salary cap hell! (2 Viewers)

[St. Geezy]

9 years ago we were 10 million over the cap... It has not been 10 years. This year that number has grown substantially. Let's just dig deeper.

And so has the cap and overall flexibility. The annual jumps, the most important part, are getting bigger too.

You will also find that we are getting better at the strategy and have positioned ourselves to get out of the so-called "jams" for lack of better word, each year with ease.

I say lack of better word because there is a lot of intent and planning with our "jams," as evidenced by the way we write our contracts.

 

[St. Geezy]

then act like someone who has 15 years experience

 

[St. Geezy]

Here is the same thread, from 2011, going into 2012.

With the Saints staring at "cap Hell" next offseason... Let's look at the salaries..

I found this breakdown of the Saints player salaries, and I noticed some pretty weird numbers...Guys like Jahri Evans, Ben Grubbs, and Broderick Bunkley have HUGE bumps in their base salaries next year. They all have base salaries of $700K this season, but next season they jump up to the likes...

saintsreport.com

And what ended up crushing us from 2012-2016? Signing guys like Brandon Browner to bad contracts, our coaching staff being destroyed by bounty gate, and multiple years of very poor drafting. Same cycle, rinse and repeat.

 

[St. Geezy]

This is a long watch, and I am sure the people that don't want to see what I am saying likely won't watch (especially the one currently still going back and "Falconing" all my posts at this very moment), but this is worth the time.



Particularly starting at about the 4:45 mark, he talks about how the salary cap is merely an accounting mechanism. There are always ways to manipulate that mechanism when you're dealing with a steadily rising cap. The cap is more of an inconvenience than a prohibitory thing. It all boils down to WHO you are giving the money to. Obviously you need to be responsible, but in the end, you can make your payroll work and stretch things further by continuously working from the future, where those future dollars are worth more today than they will be later.

Again though, not frequently acquiring busts is key, no matter what you do or strategy you deploy.

 

[Clintonrebel]

Here is the same thread, from 2011, going into 2012.

With the Saints staring at "cap Hell" next offseason... Let's look at the salaries..

I found this breakdown of the Saints player salaries, and I noticed some pretty weird numbers...Guys like Jahri Evans, Ben Grubbs, and Broderick Bunkley have HUGE bumps in their base salaries next year. They all have base salaries of $700K this season, but next season they jump up to the likes...

saintsreport.com

And what ended up crushing us from 2012-2016? Signing guys like Brandon Browner to bad contracts, our coaching staff being destroyed by bounty gate, and multiple years of very poor drafting. Same cycle, rinse and repeat.

This might be the best post in a long thread of not so good posts. Look at those 2011 salaries! Amazing how salaries have escalated.

 

[St. Geezy]

This might be the best post in a long thread of not so good posts. Look at those 2011 salaries! Amazing how salaries have escalated.

It's hilarious. It's the same thing virtually every year. And then every so often we have a year like this one where the theme is "Well this is the year they'll REALLY suffer."

They act like the team hasn't planned and prepared for this, or like the team is just now finding out that they'd be $80 million over the cap going into 2024. No, they planned for this, have very detailed spreadsheets/cap analytics programs and contractual mechanisms in place to remedy this just like they planned for an easy way out of it AND to be able to add over $30 million worth of cap space if the situation(s) present themselves to where they'd want to use it this off-season.

We are going to be fine from an accounting standpoint guys, relax and focus on worrying about us having a good draft and signing the right key free agent or three this off-season.

 

[kcirdor]

nice picture... the snowball hasn't hit it yet....

 

[lilvipa221]

Sorry but I’m not going to say that only 1 season of the 57 or however many we have played was successful.

If that makes my standards strange, so be it. I happen to believe I just have an understanding of how hard winning a championship is and how much luck is involved with it, and to measure everything you do as a boom or bust proposition off of said luck is somewhat silly and will lead to always being angry over something you have less control over than many realize.

To me, the GOAL is to make yourself a consistent round 2 caliber playoff team; the DREAM is to win the Super Bowl.

Your last sentence is the root of most of the arguments people have with you. Your goal is different from everyone else's and that is why you are okay with the money strategy. Teams like the Bills and Cowboys get a ton of hate for being that team that hits your goal. Nobody else is okay with just being second round caliber.

 

[lilvipa221]

It's hilarious. It's the same thing virtually every year. And then every so often we have a year like this one where the theme is "Well this is the year they'll REALLY suffer."

They act like the team hasn't planned and prepared for this, or like the team is just now finding out that they'd be $80 million over the cap going into 2024. No, they planned for this, have very detailed spreadsheets/cap analytics programs and contractual mechanisms in place to remedy this just like they planned for an easy way out of it AND to be able to add over $30 million worth of cap space if the situation(s) present themselves to where they'd want to use it this off-season.

We are going to be fine from an accounting standpoint guys, relax and focus on worrying about us having a good draft and signing the right key free agent or three this off-season.

This actually proves everyone else's point and not your own. It actually proves that accounting/financial wise we are in big trouble. Yes the salary cap goes up but so does average salaries at a higher level.

Pay attention to the Total liabilities on the left.......We are currently over the 2027 cap with CURRENT salaries in today's dollars and those numbers do not include raises in players pay that have to be factored in either.

 

[St. Geezy]

Your last sentence is the root of most of the arguments people have with you. Your goal is different from everyone else's and that is why you are okay with the money strategy. Teams like the Bills and Cowboys get a ton of hate for being that team that hits your goal. Nobody else is okay with just being second round caliber.

Being second round caliber is what puts you in position to achieve your dream though.

The point of my last paragraph is that generally achieving that dream consists of elements you can’t control or have to get a little bit of luck with - injuries, lucky ball bounces, OT coin tosses, made or missed field goals, or pivotal officiating blunders that go your way in crunch time.

There is only so much you can do to make your team great. To me, being great is positioning yourself to consistently be in the mix in January so that one day that luck may come.

Not everyone can be the Patriots, or right now, the Chiefs. They are the anomaly, and you will be one consistently frustrated fan if you consider that the only path to happiness with your favorite football team.

 

[St. Geezy]

This actually proves everyone else's point and not your own. It actually proves that accounting/financial wise we are in big trouble. Yes the salary cap goes up but so does average salaries at a higher level.

Pay attention to the Total liabilities on the left.......We are currently over the 2027 cap with CURRENT salaries in today's dollars and those numbers do not include raises in players pay that have to be factored in either.

Eh, I don’t agree with your interpretation here.

Your interpretation only makes sense if the salary cap ends in 2027. As we know, it doesn’t, and barring a massive change in the CBA, there will be more years to pull from then.

 

[Yingers70]

"I'm having none of it." What are you, the board police?

It is a thread about impending doom and gloom about the salary cap and roster building, and yes, the things I talk about pertain to that.

Just because I don't see your side the same and I am not on a total warpath about it doesn't make my part of the conversation any less relevant.

All I am doing is offering my own perspective and thoughts in that we are doing many of the same things other teams do, and are merely facing a different version of the same type of roster restrictions you fear, and my over-arching theme is that no team can survive years of poor draft and free agent busts, and coaching busts.

If me talking about the things that go into the salary cap and trying to talk people off of the ledge about it does not pertain to a thread titled "Salary cap hell" then you're free to ignore, but I will be talking about what I damn well please and where I please to do it.

You’re correct, years of poor drafts and free agent busts and coaching busts, no team can survive. But you fail to see that a team that year after year of restructures practically every higher paid veteran on the roster and pushing that money into future years is not survivable either.

You may not see any inherent danger in the way ML runs our cap currently, but the rest of us can see it. We have pointed out the reasons why we have this concern and you obviously don’t see it and disagree or your just playing devil’s advocate, idk. But that’s your prerogative either way. Regardless you aren’t changing any opinions and this thread seems to have run its course.

 

[St. Geezy]

You’re correct, years of poor drafts and free agent busts and coaching busts, no team can survive. But you fail to see that a team that year after year of restructures practically every higher paid veteran on the roster and pushing that money into future years is not survivable either.

You may not see any inherent danger in the way ML runs our cap currently, but the rest of us can see it. We have pointed out the reasons why we have this concern and you obviously don’t see it and disagree or your just playing devil’s advocate, idk. But that’s your prerogative either way. Regardless you aren’t changing any opinions and this thread seems to have run its course.

I just believe that we are focusing on the wrong problem. I do think our way is less than ideal, I just think it has become an easy boogeyman to target when there are much more pressing, foundational issues in the way we assess and acquire player talent, as well as coaching talent, for that matter.

Our roster isn't egregiously better or worse because of how we run our salary cap. I think the team is not great (won't call us bad) simply because we keep making bad moves like drafting the wrong guys, signing the wrong guys, and keeping the wrong coaches...that's just my opinion.

It is okay to disagree. At the end of the day, neither side can prove it is factually right or wrong, and ultimately neither side can actually change what we do, so what does it even matter? All we can do is sit back and see if we continue this path or not, and see whether it works out or not.

 

[RebSaint]

9 years ago we were 10 million over the cap... It has not been 10 years. This year that number has grown substantially. Let's just dig deeper.

 

[Yingers70]

It is okay to disagree. At the end of the day, neither side can prove it is factually right or wrong, and ultimately neither side can actually change what we do, so what does it even matter? All we can do is sit back and see if we continue this path or not, and see whether it works out or not.

Yes, at the end of the day only ML will decide how we manage our cap, unless Gayle puts her foot down. Don’t see that happening. But what it is doing for myself is making me wrestle with how much of my time I want to invest in this team going forward. I see a slow decline with no hope of significant improvement under our current fiscal management. And as a lifelong Saints fan, that is depressing.