Saints met with top QB prospect Cam Ward [Schefter: CLE, NYG or maybe Saints have to make an offer compelling enough for #1 pick]

[tyler735]

who exactly are they trying to confuse? This is crunch time…they aren’t going to waste their entire staffs time unless it was for a better reason than deception and hanging out in Miami (which frankly, sucks).

Agreed I just struggle to see the logic in that. Not to mention how chaotic this weeks pro day schedule was with top schools/prospects being lumped together this week.

 

[StudioSaint]

who exactly are they trying to confuse? This is crunch time…they aren’t going to waste their entire staffs time unless it was for a better reason than deception and hanging out in Miami (which frankly, sucks).

True critical thinking involves recognizing all of the possibilities and also recognizing the differences between belief, desire and knowledge.

I've never seen so much wish casting for a player like I have seen for Ward.

If the Saints and Titans, for different purposes, convince the other 30 teams that the Saints want to jump up to draft Ward, then it could easily set off an early run on QB's. That has happened frequently in the drafts. Several teams panic when it comes to drafting QB's. If the Saints can trigger an early run on QB's, then that will push better players at other positions down to them. They might even be able to snag one of the top 5 rated players at 9.

Loomis going to Miami for a couple of days would not interfere with his work.

Miami sucks to you, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a lot of people love Miami.

 

[StudioSaint]

Which QBs do you think will be clearly better than Ward and why wouldn't the teams ahead of us either draft them or want a deal better than what it would take to get Ward this year?

Trading up from 9 to 1 costs a lot more than trading up from 18 to 10 or from 23 to 15. That's why it would cost more to get Ward this year, than to try to trade into between 10 and 15 from between 18 to 23 next year.

The Saints scouting department looks at the likely pool of players available in future drafts when mapping out their draft strategy for the current year. If they think there are several QB's next year that are in the same tier as Ward, then they could probably get one of those QB's next year for less than what it would cost to get Ward this year.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Completely agree. Let’s not kid ourselves that this is as bad as the Katrina year or Ditka days/pre-Mora days. It’s not that this is a horrible team, but that is part of the frustration. It truly feels like we’re in indefinite purgatory. Not good enough to compete but not bad enough to truly upgrade the QB position. Moore offers a small bit of optimism but this is still an aging team without much high end talent. It’s a team that needs a reset but without a clear path to even do that. Ward at least provides optimism and hope…because a good HC and franchise QB is definitely the quickest avenue to improve your team.

Completely agree. Either Ward or just nail the draft ala 2017.

I wasn’t a fan of DA as a head coach and while the team wasn’t terrible I just felt apathetic towards them for the first time in my life.

Couple that with Drew retiring and Sean leaving I was just down as far as my fandom. More so than even back in the Ditka years.

I’m excited to see how Kellen leads the teams. First excitement I’ve had towards the team in years.

 

[StudioSaint]

I don’t think it gets done…and nobody should. But Mickey Loomis isn’t traveling unless there’s a good reason. Are are less costly/easier ways to smokescreen

The subterfuge is not that the Saints are interested in Ward. The subterfuge is that the Saints are "trying like hell" to trade up for Ward.

You're absolutely convinced that Loomis being there means there's no doubt the Saints are doing everything they can to trade up for Ward. Your absolute certainty is the most effective type of subterfuge that any amount of money can buy.

The best subterfuge is the one that everyone thinks can't possibly be subterfuge.

The Saints may not be engaging in deception, but the Saints just might be engaging in deception.

 

[Saint Spud]

No it does not mean you stop trying, it means that you need to be very sure when you draft one , AND way more so if you trade a combination of multiple 1sts 2nds to get the guy

I find that most important position in team sports line to be preposterous. It's a talking heads line so they have something to say. If the offense and defense play roughly the same amount of snaps in a game that means the the QB is not even on the field for 1/2 the game. An NFL offense has a 60/40 pass to run ratio. So for 40% of half of the plays of the game the QB id doing nothing but handing the ball to a runner. How can that be the most important position in all of team sports?

So if Moore is very sure, then go get him.

Also lol at it not being the most important position in team sports. Come on.

 

[DSnfla]

Everyone keeps saying this but.... how does anyone know? Attainable how? If the Saints are picking 15-16 range (or even let's just say 9 again) and the QBs "are better next year" (which by all accounts they will be) then two things happen:

1) the cost to trade up becomes even HIGHER than this year
2) teams picking high don't trade those picks because the QB prospects are better. LV tried to trade the farm to WASH last year for JD5 and they didn't budge. Same for NYG to NE for Maye, they didn't budge.

So everyone keeps bringing up that argument and... it logically doesn't make sense. It only makes sense if you expect the Saints to be awful next season and picking top 3-5 (which they could be).

Let's say for argument's sake we are drafting 16 next yr. In the last 20 yrs The #1 pick in the draft that was a QB has made it to the SB , not even winning it a total of 9 times. And Peyton and Eli Manning counting for 6 of those. The other are Burrow , Newton and Stafford

Meaning that most of the QBs that have just played and not even won a SB have not been picked #1. In fact you'll find that more QBs that have been picked in an avg of about somewhere in the mid 1st rd. So you don't have to have the #1 pick to find your SB QB

So picking @ 16 we have just as good a chance finding our SB QB than if we were picking #1. And trading up from 16 to say 8 or so is much cheaper than trading from #9 to #1. PLUS this being a poor QB draft it make the guy/guys at the top even more expensive.

 

[WilliamBrees]

I have been on all of the team boards that need a QB or will need one. I have seen nothing about Carr. The only team he would be able to start for is the Steelers. But he's not a cold weather QB.

 

[WilliamBrees]

Loomis has to make this work or he will likely no longer be gm. There is a sense of urgency. Moore meeting with all these qbs tells you how he feels about the qb room

This is not likely true due to the Benson will.

 

[WilliamBrees]

He's not worth the draft capital required to possibly select him, we are not desperate or lack talent at the QB positions, but CB, S, LB, DE, DT, OL is a different story.

Hurts has everyone fooled.

 

[Hedon James]

Never said he didn’t. Literally said I think he threw a feeler out there but was never and is not serious about moving to one.

True. Offering additional support to your statement(s). There seem to be a few fans on here that believe Loomis inquiring about the #1 overall pick is evidence of something below the surface. Which MAY turn out to be true. But the fact is....Loomis inquires about the #1 overall pick quite often. If the #1 ain't for sale, he inquires about #2, or #3, until he gets a basis for the cost of the jump. Doesn't matter if we select #9, or #29. It seems to be part of how he sets up his value chart.

Although, one of these days, those folks thinking Loomis gonna pay to jump to #1 overall are likely to be correct.....SOME DAY!

 

[3ParStillDriver]

True. Offering additional support to your statement(s). There seem to be a few fans on here that believe Loomis inquiring about the #1 overall pick is evidence of something below the surface. Which MAY turn out to be true. But the fact is....Loomis inquires about the #1 overall pick quite often. If the #1 ain't for sale, he inquires about #2, or #3, until he gets a basis for the cost of the jump. Doesn't matter if we select #9, or #29. It seems to be part of how he sets up his value chart.

Although, one of these days, those folks thinking Loomis gonna pay to jump to #1 overall are likely to be correct.....SOME DAY!

Every team does. Every single team in the NFL inquiries about another's pick, from #1 all the way to #32. From there it comes a bit more selective to inquire about 2nd round picks to gauge cost and interest, and 3rd round, and 4th and so on.

This is how the league forms a cost base of trade value, and it changes from draft to draft despite what many believe.

This is done after they receive an iteration report from scouts on how many players with a first round grade, second round grade, etc..

This year there are about 12 players in this draft with a first round grade. Out of those 12 players there are only 4 or 5 with a top 10 grade. Most assuredly, those 4 or 5 player's will be picked before the Saints @9 which leaves a discrepancy of player value vs top 10 draft pick value which is why the odds of Saints trading back is not good unless the Saints are willing to take lower compensation then years average for #9 pick.

 

[WilliamBrees]

We have a historic reference point of what It would cost to move from 9 to 1. The true value is subjective because how the other team feels about the player is a piece to the compensation puzzle. The Bills for instance didn't have Mahomes valued highly so the cost for the Chiefs to move up nearly 17 spots was minimal. Two 1st and a 3rd. Looking back that pick was worth infinitely more.

Panthers receive:

• 2023 first-round pick (No. 1 overall)

Bears receive:

• WR D.J. Moore
• 2023 first-round pick (No. 9 overall)
• 2023 second-round pick (No. 61 overall)
• 2024 first-round pick (No. 1 overall)
• 2025 second-round pick

From the Saints persepctive you're looking at

• WR Chris Olave
• 2025 first-round pick
• 2025 2nd round pick
• 2026 1st round pick
• 2027 2nd round pick.

The value for 61 vs our 40th pick, if we send it to them would likely result in us getting say a 4th or 5th rounder back, and if not I'm sure they'd figure out how to make that value correlate. Regardless, the trade didn't handicap the Panthers and it wouldn't handicap the Saints. Teams tend to overvalue early round picks and undervalue late rounders.

We'd still have enough ammo to add depth this year (it's not like we have many starting spots open...LG, CB, maybe WR after trade) and some money in FA to sign a Veteran late.

You could also recoup a pick or two if you trade Carr at some point. Likely get a 2nd for him, especially if you lower his cap hit like you did this year.

That's because Carolina was already a bad team. Even without injuries. They're nowhere close to getting back to the SB. They're not even close to winning a playoff game or getting a wild card. Overrated team for sure.

 

[WilliamBrees]

I don’t think it gets done…and nobody should. But Mickey Loomis isn’t traveling unless there’s a good reason. Are are less costly/easier ways to smokescreen

If the Titans think Cam Ward will be elite, why would they trade the pick? The Texans went from worst to first in the AFC South. Why would the Titans not think they can do that since QB play was what cost them the AFC South in 2022.