Should Rattler be our starter in 2025? (merged) (15 Viewers)

[Winter]

To me, he's enough to spend another year on while everything else gets sorted out. We aren't in a good position to go get our next future QB. Rattler is serviceable while the cap, o-line and defense get sorted out. We fix the problems with, hopefully, the next best thing in coaching and either Rattler settles in and takes off with a legit team around him, or we are set up well to draft or trade for that QB that will take us to the promise land again. This year was full of disaster and to write off Rattler after this season is a bit pre-mature imo. Not saying he's the future, but if we are able to save a lot in the cap situation by offloading Carr, we got a guy that can take the snaps until its all figured out.

 

[DerrickB]

No

 

[platinumvinnyv]

Rattler has shown he has some arm talent, but honestly not much else, so no, I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving him the reins going into next season.

Granted, he didn’t get to play with much of a supporting cast, or even with a real head coach, but you can’t go into a season with that unproven of a quarterback.

This exactly, I like Rattler I think he has starting potential and I like that when he is the game he's trying to win the game and not manage it. With that said he needs a year or 2 to develop and actual talent around him in the receivers group. If you go rattler in a year or 2 we need a BIG Do it all Receiver as I think Rattler going need a WR who can bail him out some of those bad throws. He also need a coach whos going be all in on him to help hide some of his deficies in the start of his career.

 

[St. Widge]

Rattler may very well be the QB in 2026, but barring injury, it will not be next year. Also, while he has lots of potential, he still has a lot of growth that's needed before he is ready to be a starter.

This doesn't need to be a new thread every 3 days.

Rattler no doubt has a lot of growing to do. But I saw hope from him yesterday. He played a really good first half but fell apart late in the game when it looked like he was pressing and trying to make plays on his own. But, that first half was the best half of football he has played yet. I'm seeing growth from him in terms of getting rid of the ball and being better able to handle the blitz. He has a long way to go, but at least he is getting better every game now.

I doubt he beats out Carr next year, but he could make a big leap in the offseason and in camp that would make him able to compete with Carr. Frankly, if he can't compete with Carr next training camp, he's likely never going to be the guy.

 

[tyler735]

Decided to watch the game against the Raiders again this morning (I know lol). I wanted to go through all of Rattlers throws again to form a more detailed opinion on how he played.

1st drive

Utilized his legs for a big 25+ yard run. Had a beautiful 24 yard throw to Juwan Johnson perfectly placed over a LB, but was dropped. Would have had the Saints in the redzone and likely able to come away with points that drive. Even with the drop, they were in Field Goal range and a false start penalty took them out of range.

2nd drive

Well executed pass to Kendre Miller in the flat for about 15 yards. Double pass trick play with perfect execution to Foster Moreau for a 30 yard touchdown.

3rd drive

Holding penalty sets offense back on 1st play. 25 yard throw on 2nd and 18 to overcome the holding penalty. Another penalty (illegal shift) setting the Saints back. Rattler with a 40 yard touchdown pass to Juwan Johnson negated by a (very soft) holding penalty. Without the penalty the Saints likely challenge the spot as it looks like Juwan crossed the goal line before being touched. Penalty knocked the Saints out of field goal range yet again.

4th drive

A few nice short completions to move down the field. Followed by a 22 yard throw with pressure in his face to Kevin Austin to put the Saints in the redzone. Illegal formation penalty (again) forces the Saints back. Still came away with a field goal to end the drive going into half time.

5th drive (start of 2nd half)

Rattler completes pass for first down to Juwan Johnson despite missed block by our OL allowing free rusher. Next play hits Kevin Austin in the hands for what would have been a 12 yard catch into Raider territory, but ended up as a bad drop. 2 plays later another 12 yard pass was dropped, this time, by Juwan Johnson. The drops killed the drive and at the very least took us out of field goal range.

6th drive

First play was a 21 yard throw to MVS which was dropped by MVS. Rattler could have thrown a split second earlier, but also a good WR comes down with that catch. Bad throw by Rattler on his next throw ends the drive. 1st drive through 6 drives that any sort of blame could be placed on Rattler for not coming away with points.

7th drive

Missed block forces Rattler to rush pass for incompletion. Next play more missed blocks by OL, but Rattler evades the rush and throws 9 yard pass to CEH, but he drops it. Creating a 3rd and 10 instead of 3 and 1. Rattler sacked on the next play ending the drive. Jamal Williams missed his block creating the sack.

8th drive

Rattler with a 10 yard throw to Moreau after avoiding pressure, but it was dropped. Throw was a bit low, but very catchable. On 4th down, Rattler makes a play with his legs to pick up the 1st down. Rattler avoids the rush again and completes a 15 yard pass on the run to Cedrick Wilson, but a holding penalty wipes away the play and forces a 2nd and 16. Next play Rattler threw a pass off Cedrick Wilson’s hands which was deflected for an interception. High throw from Rattler ball placement could have been better.

9th drive

Rattler sacked on first play. Not enough urgency from Rattler to get rid of the ball. Next play ton of pressure nobody open, leading to quick throwaway from Rattler. Next throw contested catch attempt to Juwan Johnson that falls incomplete. Johnson rounds his route and half arses it out of his break. I fault Johnson on this one and not Rattler. Could have gotten us close to a first down on the play. Instead led to a punt.

10th drive

Screen for minimal gain. Short completion for another short gain. Rattler sacked. Missed block and pocket collapsed before anyone could get open. Led to punt.

11th drive

Short completion to start drive. Rattler makes play with his legs to pick up 1st down. Dropped pass to CEH. Pass was behind CEH could have been better throw by Rattler. Beautiful 19 yard throw to Pettis move the Saints into Raiders territory. Throw to MVS dropped as he was trying to secure the throw. Big throw to Juwan Johnson to pick up first down on 3rd and 13. Nice throw to Juwan Johnson to get us to the Raiders 4 yard line, but OPI by Johnson. Next play was an interception by Rattler. Tried to force a throw into tight coverage. Saints were down 15 with 50 seconds left.


By my count there were 9 passes that were dropped by receivers in this game. Thats including any pass that hit the intended receiver in the hands. Of those 9 passes I’d say 3 of them could have been thrown better by Rattler and would have been very difficult catches. In other words, at least 6 positive plays were negated by dropped passes from our players.

Now onto penalties. 7 penalties negated positive plays. 3 holding penalties. 1 of them negated a 40 yard (touchdown?) on what was a very soft holding call. Thought the other holding penalties were legit. Then we had 3 drives with either False Start, Illegal Shift, or Illegal Formation penalties. Another big play was negated by an OPI. Could easily argue that dumb penalties cost us 3-4 potential scoring drives with where we were on the field when the penalties occurred.

I thought Rattler’s first half was excellent. He battled through a ton of adversity with his teammates consistently letting him down and finished with just 2 incompletions (1 drop and 1 throwaway pass). Without the drop, he would have had around 200 yards passing and rushing in the first half alone. The 2nd half the miscues got worse from the team. Rattler played well still up until the 4th quarter when we were down multiple scores. His throws started to get a little more spotty and he was forcing some throws.

Overall, I thought Rattler’s was the least of our concerns on offense yesterday. He still is far from a finished product, but I thought he showed enough to keep his name in the running to be our QB of the future going into 2025. I don’t think we will be in position to add a QB in the draft that has more talent than Rattler and an open competition with Carr going into next offseason seems like the most likely scenario. Whether it’s Carr or Rattler next year we clearly need more reliable pass catching options.

 

[OldSaintFan]

Assuming we move on from Derek, is Rattler your guy next year? On Twitter, there appears to be mixed reviews of him.

I don't think so.

 

[football]

Why is everyone so down on Carr? I never understand this empty frustration directed at him. His numbers are very good. As of now Carr gives us the best chance to win. Even drafting a quarterback, Carr is still the best options.

 

[St. Widge]

Decided to watch the game against the Raiders again this morning (I know lol). I wanted to go through all of Rattlers throws again to form a more detailed opinion on how he played.

1st drive

Utilized his legs for a big 25+ yard run. Had a beautiful 24 yard throw to Juwan Johnson perfectly placed over a LB, but was dropped. Would have had the Saints in the redzone and likely able to come away with points that drive. Even with the drop, they were in Field Goal range and a false start penalty took them out of range.

2nd drive

Well executed pass to Kendre Miller in the flat for about 15 yards. Double pass trick play with perfect execution to Foster Moreau for a 30 yard touchdown.

3rd drive

Holding penalty sets offense back on 1st play. 25 yard throw on 2nd and 18 to overcome the holding penalty. Another penalty (illegal shift) setting the Saints back. Rattler with a 40 yard touchdown pass to Juwan Johnson negated by a (very soft) holding penalty. Without the penalty the Saints likely challenge the spot as it looks like Juwan crossed the goal line before being touched. Penalty knocked the Saints out of field goal range yet again.

4th drive

A few nice short completions to move down the field. Followed by a 22 yard throw with pressure in his face to Kevin Austin to put the Saints in the redzone. Illegal formation penalty (again) forces the Saints back. Still came away with a field goal to end the drive going into half time.

5th drive (start of 2nd half)

Rattler completes pass for first down to Juwan Johnson despite missed block by our OL allowing free rusher. Next play hits Kevin Austin in the hands for what would have been a 12 yard catch into Raider territory, but ended up as a bad drop. 2 plays later another 12 yard pass was dropped, this time, by Juwan Johnson. The drops killed the drive and at the very least took us out of field goal range.

6th drive

First play was a 21 yard throw to MVS which was dropped by MVS. Rattler could have thrown a split second earlier, but also a good WR comes down with that catch. Bad throw by Rattler on his next throw ends the drive. 1st drive through 6 drives that any sort of blame could be placed on Rattler for not coming away with points.

7th drive

Missed block forces Rattler to rush pass for incompletion. Next play more misses blocks by OL, but Rattler evades the rush and throws 9 yard pass to CEH, but he drops it. Creating a 3rd and 10 instead of 3 and 1. Rattler sacked on the next play ending the drive. Jamal Williams missed his block creating the sack.

8th drive

Rattler with a 10 yard throw to Moreau after avoiding pressure, but it was dropped. Throw was a bit low, but very catchable. On 4th down, Rattler makes a play with his legs to pick up the 1st down. Rattler avoids the rush again and completes a 15 yard pass on the run to Cedrick Wilson, but a holding penalty wipes away the play and forces a 2nd and 16. Next play Rattler threw a pass off Cedrick Wilson’s hands which was deflected for an interception. High throw from Rattler ball placement could have been better.

9th drive

Rattler sacked on first play. Not enough urgency from Rattler to get rid of the ball. Next play ton of pressure nobody open, leading to quick throwaway from Rattler. Next throw contested catch attempt to Juwan Johnson that falls incomplete. Johnson rounds his route and half arses it out of his break. I fault Johnson on this one and not Rattler. Could have gotten us close to a first down on the play. Instead led to a punt.

10th drive

Screen for minimal gain. Short completion for another short gain. Rattler sacked. Missed block and pocket collapsed before anyone could get open. Led to punt.

11th drive

Short completion to start drive. Rattler makes play with his legs to pick up 1st down. Dropped pass to CEH. Pass was behind CEH could have been better throw by Rattler. Beautiful 19 yard throw to Pettis move the Saints into Raiders territory. Throw to MVS dropped as he was trying to secure the throw. Big throw to Juwan Johnson to pick up first down on 3rd and 13. Nice throw to Juwan Johnson to get us to the Raiders 4 yard line, but OPI by Johnson. Next play was an interception by Rattler. Tried to force a throw into tight coverage. Saints were down 15 with 50 seconds left.


By my count there were 9 passes that were dropped by receivers in this game. Thats including any pass that hit the intended receiver in the hands. Of those 9 passes I’d say 3 of them could have been thrown better by Rattler and would have been very difficult catches. In other words, at least 6 positive plays were negated by dropped passes from our players.

Now onto penalties. 6 penalties negated positive plays. 2 holding penalties. 1 of them negated a 40 yard (touchdown?) on what was a very soft holding call. Thought the other holding penalty was legit. Then we had 3 drives with either False Start, Illegal Shift, or Illegal Formation penalties. Another big play was negated by an OPI. Could easily argue that dumb penalties cost us 3-4 potential scoring drives with where we were on the field when the penalties occurred.

I thought Rattler’s first half was excellent. He battled through a ton of adversity with his teammates consistently letting him down and finished with just 2 incompletions (1 drop and 1 throwaway pass). Without the drop, he would have had around 200 yards passing and rushing in the first half alone. The 2nd half the miscues got worse from the team. Rattler played well still up until the 4th quarter when we were down multiple scores. His throws started to get a little more spotty and he was forcing some throws.

Overall, I thought Rattler’s was the least of our concerns on offense yesterday. He still is far from a finished product, but I thought he showed enough to keep his name in the running to be our QB of the future going into 2025. I don’t think we will be in position to add a QB in the draft that has more talent than Rattler and an open competition with Carr going into next offseason seems like the most likely scenario. Whether it’s Carr or Rattler next year we clearly need more reliable pass catching options.

Nice breakdown. It matches what I thought I saw yesterday.

 

[Saint Greg]

I don't believe anyone who actually plays fantasy football considers Derek Carr a viable starter.

This isn’t a 10-12 team fantasy league.

 

[St. Widge]

Why is everyone so down on Carr? I never understand this empty frustration directed at him. His numbers are very good. As of now Carr gives us the best chance to win. Even drafting a quarterback, Carr is still the best options.

I don't know that it is so much being down on Carr although there are some people who don't like him and will refuse to give him any credit. But, the reality is at his age, Carr won't be around for long, he's only got two years left on his contract, and he gets paid a lot of money. The money he makes is about right for the level of QB he is, but we need to find the next guy sooner than later and while Carr is solid, he's not the kind of QB that will win you games on his own and he's not a franchise QB so you are always looking to upgrade from him. The hope is that you can find a young QB making less money for a few years to help get the cap under control and build the team around the young QB before you have to start paying that QB big money.

 

[Saint Greg]

We can in fact move on if we need to from Carr at the very least he could be a post June 1st cut

To do that we have to cut 60+ mil without touching his contract. The plan is to save 30 mil with a restructure.

 

[Mojomajik9]

Rattler has done enough to make you feel like he was a good investment. There’s real growth there and he looks better.

Problem is, because of the injuries and issues with coaching, we’re not getting a real clear picture of him. So drafting another QB is not out of the question if one falls or if the team really falls in love with one.

 

[SWJJ]

To do that we have to cut 60+ mil without touching his contract. The plan is to save 30 mil with a restructure.

I'm not a "cap guru" but wouldn't restructuring Carr's contract mean keeping him another year (or having more dead money after he is gone)?

If so I just say pay him to be the starter next year and then let him walk/retire.

Stop kicking the can, eat the bad contracts.

 

[silverbullet]

No. Rattler got hyped up because he has a big arm and kind of looks like a great value Patrick Mahomes. He may have some potential but I'm skeptical based on his past resume.

Carr should be paid to go away. I would rather not have him on the team at all. Just do whatever you can to get off his salary as soon as possible. Bite the bullet and take the hit. Carr is not it. Find out if Rattler is.

 

[football]

I don't know that it is so much being down on Carr although there are some people who don't like him and will refuse to give him any credit. But, the reality is at his age, Carr won't be around for long, he's only got two years left on his contract, and he gets paid a lot of money. The money he makes is about right for the level of QB he is, but we need to find the next guy sooner than later and while Carr is solid, he's not the kind of QB that will win you games on his own and he's not a franchise QB so you are always looking to upgrade from him. The hope is that you can find a young QB making less money for a few years to help get the cap under control and build the team around the young QB before you have to start paying that QB big money.

I agree. I just feel it strange that a man who hasn't play much gets a lot of the blame for no reason, even when he isn't on the field. This issue we having is a front office problem. Not a Carr problem. I do agree we need a new quarterback soon . If there is one that fall in our lap in the draft, do it. Carr is serviceable for now but smoother to go from him to the new one.