Saints withdraw 2012 Superbowl bid (1 Viewer)

[MLU]

New Stadium=Super Bowl

New Contract = Superbowl

Looooooong before ground is ever broken on a new stadium...

 

[Canonized]

What's unusual about it? You know it's April when the state announces they're short. They have been short since April 2002. This is nothing new.

The Louisiana State Constitution limits what a budget surplus can be spent on to reduce opportunities for fraud.

Suddenly the Superdome with a bid on a Superbowl and Final Four in the same year doesn't look so outdated...

The money comes from the Hotel/Motel tax. How is the state at fault? Did they not collect it from someone? With record numbers in tourism the state still defaulted on the payments that Tagliabue said were something the Saints had to get away from. Mike Foster and Tom Benson are both at fault for agreeing on a contract that the city's tourism industry couldn't possibly keep up with.

The Saints aren't getting the 2012 Superbowl regardless of what Benson does. That's almost assuredly a lock for Indy who finally came through for the NFL coffers and built a new stadium. Plus, Benson is negotiating a new <s>ransom</s> contract with the state and a key argument he's trying to make is that he needs a new stadium. How is he going to successfully argue that the Superdome is outdated while it hosts the world's premier sporting event a few years from now?

Also, the Superbowl is on Feb 5th, 2012. Mardi Gras runs from Friday, January 6, 2012 through Tuesday, February 21, 2012, which explains why the city isnt making a big push for it. Still., it's awesome of Tom to attempt to spin it as "the city's fault" for not trying hard enough. He's not going to blame the city's biggest money maker, so he blames another sporting event a month away in hopes that the rest of us are too poor to own a calendar or too stupid to read a calender to realize that the Final Four is a month gone after the Superbowl.

******* ******...

Don't you people dare forget what he tried to do after Katrina. He is not your friend.

So since the state has been short since 2002 makes it ok for them to whine about their contractual obligations every single year? No it doesn't... it just makes Louisiana look like a state that is not willing nor able to live up to its end of any business deal. Suprise suprise.

As far as the limits set on the surplus spending... nonsense. They busted the cap last month. If the state choses to honor the contract, they can and will.

As far as the hotel/motel tax, a large portion of that money never leaves the hands of the state. Sure, they send back a pre-determined percentage for deals such as this one. They should release more in times like this. Politicians would love for you to believe that other revenue sources are tied up, and this is a hopeless situation. That is nonsense as well. They can and will divert funds and this deal will be saved. If not, you can blame the state... nobody else.

Beyond that, I agree with all of your points. They are good ones.

 

[Saint Tex]

This is old news, folks:

Saints push Super Bowl bid back at least a year - SaintsReport Community Forums

The deadline for submitting bids was Tuesday last week. Indy seems to be the lock to get it. New Orleans was expected to at least make a bid but without a new agreement with the state decided to wait an extra year.

Thanks, jimrip, for adding that. At first I thought Benson was ready to stop playing nice, and now no Tagliabue to help reign him in.

Knowing that the bid was only pushed back for a year, and with Indy a lock, I guess there's no need to suspect that Benson has just been biding his time until the Katrina mess is in the distant enough past that he can leave the city.

I really don't trust him, but I'm willing--very much so--to let him prove to me that his change of heart about staying in New Orleans was real.

 

[HardCard]

hahaha... so where are all the 'superdome is fine' and 'the saints aren't leaving' guys now? I told you so...


unfornately we're all going to lose though.

 

[MLU]

So since the state has been short since 2002 makes it ok for them to whine about their contractual obligations every single year? No it doesn't... it just makes Louisiana look like a state that is not willing nor able to live up to its end of any business deal. Suprise suprise.

It makes Louisiana look like a state that's tired of getting ripped off. We already look foolish as the only state to offer a sports franchise such a deal. I don't see anyone whining either. You're going to need to supply me with a link.

As far as the limits set on the surplus spending... nonsense. They busted the cap last month. If the state choses to honor the contract, they can and will.

Who said the state can't honor the contract? Nobody on this thread. This happens every year. The state announces a shortfall oin the hotel/motel tax. Tom Benson says something classless and the the state has a special session to approve the payment of the difference to Benson Football, LLC (a Texas business) out of the general fund.

The state constitution limits what surpluses can be used for. You just can't snap your fingers and do what you want. That's the kind of business climate we want to change. It will have to come from somewhere else or they will have to amend the state constitution.

As far as the hotel/motel tax, a large portion of that money never leaves the hands of the state. Sure, they send back a pre-determined percentage for deals such as this one. They should release more in times like this. Politicians would love for you to believe that other revenue sources are tied up, and this is a hopeless situation. That is nonsense as well. They can and will divert funds and this deal will be saved. If not, you can blame the state... nobody else.

Beyond that, I agree with all of your points. They are good ones.

I don't know what specifically the funds are used for so I won't pretend that I do. I am sure that some of it is used in other areas like infrastructure improvement, the convention center, etc. However, cash payments to a private company come last if you ask me.

I have no sympathy for Tom Benson. He came crying to the state, begging them to find a way to keep the Saints from being at the bottom of the revenue-producing list in the NFL. As a result, he is the only professional sports franchise that receives cash payments from a state government. Now that the state has issues meeting the lofty promises (created by a lame duck Governor who knew he would never have to sign the checks or beg for the Legislature to cover shortfalls) he refuses to renegotiate and makes remarks like "Give me my money or tell me to leave".

 

[Broadmoor74]

Clearly New Orleans' crime problems and inability to host large crowds with a shrunken police force are to blame.

 

[msusaintsfan]

Benson is a Car Salesmen.....who has ever trusted him? I have never have since his first threat to move the team.

Honestly, I wish the State would just purchase the team ala Green Bay and we would never have to worry about this again. With a Billion dollar surplus I say what the heck, buy'em and tell Benson have fun in San Antonio......ok that is a dream scenario, but as long as Benson owns the team there will always be th threat of moving the team.

 

[jimrip]

Here's the one thing I could never understand.. it looks like the state has to cough up about 6 or 7 million each year to cover the shortfall from the hotel tax. Blanco continually whined about giving the Saints any money to subsidize the team.. and yet her constant delaying of getting a deal done has already cost the team of hosting a minimum of 2 Superbowls. The most recent estimate of the economic impact of ONE Superbowl is 300 to 400 MILLION dollars. Isn't that kinda like hitting the jackpot on a slot machine and then whining about how much you had to put in?

 

[MLU]

Here's the one thing I could never understand.. it looks like the state has to cough up about 6 or 7 million each year to cover the shortfall from the hotel tax. Blanco continually whined about giving the Saints any money to subsidize the team.. and yet her constant delaying of getting a deal done has already cost the team of hosting a minimum of 2 Superbowls. The most recent estimate of the economic impact of ONE Superbowl is 300 to 400 MILLION dollars. Isn't that kinda like hitting the jackpot on a slot machine and then whining about how much you had to put in?

Wow, where are you getting your information from? I recall debating this topic pretty fiercely the past few years and I don't remember any of what you just typed.

1) Blanco didn't whine about giving the Saints any money. The complaint was that the shortfall was having to come out of the general state budget because the projected source of revenue for the payments was not accurate. The request was made to adjust the annual payments to an amount more in-line with what the hotel/motel tax actually generated.

2) Blanco tried to get a deal done. She even proposed the construction of a new stadium which many will quickly shoot down as her going through the motions, yet it was more than anyone else has come close to doing. Benson did not show a willingness to negotiate with her because she approached him with the request to reduce the amount of the payments. Both parties opted to slinging mud at each other instead of getting a deal done.

3) New Orleans was not about to get a Superbowl with the string of new stadiums already promised Superbowls. It's possible that the Saints might have been in the running for the 2007 Superbowl, but the rest were to newly built or renovated stadiums since the last New Orleans Superbowl. The teams with newer stadiums are going to get the nod over New Orleans since those cities decided to subsidize their respective NFL teams with new digs.

A quick search of "economic impact of a superbowl" reveals an article from january of 2007 that predicted a "record $195 million in direct spending for Miami-Dade" during Superbowl XLI. The huge $300 million dollar numbers you see (someplace that I have never seen) are probably inflated figures using economic multipliers which are highly debated. Regardless, the state budget doesn't see all of that money. The immediate area sees that money, which is why the annual payments are to come from .... the local hotel/motel tax.

Starting to make sense yet?

 

[HardCard]

yeah, it makes sense.... New Orleans/Louisiana can no longer support a modern NFL franchise..

They should move.

 

[SuperSaint]

This only reminds us and refocuses the point that there are serious issues remaining to be resolved concerning the Saints long-term future in Louisiana.

I hope they can get something figured out, if the Saints ever leave, they will take part of my soul with them.

 

[MLU]

yeah, it makes sense.... New Orleans/Louisiana can no longer support a modern NFL franchise..

They should move.

I'm not really sure how I should respond to such a comment while still following the TOS for this forum. I know you don't really wish for the Saints to leave, but such comments are purely inflammatory which some might interpret as violating this site's TOS. Perhaps if you gave more of an explanation or re-worded your feelings on the matter then your comments could be appreciated in the light you truly wish to convey.

However, if you simply wish to be a D-bag then I guess that's your prerogative as well...

 

[NCSaint]

yeah, it makes sense.... New Orleans/Louisiana can no longer support a modern NFL franchise..

They should move.

Did you forget to turn sarchasm on/off? Your kidding right? You been around since 2001 so you can't be serious (I hope).

 

[jimrip]

Wow, where are you getting your information from? I recall debating this topic pretty fiercely the past few years and I don't remember any of what you just typed.

1) Blanco didn't whine about giving the Saints any money. The complaint was that the shortfall was having to come out of the general state budget because the projected source of revenue for the payments was not accurate. The request was made to adjust the annual payments to an amount more in-line with what the hotel/motel tax actually generated.

2) Blanco tried to get a deal done. She even proposed the construction of a new stadium which many will quickly shoot down as her going through the motions, yet it was more than anyone else has come close to doing. Benson did not show a willingness to negotiate with her because she approached him with the request to reduce the amount of the payments. Both parties opted to slinging mud at each other instead of getting a deal done.

3) New Orleans was not about to get a Superbowl with the string of new stadiums already promised Superbowls. It's possible that the Saints might have been in the running for the 2007 Superbowl, but the rest were to newly built or renovated stadiums since the last New Orleans Superbowl. The teams with newer stadiums are going to get the nod over New Orleans since those cities decided to subsidize their respective NFL teams with new digs.

A quick search of "economic impact of a superbowl" reveals an article from january of 2007 that predicted a "record $195 million in direct spending for Miami-Dade" during Superbowl XLI. The huge $300 million dollar numbers you see (someplace that I have never seen) are probably inflated figures using economic multipliers which are highly debated. Regardless, the state budget doesn't see all of that money. The immediate area sees that money, which is why the annual payments are to come from .... the local hotel/motel tax.

Starting to make sense yet?

Let me see if I can clear it up a little for you.

1) You basicly rephrased exactly what I wrote. The income from the hotel tax was earmarked for the Saints.. the state did not pay a penny into it. Therefore, Blanco did not "give" that money to the Saints. The part the state had to make up was as you stated "the shortfall". This was the amount that Blanco wanted reduced to zero (as in "any"). Your summary line says just that.. that Blanco wanted only hotel tax money to go to the Saints. Where's the disagreement?

2) I must have been absent the day Blanco offered a new state-built stadium to Benson and him turning it down. It seems the whole internet was absent too because I couldn't find any instance of it. If it even came up in a conversation, it was probably a Benson/NFL financed stadium. In either case, that is off-topic to what I was discussing.

3) I might have been a little obtuse here. By 2 Superbowls, I was referring to 2010 and 2012. I'm pretty sure the 2007 Superbowl was awarded before Blanco entered office, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, you are perfectly correct about the string of new stadiums getting Superbowls. Arizona in 2008, Tampa (old stadium) 2009, New Giants Stadium 2010, New Dallas Stadium 2011. Well it turns out that the new Giants stadium won't be ready in 2010 so the NFL turned to who?... Miami just hosted the Superbowl in 2007. The obvious choice? New Orleans!! But New Orleans does not have a deal in place.. so Miami gets a second Superbowl in 3 years. The latest bid is the topic of this thread, 2012. Again.. no deal, no bid. 2 Superbowls.

4) azcentral.com | Phoenix Arizona News - Arizona Local News
You can debate this one all you want.. I'm not an economics professor by any means. The "official" NFL claim is 300 to 400 million. Google "superbowl economic impact". All I know is that if a waiter makes a few extra bucks during the super bowl, he tends to spend it. If he spends it at a local store, that store owner spends the extra profit he just made. Each time the money is spent, the state gets a sales tax cut. All from money brought in from out of town. Which gets back to my original point.. doesn't an investment from the general fund of 6 or 7 million make sense to bring in the millions from not only the Superbowl but the priceless exposure the city and state get from hosting it?

 

[MLU]

Let me see if I can clear it up a little for you.

1) You basicly rephrased exactly what I wrote. The income from the hotel tax was earmarked for the Saints.. the state did not pay a penny into it. Therefore, Blanco did not "give" that money to the Saints. The part the state had to make up was as you stated "the shortfall". This was the amount that Blanco wanted reduced to zero (as in "any"). Your summary line says just that.. that Blanco wanted only hotel tax money to go to the Saints. Where's the disagreement?

The state determines where the money goes, thus the state gives it to the Saints. If they didn't give it to the state, they would be giving it to the convention center, arena, Superdome, etc. It would go somewhere else. I have no problems giving Tom that money, but he has no right to money out of the general fund any more than the Shaw Group, Harrah's or any other business.

2) I must have been absent the day Blanco offered a new state-built stadium to Benson and him turning it down. It seems the whole internet was absent too because I couldn't find any instance of it. If it even came up in a conversation, it was probably a Benson/NFL financed stadium. In either case, that is off-topic to what I was discussing.

He didn't turn it down. Local NOLA businessmen and politicians shot it down before it ever got started. Blanco proposed a new stadium as part of the Convention Center expansion, actually reducing the expansion to provide for the new stadium. The world was busy criticizing Blanco for being a woman, crying, blathering, etc. so when she proposed such a thing, they became deathly silent in hopes no one would point out what dumb***es they were.

A Google search of "blanco proposed stadium" shows this article on the first page of results. How hard did you look? I had links bookmarked to both the Baton Rouge Advocate and the Times Picayune, but neither appear to be valid any longer.

3) I might have been a little obtuse here. By 2 Superbowls, I was referring to 2010 and 2012. I'm pretty sure the 2007 Superbowl was awarded before Blanco entered office, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, you are perfectly correct about the string of new stadiums getting Superbowls. Arizona in 2008, Tampa (old stadium) 2009, New Giants Stadium 2010, New Dallas Stadium 2011. Well it turns out that the new Giants stadium won't be ready in 2010 so the NFL turned to who?... Miami just hosted the Superbowl in 2007. The obvious choice? New Orleans!! But New Orleans does not have a deal in place.. so Miami gets a second Superbowl in 3 years. The latest bid is the topic of this thread, 2012. Again.. no deal, no bid. 2 Superbowls.

The city doesn't want the 2012 Superbowl because it's smack dab in the middle of Mardi Gras season. Officials for either the city or the Superdome commission already said this like two weeks ago. We were not getting another Superbowl before Miami received a Superbowl. It's just seems to be the natural rotation of the games between New Orleans, Miami and Pasedena. The rest went to new stadium (or newly renovated stadium) cities.

4) azcentral.com | Phoenix Arizona News - Arizona Local News
You can debate this one all you want.. I'm not an economics professor by any means. The "official" NFL claim is 300 to 400 million. Google "superbowl economic impact". All I know is that if a waiter makes a few extra bucks during the super bowl, he tends to spend it. If he spends it at a local store, that store owner spends the extra profit he just made. Each time the money is spent, the state gets a sales tax cut. All from money brought in from out of town. Which gets back to my original point.. doesn't an investment from the general fund of 6 or 7 million make sense to bring in the millions from not only the Superbowl but the priceless exposure the city and state get from hosting it?

read up on economic multipliers and then get back to me. Until you do, this discussion is going to be over your head. It's already over mine and I have done a good bit of reading. I just know that as a rule of thumb when you're given different sets of numbers, you have to take into account who is reporting the numbers and their (possible) motivations. Regardless, even it the economic impact is Eleventy Trillion dollars, the impact is less into the state's budget and more into the pockets of vendors. Sure some of it filters down into the taxes, but no where near the millions and millions that sports franchises, politicians, etc. like to brag about.