The Electric Vehicle (EV) discussion thread (Merged) (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Jaguar's I-Pace has been delivering for a few months now - the reviews are strong.

The body style is hard to define - not quite the 4-door coupe lines that the Model S gives you. Almost more like a crossover . . . but also something somewhat unique, almost futuristic. The power and handling are said to be undeniable and apparently the car is magnificent to drive. Of course, with any new model it appears there are issues that Jaguar will have to resolve, including a clunky interface and some charging issues.

But in going over a few reviews, the one thing that is consistent is how great it is to drive the car. The acceleration, the cornering (aided by all sorts of technology), the audible experience, etc. - everyone loves to drive it. Even Consumer Reports described the driving experience as "beautiful."

If Jaguar can clean up the issues with the interface, and bring it to the kind of reliability they have on the rest of their line, it will no-doubt put a hurt on Tesla. And the luxury EV market is still just getting going.







https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/2019-jaguar-i-pace-first-drive-review/

 

[XLR8]

Sorry I had to post it

 

[staphory]

An electric car made in the UK?
No thanks.

 

[superchuck500]

An electric car made in the UK?
No thanks.

Does it help if it's mostly Indian owned?

 

[Cage1]

I know Jags had a reputation for being very unreliable. Has that changed in recent years?

 

[superchuck500]

I know Jags had a reputation for being very unreliable. Has that changed in recent years?

Yes. They have done well in JD Power for a good decade or longer - it seems that getting pulled into larger automaker umbrellas helped their quality. They were at or near the top in some dependability and satisfaction rankings but have slipped a bit. Still decent.

 

[Kegger]

I can't imagine this doing particularly well, but the more options in the EV market the better.

 

[superchuck500]

I can't imagine this doing particularly well, but the more options in the EV market the better.

Jaguar reported sales of 11,000 I Pace cars in Q1 and it’s just ramping up.

In comparison, Tesla reported Q1 sales of 12,100 of models S and X combined - the models most comparable to the I Pace.

New York Auto Show: Electric Jaguar I-PACE Is World Car Of The Year, But It Wasn't Easy

A panel of automotive journalists picked the battery powered Jaguar I-PACE as World Car of the Year, which was announced at the press preview for the New York International Auto Show. The show is open to the public April 19 to 28.

www.forbes.com

Tesla just reported an abysmal quarter with Model S and Model X sales falling off a cliff

Sales of the company's more expensive cars have slowed with the launch of the Model 3.

www.businessinsider.com

Here is the list of awards the I-Pace has racked up including European Car of the Year and COTY at the recent NY Auto Show.

• Arab Wheels "2018 EV of the Year" [26]
• What Car? 2018 Reader Award - "Most Anticipated Car of 2018" [27]
• Selected for AutoCar Awards "2018 Game Changer" [28]
• 2018 Auto Express "Car of the Year" and "Premium EV of the Year" [29]
• "2018 Car of the Year" by Sunday Times [30]
• 2019 "German Car of the Year"[31]
• T3 Technology Awards: "Best Car of 2018"[32]
• Robb Report "October 2018 Car of the Month"[33]
• Motor Authority "Best Car to Buy 2019" Finalist [34]
• "Swiss Car of the Year 2019" [35]
• Overall Winner - Irish Times "Top 100 Cars of 2019" [36]
• Overall "Car of the Year" and "Best Alternative Fuel Car" at the 2018 Scottish Car of the Year awards[37]
• 2019 "Car of the Year" by ExtremeTech [38]
• "Best Premium Electric Car" - Sunday Express [39]
• Winner - "European Car of the Year 2019" award[40]
• Finalist in Motor Trend "SUV of the Year"[41]
• China's "2019 Green Car of the Year"[42]
• "2019 Scottish Car of the Year"[43]
• Green Car Reports "Best Car to Buy 2019" Finalist [44]
• "Best Car of the Year 2018" by Pocket Lint[45]
• "Best Luxury Compact SUV 2019" by U.S. News & World Report [46]
• ALG's "2019 Residual Value Award" for Electric Category[47]
• Popular Science "Best of 2018 Innovations" - Grand Award Winner[48]
• Driving Electric's 2019 "Best Large Electric Car" [49]
• "Luxury Green Car of the Year" - LA's 14th Annual Green Car Awards [50]
• "18 Best Rides of 2018" - Chicago Tribune [51]
• Professional Driver magazine "2018 Car of the Year"[52]
• "Top 10 Car of the Year" - The National [53]
• Forbes "Best Car Designs of 2018"[54]
• Stuff Magazine "Car of the Year 2018"[55]
• Top Gear magazine "EV of the Year 2018"[56]
• "Norwegian Car of the Year 2019"[57]
• CleanTechnica "2019 Car of the Year" Finalist[58]
• GQ 2019 Car Awards: "Best Electric Car You'd Actually Drive"[59]
• WhichCar "Style Awards 2019" - Finalist [60]
• "2019 North American Utility Vehicle of the Year" Runner Up [61]
• MotorWeek "Best of the Year 2019"[62]
• "Best Executive UK Car of the Year 2019"[63]
• CarBuyer "Safest Cars to Buy 2019"[64]
• "Canada Utility Vehicle of the Year 2019"[65]
• Overall Winner - 2019 "World Car of the Year", "World Green Car of the Year", "World Car Design of the Year" [66][67]
• AutoWeek Magazine "2019 Quietest Cars on Sale" [68]
• "2019 UK Car of the Year - Overall Winner"[69]
• "Canada Green Utility Vehicle of the Year 2019"[70]
• Best EV - Business Motoring Awards 2019[71]
• AutoBest's "ECOBEST" Award 2018 [72]
• AutoTrader - Best New Cars for 2019[73]

 

[staphory]

Does it help if it's mostly Indian owned?

Nope.
I work on British aircraft, I can’t imagine their auto design being much better.

 

[The Moose]

An electric car made in the UK?
No thanks.

Come on man Lucas has not been involved in limey cars for a long time.

I am sure they have done away with the positive ground nonsense years ago.


On to the Tesla thing. They are gonna get clobbered by bigger car companies once they start to come into the marketplace.

They are on borrowed time. The auto industry knows a hell of a lot more about the auto industry than Tesla and none are run by an egomaniac that has to be in the press.

With that all said I really don't think the electric cars are the only answer.

They are filthy things. Cobalt for the batteries is mined by children in the Congo. MINED by KIDS! If you want to save the world start with them. If your electric car is being charged by a coal burning plant are you really saving the world?

Everyone let's not forget the auto industry was making great strides in mpg and being cleaner.

In fact Mazda has a great new engine that is super efficient and clean.

It is the holy Grail of gas engines. It fires from from squeeze like a diesel. It is about a clean burn.

They in fact are working on getting the thermal efficiency to that of a electric car charged on a natural gas plant

Mazda's 'Skyactiv-3' Engine Could Be As Clean As Some Electrics With 56% Thermal Efficiency

jalopnik-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[superchuck500]

Nope.
I work on British aircraft, I can’t imagine their auto design being much better.

In fairness . . .

 

[superchuck500]

With that all said I really don't think the electric cars are the only answer.

They are filthy things. Cobalt for the batteries is mined by children in the Congo. MINED by KIDS! If you want to save the world start with them. If your electric car is being charged by a coal burning plant are you really saving the world?

This is definitely part of the EV discussion. Cobalt sourcing is troubling. Battery disposal is another nasty business.

I think the carbon emissions comparisons have been done when it comes to total energy involved and the EVs still come out a little better on a per mile basis than gas power, even on coal-burning plants. And obviously it gets significantly better when you start talking about nuclear and renewable power.

It’s called “well to wheel” emissions - recognizing that you have to account for EV power creation. The government studies that have looked to compare them have concluded that even when you include the energy consumption involved in creating the battery, the total emissions that can be accounted to the EV is still meaningfully lower than with gasoline cars, on average, and as the share of total US power produced with gas and green plants grows every year - a trend that further reduces total emissions for the EV. Of course mpg gains on the gas side also have a positive trend.

I think the range remains a problem for many people. Daily driving is great but many people have access to only one car but do, from time to time, need to go more than 250 miles in a day. Even if it’s just a handful of times a year, it seems that the sort of interstate off-ramp refueling stations aren’t common at all - and recharge times can still be lengthy.

Charging An Electric Vehicle Is Far Cleaner Than Driving On Gasoline, Everywhere In America

New research shows just how much cleaner driving an electric vehicle is than driving on gasoline, regardless of where it charges: EVs average 80 miles per gallon emissions equivalent across the U.S. - and reach as high as 191 MPG in New York State.

www.forbes.com

You'll Need 286 Pounds of Coal to Fuel That Electric Road Trip

New Yorkers looking to escape the winter chill by driving to Daytona Beach, Florida, would use about 40 gallons of gasoline to traverse the 1,000 miles in a Chevrolet Impala.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[superchuck500]

 

[BooBirdSaint]

Western auto makers are marketing to the largest market on the planet, China. 25million cars are produced in China annually. How many are hybrids or electric? Less than 1% US and Euopean electric sales are but a drop in the ocean. Until you flip that economy then its really the law of diminishing returns. China and India must get on board or any carbon gains made in the West get washed out two or three times over.
We are killing ourselves and this planet by feeding that economy.

 

[The Moose]

What I absolutely love about that graph is they are talking about mpg in a 25k dollar car compared to what your 75k+ car would cost to drive from NY and it only has range to get to new Jersey.

Even if you did stop and charge it it would be faster to take a friggin train.

 

[The Moose]

This is definitely part of the EV discussion. Cobalt sourcing is troubling. Battery disposal is another nasty business.

I think the carbon emissions comparisons have been done when it comes to total energy involved and the EVs still come out a little better on a per mile basis than gas power, even on coal-burning plants. And obviously it gets significantly better when you start talking about nuclear and renewable power.

It’s called “well to wheel” emissions - recognizing that you have to account for EV power creation. The government studies that have looked to compare them have concluded that even when you include the energy consumption involved in creating the battery, the total emissions that can be accounted to the EV is still meaningfully lower than with gasoline cars, on average, and as the share of total US power produced with gas and green plants grows every year - a trend that further reduces total emissions for the EV. Of course mpg gains on the gas side also have a positive trend.

I think the range remains a problem for many people. Daily driving is great but many people have access to only one car but do, from time to time, need to go more than 250 miles in a day. Even if it’s just a handful of times a year, it seems that the sort of interstate off-ramp refueling stations aren’t common at all - and recharge times can still be lengthy.

Charging An Electric Vehicle Is Far Cleaner Than Driving On Gasoline, Everywhere In America

New research shows just how much cleaner driving an electric vehicle is than driving on gasoline, regardless of where it charges: EVs average 80 miles per gallon emissions equivalent across the U.S. - and reach as high as 191 MPG in New York State.

www.forbes.com

You'll Need 286 Pounds of Coal to Fuel That Electric Road Trip

New Yorkers looking to escape the winter chill by driving to Daytona Beach, Florida, would use about 40 gallons of gasoline to traverse the 1,000 miles in a Chevrolet Impala.

www.bloomberg.com

The key here is to get engines more thermaly efficient.

The link in the article I posted about Mazda skyactiv engines talks about where they have to get to be as efficient as an ev with the current grid and they are not really that far away.

The tech of that Mazda engine is something else. Next level stuff.

It runs crazy high compression like a diesel. 16 to 1 actually. The cylinder is then filled with a air fuel mix that is too lean to combust on it's own at that compression. Then at the very top of the stroke it injects in the correct amount of fuel for the combustion. Therefore it gets a far more power and a much cleaner burn than a regular combustion engine without the preignition or knocking you would get.

The combustion engine is not dead it is just the ev hype.