Scrap helmets and pads, improve safety and technique (4 Viewers)

[OhioSaintsFan]

If I wanted to watch ballet, I'd watch me a Falcons' game.

The difference being that those performing in a ballet are generally very talented.

 

[Sitch]

how do i embed video to prove to you guys that you can make tough big hits without needing pads and helmets??

watch this:

2011 NRL Biggest Hits - YouTube

and this:

Ben Te'o Big Hit - YouTube

and this:

Karmichael Hunt - Bump on Monfries - Round 3 vs Essendon; 14/4/12 - YouTube

tell me that these big fat ***** at defensive tackle and nose tackle are better athletes.....go on, just try

 

[Sitch]

some of those 'ballerinas' in the youtube vids I posted are the toughest athletes to grace a football field and are encouraged to iron out others legally with encouragement from the governing body, what happened to our saints is considered ludicrous and absurd in the sport they play

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

since you're a fan of rugby you know that there aren't any down field passes
no helmets means no downfield passing
in rugby's backward passing the receiver sees all defenders in front of him - obviously not the case going over the middle

 

[Aussaint]

I'm not coming to say im an expert on the sport cause im far from it, but speaking from experience (played rugby since i was 12), i have NEVER once been injured in a tackle.. Yes it happens to players, of course it does, but you can't outright say that no pads and helmets means more injuries or more concussions. Players will be safer (concussion-wise) and change tackling techniques to bring players down. You dont need a hard hit to bring big guys down, perfect technique like hitting the middle of their thighs with your shoulder and they will go down like a sack of ****. Players would also have to adapt to the new style and it would take a lot getting use to but all im saying is that the idea of no pads should be explored because it has shown to work in other sporting fields

 

[Aussaint]

since you're a fan of rugby you know that there aren't any down field passes
no helmets means no downfield passing
in rugby's backward passing the receiver sees all defenders in front of him - obviously not the case going over the middle

Somewhat correct, there are many instances where players dont see defenders and get blindsided with a huge hit... but in the NFL no player without a helmet will go high on another player going over the middle. hit them in the chest with your shoulder and they will go down just as quickly

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Somewhat correct, there are many instances where players dont see defenders and get blindsided with a huge hit... but in the NFL no player without a helmet will go high on another player going over the middle. hit them in the chest with your shoulder and they will go down just as quickly

soccer and aussie rules contradict this statement
luckily for both of those incoming balls are mostly lofted and the defender is right beside the offensive guy - in passing the ball is more level and the defender might be closing down from 10-15 yards away - 250lbs with speed and momentum -- this is more the issue
in boxing the 2 are toe to toe - if one boxer was able to take a 10 yr headstart and hit his opponent from behind, i'm not sure anyone would be saying, "yeah. let's do away with gloves"

 

[St4ever]

Getting rid of air bags in cars will not make people drive more safely either. Your thought has flaws you just do not see them.

 

[krushing]

If you take away roll cage, helmets, seat belts and Hans devices safe walls, etc.. Will NASCAR drivers be safer? No way.

Problem isn't wearing safety equipment, it exactly the opposite. Saftey equipment (helmets) haven't kept up to the size and speed of today's players. The other thing is we now know what those repeated hits to the head do. We need way better helmets. Possibly Adding a softer layer to the outside of the helmets and pads would help.

 

[cadman70454]

St4ever said:

"Getting rid of air bags in cars will not make people drive more safely either. Your thought has flaws you just do not see them."

I disagree and will take your statement one step farther. To paraphrase economist Dr. Walter Williams, if your goal is to create safer drivers, rather than installing shoulder belts and air bags so people can drive like idiots with impunity, put a spear sticking out of the steering wheel column that is inches from the chest. No more tailgating.

I've been arguing for years that the solution to head injuries is to eliminate the helmet. I'd leave the pads alone to help prevent broken bones. I don't think the players, public or front offices would allow the elimination of helmets. However, I like the idea of eliminating face masks.

Another idea to minimize injuries (that would not fly) would be to change the uniform to one that looks like the Michelin Man or the Pillsbury Doughboy.

 

[TheDeparted]

Also, if a 270lb man adds 20lb to his weight hypothetically, and force = mass x acceleration, surely his force is increased upon colliding with the other man

But wouldn't this also decrease his acceleration?

 

[TheDeparted]

A lot of you guys are unaware of or are downplaying/ignoring the classic positive feedback loop involving helmets in football.

→ Football players get head injuries
|...........................↓
| Football players get better equipment
|...........................↓
| Football players play more recklessly
|...........................↓
↑--------------------←


Helmets are great when they serve to defend against incidental injuries, but players are using them as weapons which is careless. The better their equipment, the more invincible they feel.

 

[St. Widge]

Somewhat correct, there are many instances where players dont see defenders and get blindsided with a huge hit... but in the NFL no player without a helmet will go high on another player going over the middle. hit them in the chest with your shoulder and they will go down just as quickly

The flaw in this entire argument is that there is no evidence that fewer pads gets you fewer injuries or that players will change the way they play because they don't have pads. You can't just say "Ruby has fewer injuries" and expect people to take that to be fact. You need science to backup this speculation and there hasn't been any given here. Maybe it exists, I don't know, but it hasn't been given here and until it has, I'll remain skeptical.

Anecdotally, the players are still going to hit the same way without pads because they have been doing it for years. The real solution seems to be teaching them proper tackling technique, not to get rid of pads.

 

[Sitch]

If the players train in pads and helmets their acceleration is the same as they have adjusted to the added mass, these guys are ultra quick as it is. The NASCAR comparison I think was rightly shut down quickly....there isnt a great deal of peer reviewed data on helmet/pads vs no helmets/pads but anecdotally and in the lab on isolated occasions they have shown there to be the potential for greater risk and the onfield backup of the ****** from Atlanta I think it is who keeps getting fined for using his head and suspended when a band aid solution doesn't necessarily get the right outcome.... I am going to trawl google scholar for a study now

 

[St. Widge]

By the way, all of this ignores the question of whether the game really needs to be safer. It's not like playing in the NFL is one of the world's most dangerous jobs. There are plenty of other jobs that are much more dangerous than playing in the NFL where you get paid a whole lot less. And, there isn't a huge movement to make those jobs safer.