactly what we're getting with McCarthy, a team that can make the playoffs and head to the couch after 1, maybe 2 games at most. A coach who reportedly quit on his team and has a history of players wanting him gone. A coach who has proven that he can't hang with the big boy coaches, and always gets out coached by em.

I'd rather swing for the fence and take an unknown coach, giving him a few years to build his team, learn and improve. Someone promising that has proven they can out coach opposition consistently.

 

[ThibodauxSaint]

The odds are stacked because of the tiny sample size and because winning SBs is difficult in general, not because there is some evil magic or deal with the devil that SB winning head coaches made preventing them from doing it again.

For the longest time no starting QB had won a Super Bowl with 2 different teams. Then Manning did it and Brady after that. Just because something never happened doesn't mean it never will.

 

[St. Widge]

I wouldn't look down on Kevin O'Connell because he lost to Sean McVay. McVay is a HOF coach. O'Connell may well be on his way too. And you're right, there may not be a better head coach available. But we won't know unless we try. We know exactly what we're getting with McCarthy, a team that can make the playoffs and head to the couch after 1, maybe 2 games at most. A coach who reportedly quit on his team and has a history of players wanting him gone. A coach who has proven that he can't hang with the big boy coaches, and always gets out coached by em.

I'd rather swing for the fence and take an unknown coach, giving him a few years to build his team, learn and improve. Someone promising that has proven they can out coach opposition consistently.

I don't have a problem with the idea that some would rather swing for the fences. I'd probably rather do that too, but let's not act like McCarty isn't a good coach or that he wouldn't be a good bet to win a lot of games and get this team back to the playoffs while building a better roster.