Straight Pride (2 Viewers)

[kcirdor]

As threads progress, your posts get less coherent and more straw manny.

No brah, we are in a thread about being offended over sheet that no one has to even pay attention to. We got "gay jokes" from a non gay person. If we go by what society tries to tell us, Only black people can make black jokes, so only gay people can make gay jokes right? Or can we finally just relax and let context reign? and stop being offended over every little thing? That's my point. Yall can try to twist it into some political bull sheet. Don't care.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

No brah, we are in a thread about being offended over shirt that no one has to even pay attention to. We got "gay jokes" from a non gay person. If we go by what society tries to tell us, Only black people can make black jokes, so only gay people can make gay jokes right? Or can we finally just relax and let context reign? and stop being offended over every little thing? That's my point. Yall can try to twist it into some political bull shirt. Don't care.

i got what you were saying in your first few posts and i think you got attacked by people who didn't quite see what you were getting at, but i think your defenses of your point got a bit muddy

logically, i understand the impulse for 'hey, can't we just acknowledge the great strides we've made in civil issues the last few decades'?
and there's even some merit to it
but there's' still a substantial difference between 'much better' and 'good enough' and complacency is a difficult impulse to deal with when political gain seems within grasp
---
then of course, there is always going to be the internal struggle between old guard warriors and new visionaries
old guard still puts a lot of stock in big public encounters - whether protests or parades or boycotts or the like
newer fighters will want to have a more digital, focused and entrepreneurial approach
and personally i think we make a mistake when we try to pick one vs the other - we still need both approaches

 

[crosswatt]

No brah, we are in a thread about being offended over shirt that no one has to even pay attention to. We got "gay jokes" from a non gay person. If we go by what society tries to tell us, Only black people can make black jokes, so only gay people can make gay jokes right? Or can we finally just relax and let context reign? and stop being offended over every little thing? That's my point. Yall can try to twist it into some political bull shirt. Don't care.

re: the joking thing.

Human interactions aren't neutral. There's always an exchange of power/energy/life/whatever you want to call it. The goal of all humor should be to give that energy back to the audience/friends group/disenfranchised person while uniting us all in at least a cursory shared experience dynamic.

1. Jokes that have a broad and innocuous scope that the entire group can laugh at are almost always okay, usually irregardless of who said them.

2. Stereotypical jokes about a specific ethnic or gender or otherwise easily identifiable homogeneous group are alright for people not of said group to say too, depending on the skill of the joke teller, and what intention he/she/they have.

3. Jokes that take power away from a specific person or group and give it directly to another are only alright in extremely rare circumstances, and most often only appropriate coming from someone within the group losing the power or an extremely gifted humorist with an acceptable track record of overall acceptance of others when not "performing".

If this seems excessive or you (globally speaking; not directed at OP) don't get it, then you really need to stick to category one jokes and avoid complaining about why you can't tell category two or three jokes when others can.

 

[Dago]

re: the joking thing.

Human interactions aren't neutral. There's always an exchange of power/energy/life/whatever you want to call it. The goal of all humor should be to give that energy back to the audience/friends group/disenfranchised person while uniting us all in at least a cursory shared experience dynamic.

1. Jokes that have a broad and innocuous scope that the entire group can laugh at are almost always okay, usually irregardless of who said them.

2. Stereotypical jokes about a specific ethnic or gender or otherwise easily identifiable homogeneous group are alright for people not of said group to say too, depending on the skill of the joke teller, and what intention he/she/they have.

3. Jokes that take power away from a specific person or group and give it directly to another are only alright in extremely rare circumstances, and most often only appropriate coming from someone within the group losing the power or an extremely gifted humorist with an acceptable track record of overall acceptance of others when not "performing".

If this seems excessive or you (globally speaking; not directed at OP) don't get it, then you really need to stick to category one jokes and avoid complaining about why you can't tell category two or three jokes when others can.

That seems very arbitrary

 

[Bleu Raeder]

No brah, we are in a thread about being offended over shirt that no one has to even pay attention to. We got "gay jokes" from a non gay person. If we go by what society tries to tell us, Only black people can make black jokes, so only gay people can make gay jokes right? Or can we finally just relax and let context reign? and stop being offended over every little thing? That's my point. Yall can try to twist it into some political bull shirt. Don't care.

No brah, because without offense at something, no changes can be made. If I am not offended by something (and there is a lot of stuff that does not offend me that might or does offend others) I cannot affect a positive change. If I am offended by something I am certainly not alone.

So we're essentially talking about something you're not offended by. What you are offended by is our offense to something you're not disturbed by.

Those of us who are offended by the group of people who propose to parade as ridicule want to affect change. You've made your point. Move on. Just telling me I shouldn't be offended is not going to change my mind. Tell me why I shouldn't be offended. Give me well-reasoned arguments. If you're not prepared to do that or just don't want to do it, move on.

 

[RazorOye]

That seems very arbitrary

then so, too, is the notion of 'context' - and, personally, I think context is pretty critical

 

[crosswatt]

That seems very arbitrary

Take your username. If said by a non-Italian or non-Spanish speaking person, it's not really alright, and could take some emotional energy from you. Intent and reputation matters. There are members here that could reference it, and be fine, because they've established that they aren't coming at it with poor intentions. Others would be subject to mod action immediately due to past indiscretions.

 

[RazorOye]

Take your username. If said by a non-Italian or non-Spanish speaking person, it's not really alright, and could take some emotional energy from you. Intent and reputation matters. There are members here that could reference it, and be fine, because they've established that they aren't coming at it with poor intentions. Others would be subject to mod action immediately due to past indiscretions.

we've seen the video on here before, why Coates explains the use of the n-word, and the analogy he makes illustrates - I think pretty clearly - why context is important, using the examples of his wife's use of 'birch' with her friends and his friend's use of "white trash cabin":

Ta-Nehisi Coates has an incredibly clear explanation for why white people shouldn’t use the n-word

He said that white people could learn something from not being able to use the word.

www.vox.com

Coates first pointed out that it is normal in our culture for some people or groups to use certain words that others can’t. For example, his wife calls him “honey”; it would not be acceptable, he said, for strange women to do the same. Similarly, his dad was known by his family back home as Billy — but it would be awkward for Coates to try to use that nickname for his father.

“That’s because the relationship between myself and my dad is not the same as the relationship between my dad and his mother and his sisters who he grew up with,” Coates said. “We understand that.”

The same concept applies to different groups and their words. “My wife, with her girl friend, will use the word ‘birch,’” Coates said. “I do not join in. You know what I’m saying? I don’t do that. I don’t do that. And perhaps more importantly, I don’t have a desire to do it.”

Coates pointed to another example — of a white friend who used to have a cabin in upstate New York that he called “the white trash cabin.” “I would never refer to that cabin” in that way, Coates said. “I would never tell him, ‘I’m coming to your white trash cabin.’”

 

[SystemShock]

No brah, we are in a thread about being offended over shirt that no one has to even pay attention to.

Right off the bat...

Don't care.

Sure you don't.

 

[mikaloyd]

Take your username. If said by a non-Italian or non-Spanish speaking person, it's not really alright, and could take some emotional energy from you. Intent and reputation matters. There are members here that could reference it, and be fine, because they've established that they aren't coming at it with poor intentions. Others would be subject to mod action immediately due to past indiscretions.

There's an Italian farmer around here who races P51 Mustangs

His first one was Mangia Pane (bread eater) a sort of insult meaning roughly the same as redneck or poor trash in Italian.

Second one was Strega. Dunno what Strega means but its probably something somrewhat awful, IIRC he sold strega to someone who renamed it to Mustang Sally

Strega and Mangia Pane


His third one was Dago Red, a salute to Italian red wine

Im not sure what that means but I am sure you guys would feel very strongly on one side or the other about what are decent names for aircraft and whether Italians should be allowed to openly parade or not

 

[coldseat]

actually for me the getting beat up by 3 closeted guys was the most believable part of his litany of oddities
plenty of closeted butch queens have been gay bashers
but of course for his anecdote to work, it would have to be their 'gayness' as the reason they were violent and not the closeted shame

Agreed. I know the life of a closeted gay man very well, spent many years in it myself. I never was violent or hateful towards gays, I more so looked upon them with pity because "they" weren't able to control a desire that I myself was able to keep under control. Of course I was just lying to myself and was never really able to control anything, it was fear that controlled me. But that fear of being discovered or found out and being associated with gays is a strong motivator to hang on tightly to masculine expectations and in some cases act out in rage against gays.

 

[SystemShock]

There's an Italian farmer around here who races P51 Mustangs

His first one was Mangia Pane (bread eater) a sort of insult meaning roughly the same as redneck or poor trash in Italian.

That doesn't sound right.

Second one was Strega. Dunno what Strega means but its probably something somrewhat awful, IIRC he sold strega to someone who renamed it to Mustang Sally

That's some sort of booze.

Im not sure what that means but I am sure you guys would feel very strongly on one side or the other about what are decent names for aircraft and whether Italians should be allowed to openly parade or not

???

 

[mikaloyd]

???

To put it a different way, I think maybe sometimes people get so used to arguing and fighting on the internet they forget how to not argue on the internet. Even if there is nothing to bicker about

 

[buzd]

That's some sort of booze.

Strega is a liqueur, usually drank as an after dinner drink. I love it, but it can be an acquired taste.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Strega is a liqueur, usually drank as an after dinner drink. I love it, but it can be an acquired taste.

that's the way i was with grappa
i loved it but could easily see why people wouldn't