Saints Sean Payton opens up about why he left the Saints (merged) (4 Viewers)

[Saint Jack]

So you are right, for the limited point, that It wasn't fixed for the purpose of increasing TV viewers.

It was fixed to fill a $4B stadium with fans who do not care about NFL football.

Still doesn’t make sense.
The stadium was getting filled by opposing fans before and after.

 

[sfidc3]

And the Saints still got three games this season.

You keep saying that like it's more than average....when in reality, there are only 6 teams that have less than 3........

Probably, as we are really an unknown commodity at this point, right where we should be marketing wise based on last year.....

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

For some, the lack of evidence that a conspiracy existed is simply evidence that the conspiracy was well executed.

Regarding the 2018 NFC championship game, the non-call was horrendous, and the NFL responded badly after the game by failing to quickly acknowledge that blatant pass interference was not called. The NFL is at all times public relations. But it isn't really crazy and stupid.

So we had a conspiracy to boost the popularity of the Rams in Los Angeles. But a conspiracy involves an agreement by two or more. Who gave the order? How was it given? To whom was it given? How many were involved? And for the sake of selling tickets in Los Angeles, would the league, its executives, and game officials really risk in the greatest scandal in sports history (a) immeasurably damaging the reputation of the NFL, the NFL's business model, and the market valuation of the 32 franchises; and (b) losing their job and reputation, and going to prison.

And if we assume for argument there was a league conspiracy for Los Angeles, then the league really wanted Los Angeles to win. But if that was the case, then why did the officials wait until 1:45 or so to play before helping the Rams? If the Saints defense does its job, the Saints still win. And why did they call only three penalties on the Saints the entire game and seven penalties on the Rams? And why did they allow the Patriots to easily win the Super Bowl? Losing in the conference championship doesn't sell tickets, but losing in the Super Bowl does?

I was at the game. I can remember thinking for the first 58 minutes how well officiated the game was. And there is a tendency by NFL officials to call fewer penalties in championship games and especially not to call a game-decisive penalty at the end of a championship game. Again, the non-call was horrendous because it was so blatant. But the Saints could have stopped the Rams in the last 1:41, could have scored in overtime, and could have stopped the Rams in overtime after the Brees interception.

 

[Derrick 63]

What’s interesting is if the NFL/Officials really want to send Payton a message, the Saints start getting the 50/50s and penalties decrease significantly…

I can't see that happening. If they were to do that it would just throw fuel on CSP's fire and open the NFL up to public and media scrutiny. For the same reason they don't want gambling to touch players for any reason is the same reason they wouldn't do this. Once you lose the integrity of your game it won't come back anytime soon. That is also the reason I laugh when someone suggests the NFL is rigged.

A more logical explanation would be that CSP was not the best at coaching up his players to avoid penalties and he is just paving a new road to future excuses. JMHO.

 

[wwepatriot]

You're proving his point. Saints fans will watch regardless of abuse. Rams fans will watch only if they are given championships.

Pretty much

 

[wwepatriot]

I can't see that happening. If they were to do that it would just throw fuel on CSP's fire and open the NFL up to public and media scrutiny. For the same reason they don't want gambling to touch players for any reason is the same reason they wouldn't do this. Once you lose the integrity of your game it won't come back anytime soon. That is also the reason I laugh when someone suggests the NFL is rigged.

A more logical explanation would be that CSP was not the best at coaching up his players to avoid penalties and he is just paving a new road to future excuses. JMHO.

It’s not fully fixed in a way where the result is 100% fool proof. But with sports betting becoming more and more popular, you got to think some of these people have families deep into it. But I believe also theirs too many coincidences that occur that can wake one up to the possibilities of fixed games, or least attempts to fix them. One example happened today when Titans close to 2 mins elected to kick the FG instead of going for it, made it a 1 pt game as opposed to Vegas odds of Saints -3. Worst one was Clemson beating Duke, when majority of bettors have that 1 bet, that’s when things go south real quick, especially being the last game of the week. But it’s not always about that side on why some games can be fixed, bigger part of it is how much influence some owners have on the game and how much of it they can control, like we saw with Stan Kroenke for that 3-4 year spurt once he went back to Los Angeles, theme with that franchise every time they move cities.

 

[LordPoopington]

Did everyone notice Bill Vinovich reffed Payton's 1st game in Denver?

 

[Bill]

Did everyone notice Bill Vinovich reffed Payton's 1st game in Denver?

I don't understand the rift between the Saints fans & Bill Vinovich. He was not the culprit of the NFC Championship game. That was Gary Cavaletto. Vinovich was not in a position to make or adjust the call by the side judge Cavaletto. And there was no option for a review at the time. Vinovich had no choice but to allow the play to continue as called by his fellow official.

 

[DoubleSaint]

I don't understand the rift between the Saints fans & Bill Vinovich. He was not the culprit of the NFC Championship game. That was Gary Cavaletto. Vinovich was not in a position to make or adjust the call by the side judge Cavaletto. And there was no option for a review at the time. Vinovich had no choice but to allow the play to continue as called by his fellow official.

Regardless it was still a deliberate middle finger to Sean Payton from the NFL in the most public way possible.

 

[Doug B]

Did everyone notice Bill Vinovich reffed Payton's 1st game in Denver?

Yep

Sean Payton gets ‘Ambushed’ by Bill Vinovich after surprise onside kick

Broncos head coach Sean Payton got "Ambushed" by referee Bill Vinovich after opening his tenure with a surprise onside kick:

sports.yahoo.com

 

[LordPoopington]

I don't understand the rift between the Saints fans & Bill Vinovich. He was not the culprit of the NFC Championship game. That was Gary Cavaletto. Vinovich was not in a position to make or adjust the call by the side judge Cavaletto. And there was no option for a review at the time. Vinovich had no choice but to allow the play to continue as called by his fellow official.

Oh, I can explain that one. My beef with him is after the game he hemmed and hawed about "I didn't see the play" when asked about it even though photographs show he had a clear view of the play. He wasn't the closest ref, but he most definitely had a clear view of what happened.

You are correct that Gary Cavaletto and the timid ref who looked like he wanted to throw a flag and let Cavaletoo overrule him were the closest to the play and the ones who bear the MOST responsibility.

But I think Vinovich is a coward and a liar based on his post-game presser. As a counterpoint, there was a baseball game (before they instituted replay) where Tigers pitcher Armando Galarraga was one out away from a perfect game. There's a close play at first base and Jim Joyce called the runner safe. Replays showed Joyce was wrong. At the post-game presser when asked about it Joyce basically said "It's my job to get that call right and I didn't. This should've been one of the best days of that young man's life and I ruined it and that's going to bother me for a long time." Joyce then went to the Tigers' locker room to apologize to Galarraga personally. That's how a man handles it when he makes a mistake.

If Vinovich said, "Sometimes refs miss calls just like kickers sometimes miss extra points or wide open receivers drop a pass" I'm not saying it would've made everything okay, but I think the anger would've been lessened somewhat. B/c yeah, even sometimes even Morten Andersen would miss an extra point when it was only 20 yards away. But there wasn't even an ounce of humility or accountability from those refs.

 

[Bill]

Oh, I can explain that one. My beef with him is after the game he hemmed and hawed about "I didn't see the play" when asked about it even though photographs show he had a clear view of the play. He wasn't the closest ref, but he most definitely had a clear view of what happened.

You are correct that Gary Cavaletto and the timid ref who looked like he wanted to throw a flag and let Cavaletoo overrule him were the closest to the play and the ones who bear the MOST responsibility.

But I think Vinovich is a coward and a liar based on his post-game presser. As a counterpoint, there was a baseball game (before they instituted replay) where Tigers pitcher Armando Galarraga was one out away from a perfect game. There's a close play at first base and Jim Joyce called the runner safe. Replays showed Joyce was wrong. At the post-game presser when asked about it Joyce basically said "It's my job to get that call right and I didn't. This should've been one of the best days of that young man's life and I ruined it and that's going to bother me for a long time." Joyce then went to the Tigers' locker room to apologize to Galarraga personally. That's how a man handles it when he makes a mistake.

If Vinovich said, "Sometimes refs miss calls just like kickers sometimes miss extra points or wide open receivers drop a pass" I'm not saying it would've made everything okay, but I think the anger would've been lessened somewhat. B/c yeah, even sometimes even Morten Andersen would miss an extra point when it was only 20 yards away. But there wasn't even an ounce of humility or accountability from those refs.

I have investigated the play thoroughly. Vinovich was behind Drew when he threw the football. Vinovich’s sight line to the intended receiver was the same as the ball in flight. He had absolutely no idea how close the ball was to the receiver at the time of the collision. Ironically Cavaletto had the exact same disadvantage. The ball was coming toward him on the same line as the receiver. Both Vinovich and Cavaletto was in the worst position to know how early the defender hit the receiver before the ball got there. There were two other officials who had the best angle to make the correct call (one in the end zone and one farther down the right sideline), but both of those officials were called off by Cavaletto after he yelled out “Bang, Bang!” Sadly they gave in to Cavaletto simply because he was closest to the collision and it was his call to make.

Those who still believe that Vinovich had a good (or better) angle to make the call simply didn’t do their homework. He was looking straight down the line of the pass directly behind Drew. Cavaletto was looking down the line of a pass coming directly at him. The only reason the two officials who had the better view didn’t challenge Cavaletto is because he was a senior official who had the rights to that call due to the area of the field he was In charge of at the time.

Yes, the call was wrong. Cavaletto thought he had made the right call and refused to back down. Vinovich really had no choice but to go with what Cavaletto was adamant about calling. Vinovich answered the reporters honestly and did what any other head referee would have done in the exact same circumstances.

And the accountability question is an issue for the league. Not the officials.

 

[SaintswonSBXLIV]

There was a thirty year period where Green Bay was known as the Siberia of the NFL.
Various players have said that was were careers went to die.

There was a thirty year period where Green Bay was known as the Siberia of the NFL.
Various players have said that was were careers went to die.

Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Kansas City are smaller markets, but held in high esteem by Park Avenue. Nothing about the GB swoon during the 70s and 80s changes that fact.

 

[LordPoopington]

I have investigated the play thoroughly. Vinovich was behind Drew when he threw the football. Vinovich’s sight line to the intended receiver was the same as the ball in flight. He had absolutely no idea how close the ball was to the receiver at the time of the collision. Ironically Cavaletto had the exact same disadvantage. The ball was coming toward him on the same line as the receiver. Both Vinovich and Cavaletto was in the worst position to know how early the defender hit the receiver before the ball got there. There were two other officials who had the best angle to make the correct call (one in the end zone and one farther down the right sideline), but both of those officials were called off by Cavaletto after he yelled out “Bang, Bang!” Sadly they gave in to Cavaletto simply because he was closest to the collision and it was his call to make.

Those who still believe that Vinovich had a good (or better) angle to make the call simply didn’t do their homework. He was looking straight down the line of the pass directly behind Drew. Cavaletto was looking down the line of a pass coming directly at him. The only reason the two officials who had the better view didn’t challenge Cavaletto is because he was a senior official who had the rights to that call due to the area of the field he was In charge of at the time.

Yes, the call was wrong. Cavaletto thought he had made the right call and refused to back down. Vinovich really had no choice but to go with what Cavaletto was adamant about calling. Vinovich answered the reporters honestly and did what any other head referee would have done in the exact same circumstances.

I don't think he had a better angle, but I saw a photo (I wish I knew where so I could pull it up) that showed him in relation to the play and he could see it. He wasn't the closest but he could see it.

 

[LordPoopington]

I have investigated the play thoroughly. Vinovich was behind Drew when he threw the football. Vinovich’s sight line to the intended receiver was the same as the ball in flight. He had absolutely no idea how close the ball was to the receiver at the time of the collision. Ironically Cavaletto had the exact same disadvantage. The ball was coming toward him on the same line as the receiver. Both Vinovich and Cavaletto was in the worst position to know how early the defender hit the receiver before the ball got there. There were two other officials who had the best angle to make the correct call (one in the end zone and one farther down the right sideline), but both of those officials were called off by Cavaletto after he yelled out “Bang, Bang!” Sadly they gave in to Cavaletto simply because he was closest to the collision and it was his call to make.

Those who still believe that Vinovich had a good (or better) angle to make the call simply didn’t do their homework. He was looking straight down the line of the pass directly behind Drew. Cavaletto was looking down the line of a pass coming directly at him. The only reason the two officials who had the better view didn’t challenge Cavaletto is because he was a senior official who had the rights to that call due to the area of the field he was In charge of at the time.

Yes, the call was wrong. Cavaletto thought he had made the right call and refused to back down. Vinovich really had no choice but to go with what Cavaletto was adamant about calling. Vinovich answered the reporters honestly and did what any other head referee would have done in the exact same circumstances.

And the accountability question is an issue for the league. Not the officials.

The one other thing I will add that's tangential to the point of Vinovich that I HATE about the NFL is...I know a guy who spent decades as a high school football ref. He says he's always thought the NFL going with all-star crews for playoff games is a terrible idea b/c a crew that's worked together will be less afraid about speaking up or potentially contradicting someone. They can tell when a crew member needs help with a call. All-star crews negate that.