Scrap helmets and pads, improve safety and technique (1 Viewer)

[St. Widge]

great post AndyG......

the quotes are copied from my previous post on the studies I looked up

As Andy said, those are based on Rugby headgear, not NFL football helmets and you are also talking about a different sport with a different attitude. It's hard to assume a correlation between the two.

 

[Sitch]

the one in that study is a rugby style scrum cap head gear, less plastic shell than an NFL style helmet

«Two teenage hockey players died in
summary New Brunswick ^ a result of brain
injury suffered while playing minor-league hockey.
Both players wore hockey helmets. The first was
body checked and fell. He suffered several con¬
tusions of the cerebral cortex and hemorrhages in
the brain stem without fracture of the skull. His
condition was aggravated by previous minor head
trauma. The second player was hit by a hockey
stick and suffered a depressed fracture of the right
temporal bone with cerebral contusion and hemor¬
rhage. It is emphasized that: (1) the so-called
protective helmet of amateur hockey players gives
only limited protection, even in minor accidents;
and (2) a minor brain concussion with loss of con¬
sciousness may set the stage for subsequent lethal
brain damage, even in the absence of skull fracture
or epidural hematoma. Further experimental studies
are being planned in collaboration with the Depart¬
ment of Mechanical Engineering of the University
of New Brunswick, Fredericton, to measure certain
features of the protective hockey helmets in view
of their lack of effectiveness in preventing brain
damage.

This quote was from a 1966 study on hockey helmets by Dr. Melvyn J. Ball a Canadian Researcher from the Dept. of Pathology, Uni of Toronto

 

[Sitch]

a correlation can be made that a lighter piece of headgear is used providing little benefit to lowering concussion risk in a sport using similar movements and techniques, tackling in NFL and Rugby is very similar, granted we are talking about a different scale of helmet, but the study related to american football also says that the helmet is not much protection

 

[Sitch]

the second quote in there relates to american football helmets....."Helmets and other devices have been shown to reduce the risk of severe head and facial injury, but current designs appear to make little difference to rates of concussion."

 

[Sitch]

comparing the 2, headgear and helmets both provide little protection against concussive forces on the brain

 

[St. Widge]

a correlation can be made that a lighter piece of headgear is used providing little benefit to lowering concussion risk in a sport using similar movements and techniques, tackling in NFL and Rugby is very similar, granted we are talking about a different scale of helmet, but the study related to american football also says that the helmet is not much protection

What it suggests is that that softer type of helmet would not help with concussions, not that there isn't a kind of helmet that would help. There is a lot of new technology out there that may help the issue. Some is based on new developments in helmets. But, there are also things like the new Nike mouth pieces that apparently do something to put your jaw in a position that somehow reduces concussions.

 

[St. Widge]

comparing the 2, headgear and helmets both provide little protection against concussive forces on the brain

I don't think that "but current designs appear to make little difference to rates of concussion" is a particularly strong conclusion and not really strong enough to draw the conclusion that you want.

 

[St. Widge]

a correlation can be made that a lighter piece of headgear is used providing little benefit to lowering concussion risk in a sport using similar movements and techniques, tackling in NFL and Rugby is very similar, granted we are talking about a different scale of helmet, but the study related to american football also says that the helmet is not much protection

As you already suggested, Rugby players tackle different from NFL players because they are not wearing pads so it's really hard to use one sport to draw conclusions about the other sport. Pads change the impact speed, absorbtion and force so the variables are different in each sport.

 

[Sitch]

i agree with that point, mouth guards, as of my understanding are becoming more and more a greater way to avoid concussion, and also one of those earlier studies mention that 2 models were more effective but more research needs to be done as the others were as expected, less effective, so it's currently inconclusive, the result i want is improved safety whether that be better helmet designs which are backed by science to work and reduce risk. Rugby players tackle the way that NFL players used to tackle many years ago

 

[Sitch]

you are now starting to make some very valid points....reduced impact forces, absorption and impact speed is certainly a counter argument to no pads, but I think lighter pads and more shock absorbing helmets is certainly a way to go

 

[Sitch]

rugby players the majority wear mouth guards so that was never my suggestion to scrap those

 

[Sitch]

anyway, it was fun discussing with you all, i'm going to bed as it's late here.....go saints

 

[AceTW]

From another thread discussing helmets and safety. (Some tongue in cheek mind you...)

The Invention Of The American Football Helmet

I submitted this for fun of course, but still......

I have been giving serious thought to the whole concussion business in the NFL, and wrapping my head around the what's and how's of the way they occur.

I'm no doctor or engineer but I like to think I have a good head for figuring things out in a solid, easy to understand fashion. (My dad was a structural engineer, and almost all of my uncles were doctors so at least I've been around the mindset my whole life, if that counts...)

I know the experts have probably thought of everything but I never see the public discussion about a couple of things that I know unequivocally will impact the state of the cause of concussions in the NFL.

Layman's terms is all I know, so don't expect any Latin terms or fancy medical speak....

First, you have to see the root cause of a concussion. It's the brain slamming against the inside of the skull due to impact from the outside of the skull, basically "bruising" the brain. (The brain swims in fluid so it has a kind of 'wiggle room' inside the skull...)

When you have a high impact strike the skull is quickly and forcibly moved in a direction, while the brain in it's cozy little self contained swimming sphere can't move with it at said quick pace so the skull smacks into it. If you were looking at a fast, hard impact like this on a line graph you'd see a low horizontal line, then a quickly ascending spike (probably nearly vertical) then a very slightly more gradual dropping back down to the original horizontal line. It's that spike that's the root cause of a concussion. The spike happens because of the speed at which the skull is moved when it is struck.

Now, knowing that you cannot slow players down in this game, what you have to try to slow down is that spike of impact when they make contact with helmets. I know a lot of you have real NFL helmets (probably with team or individual signatures on them, you lucky $^&&##$%&**'s) so you can see for yourself the amount of padding that is inside them, it's a LOT. It's also rather stiff. If you'll 'test' the outer shell of the helmet, you'll see it's much stiffer yet. Football helmets are really rather hard, all things considered.
And that's where I see the whole of the problem.
Sure, tons of stiff padding = protection. Hard, stiff shell = protection

But also....

Stiff = energy transfer

Stiff Energy transfer = energy spikes at moment of impact

spikes at moment of impact = concussions

So you've got to round off those spikes. Make them take longer to develop, thereby lessening their transfer of energy to the skull.
The helmet design I've got in my head is comprised of 2 shells. A more flexible outer shell (roughly half the stiffness of one of today's helmets) and a normal inner shell to assist in distributing any sudden impact that makes it through the outer shell.
Now, between the 2 shells is a 1/4" gap filled with non-fastened sorbothane balls 1mm smaller than the 1/4" void itself. They don't roll around or anything because they are placed in a single layer that completely fills the void between the 2 shells. The advantage I see here is that you've got an outer layer that has more 'give' and will absorb that 'moment of impact' in a lazier manner than a stiff shell, and a second layer that is essentially a blanket of kinetic energy absorbing foam that would further dispel that 'energy spike' before the wearer's skull even moves.

Think of the difference this way, it's a little of an extreme example but it should get the point across.

You've all seen those executive time wasters that involve a row of ball bearings hanging by wires all in a row, and when you pull an end one back, let it go and it strikes the other steel balls the impact and transference of energy travels all the way through the line popping the ball at the far end off about the same distance the first ball was dropped.

Imagine the same item but with softer, plastic balls hanging from the wires. Pull back the end one, let it go, and the energy transference you'll see at the other end will be far less.

I expect on that graph we talked about earlier you wouldn't see that almost vertical spike of energy anymore, but instead one smaller in height and more angled out or rounded.

I firmly believe that a helmet of this design (perhaps done by REAL engineers though) would successfully curb the concussion rate this game currently has.

 

[Saint Jeremy]

Yes that is very true, injuries are part and parcel of playing a collision sport but head trauma can be minimized not eliminated

Before the modern helmet and facemask, players had fractured skulls, broken noses and worse injuries.

Playing without equipment is just plain stupid.

 

[Saint Jeremy]

The difference being that those performing in a ballet are generally very talented.

And the male dancers are less effeminate than the Falcon players.