Scrap helmets and pads, improve safety and technique (3 Viewers)

[Saint Jeremy]

the second quote in there relates to american football helmets....."Helmets and other devices have been shown to reduce the risk of severe head and facial injury, but current designs appear to make little difference to rates of concussion."

So which would you rather have? A fractured skull or a concussion?

I was recently in a pretty bad car accident. My worst injury was a mild concussion from whacking my head against the head rest and a cracked rib from being restrained by the seat belt. So, in relation to your argument, I would have been better off with no seatbelt and no head rest. In which case, I would have been either impaled against the steering column or had my neck broken by whiplash.

Again, which would you rather have?

 

[Saint Jeremy]

you are now starting to make some very valid points....reduced impact forces, absorption and impact speed is certainly a counter argument to no pads, but I think lighter pads and more shock absorbing helmets is certainly a way to go

There are more and more concussions in soccer, especially in the school level. Why? Because you don't have to hit your head to get a concussion. A concussion can happen when you are traveling at a high speed and then you are not, either you fall or get hit. Your skull stops, but your brain is still moving and bounces around the inside of your head. Your skull actually causes the concussion.

You will not be able to reduce the force or speed of most football hits unless you slow down the game considerably. And then, as someone said, you may as well just watch rugby.

 

[jerryrip]

the one in that study is a rugby style scrum cap head gear, less plastic shell than an NFL style helmet

«Two teenage hockey players died in
summary New Brunswick ^ a result of brain
injury suffered while playing minor-league hockey.
Both players wore hockey helmets. The first was
body checked and fell. He suffered several con¬
tusions of the cerebral cortex and hemorrhages in
the brain stem without fracture of the skull. His
condition was aggravated by previous minor head
trauma. The second player was hit by a hockey
stick and suffered a depressed fracture of the right
temporal bone with cerebral contusion and hemor¬
rhage. It is emphasized that: (1) the so-called
protective helmet of amateur hockey players gives
only limited protection, even in minor accidents;
and (2) a minor brain concussion with loss of con¬
sciousness may set the stage for subsequent lethal
brain damage, even in the absence of skull fracture
or epidural hematoma. Further experimental studies
are being planned in collaboration with the Depart¬
ment of Mechanical Engineering of the University
of New Brunswick, Fredericton, to measure certain
features of the protective hockey helmets in view
of their lack of effectiveness in preventing brain
damage.

This quote was from a 1966 study on hockey helmets by Dr. Melvyn J. Ball a Canadian Researcher from the Dept. of Pathology, Uni of Toronto

This is ludicrous. The problem with your whole argument is that you're quoting studies from 1966 and studies from 1945-1999. You can quote studies till the end of time, but where are the studies that show that player safety has actually improved or declined in the last 13 years since your last study? The argument that players would hit less hard if they didn't wear helmets and pads is unsustainable. These are young guys in their 20s and 30s who think that they are indestructible, and if you take away helmets and pads you might as well change half of the rules and destroy the whole game we know as professional football. Plus you would have to change everything in the college and high school ranks as well, maybe even down to peewee football! It's just insane to screw with everything at this point. It's simply a knee-jerk reaction to all of this hoopla with player safety.

 

[Sitch]

Ok so first of all yes I agree concussion's don't necessarily just come from direct trauma but also indirect, everyone is aware that it's the brain hitting the inside of the skull, I heard an interview on radio months ago in which this effect was described as being doublefold by a researcher when wearing a current NFL style plastic shelled helmet. Also, the alternative helmet ideas interest me greatly as proposed by ace and another member who suggested fixing poor technique with a training helmet. The YouTube video I posted earlier shows BIG hits occurring at fast paces in which no one broke their skull and most got up and played on, the rugby code that most of you are referring to as being slow is the traditional form of the game called rugby union, in which they still endure hard hits but at a lack of pace due to the defensive spacing rules, in a breakaway code called rugby league there is a 10 metre spacing rule between defense and offense and this game is much quicker, a study I heard quoted in regard to a particular player they mentioned who appears on the YouTube video measured the forces applied when he shoulder charged or tackled and they found that it is equivalent to being hit by a small truck at his heaviest hit and a 250kg fridge on his lightest. What they also found is that because the game is so professional and much quicker these days the players bones are much more dense and resilient also not only from being hit regularly like this but improved functional weight training. The great Pierre Thomas would be broken several times already pads or not if what your saying is legit

 

[Sitch]

Old style or not it's still relevant as the fundamentals of a human colliding with another with protection on is being measured....regress before you progress, the body is a machine itself, it doesn't need to have machinery added

 

[Sitch]

I encourage you all to go outside and with your current levels of fitness and strength get a football out, warm up correctly and play a mini game with your mates and just play 5 mins pad and helmet free, I'm sure the vast majority of you have all done this before anyway but get serious about things in your contact game, and avoid hitting each other illegally in the head, it's really not that bad and once you are done it feels just like any other form of exercise with a few abrasions etc. afterwards which can be fixed with bandages and disinfectant, or if you are really game just some saline solution

 

[Sitch]

And please people, add your own studies which provide an alternative point of view suggesting there is a raft of articles which claim that adding equipment like this lowers the risk of injury in elite athletes or even amateur athletes...

 

[CoolBrees1]

So the debate over eliminating helmets and pads is basically turning American football into rugby style football...which I've basically never watched....nothing against the sport...but I like the American version of football better...talk about a culture shock to the fans who love American football and the style of play...

Can you imagine that if they decide to make the cars in Nascar drive slower...say under 100 mph to help improve the safety aspect of the sport...would Nascar fans still love the sport...I believe it's the thrill of speed that attracts them...

Take a look at any sport and think about what it would take to make the sport safer than what it is....it changes the whole aspect of the sport...they've already thought about going to wood bats vs alum bats in college...just think if pitchers weren't allowed to throw fastballs because of the possibility of a fastball hitting a batter...even with the helmets they wear...a misplaced fastball could injure a batter seriously...

 

[Aussaint]

State of Origin are some of the best matches ive ever seen!! The clubs absolutely hate each other and you are almost guaranteed to see a fight... But just as an add on, my stance on the pads or no pads issue is that we all know the pads arent going anywhere, its what makes american football, american football, i just wanted to help throw around the idea of no pads to get some opinions. The NFL players have been training for years at what they do, and the first year you take it away it could be disastrous.. players going for big hits out of reflex, many not having the proper technique. Football has gone too far with pads to go back to no pads, its all about making the gear safer now

 

[Saint Jeremy]

Anyone saying that has either an extremely limited understanding of, or more likely has never even watched, one game or the other - if not both.

The forward pass alone makes the games utterly different tactically from either code of rugby (indeed, that's why it's there in the first place), and the four downs limit makes football tactically very different from rugby union, but very similar to rugby league. It's likely that anyone saying such a thing is unlikely even to be aware that there are two different codes of rugby.

Anyone who doesn't see the differences other than the body armour might as well watch the brawls in the alley behind the bar after chucking out time. Or WWE

Yeah, except for the forward pass they are exactly the same...

Look, you may have a point about the line of scrimmage play, and there are a lot of repetitive hits there that could result in mild concussions. But the guys running at top speed and colliding with defensive players is what is a 'big hit' that can result in very bad injuries, concussions, neck and spine injuries etc. And you won't change that unless as I said you slow down the game. Limit passing and scoring. Which the NFL is NOT going to do, quite the opposite.

 

[Sitch]

sense being talked I like it, saw an article on NFL.com regarding heisman's introduction of the forward pass rule, when did that get introduced? obviously a revolutionary rule change and the man had a trophy named after him as recognition....is it pre-dating leather head days in which there was a form of grid iron in which there was no forward pass rule? Amazing to think that once upon a time that major part of the game didn't exist

 

[Sitch]

1895 seemingly in a tar heels game....interesting how the referee's just decided they would turn a blind eye to it then they pushed for it's inception and initially it was to improve safety as well, due to illegal formations and dirty scrimmaging tactics....I assume the positions of strong safety, safety and free safety not only came about because of heisman's revolutionary rule change but also because the position was made to be a safety in the backfield for deep throws....

 

[Saint Jeremy]

I agree with the hits on defenseless receivers and leading with the head/helmet. But those are already illegal, well, on passing plays outside of the line of scrimmage. I don't think they can eliminate them on the LOS plays, which I think is where a lot of the repetitive head injuries happen. The players probably don't realize that they are doing damage with every down.

 

[Sitch]

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/[url] ...r Corners episode it is on the preceding link