The entire NFL is on the verge of major change on offense (1 Viewer)

[Artifactual]

Watching the games the first 3 weeks of the season and it is amazing how fast the cream rises. Over the past couple of decades NFL defenses have become much faster and more complex. Between zone blitz schemes, games on the dline, crowding the line and making a QB guess on blitz vs drop and tweener LB/S and CB/S starting to take root it has become a game of making the QB hold the ball an extra second to allow defenders to get home. Defense had to evolve to stop the pass. The way it ended up working out was by defenses figuring out how to slow the pass by stopping the run with 6-7 man fronts. It's becoming increasingly rare to see offenses line up and just drive the defense off the ball, particularly early in games.

Offense is starting to evolve to defeat the modern NFL defense and it doesn't take a lot of watching other games to figure it out. Teams that can run the ball can throw the ball. Teams that can't run the ball can't hold up in pass protection. This is more than just the talent level of the offensive line. 7 of the top 8 running teams in the NFL are using a tremendous amount of motion, they are using constant misdirection and they are using speed. San Fransisco, Miami and the Chiefs are prime examples. The goal of the offense is to no longer run over the other team, it is to get them moving the opposite direction of players with speed to open up everything else on offense. Sure, they still run the ball between the tackles but instead of running a basic draw they might line up a speedy WR opposite a speedy RB next to the QB in the gun. Another speedy WR may motion to fake a jet sweep with one of the speedsters in the backfield flare out to the opposite flat and the RB gets a draw up the middle while the receivers all run routes. The motion and misdirection is designed to make space, pulling players a few yards one way or another to create space for speedy players. It's like having ghosts block for you. The end result of the play is still a pretty basic draw play. Scheming one extra long TD a game is the difference between the best offenses in the NFL and the worst. The defensive line may blow it up, they may make the tackles for 3-4 yard gains but it increases the odds one player on defense being out of position. Next, offenses can use the same formation, the same motion and pass the ball. They are moving the safeties a few steps here, a few steps there to create space for receivers. The play design is moving LB's or making them hesitate. One step can mean the difference between a typical play and a long TD in the NFL. With so much speed on the offensive side of the ball, it just takes one wrong step by a safety or LB to turn a play into a race with a track star.

Once defenses get frustrated and can't stop the run the idea is no different than it was 20 years ago. Bring an extra person down into the box to help. Well, once that happens then it creates more space in the passing game. The best teams are scheming a couple really big plays a game more than the other team. Everyone looks at Tua and the Dolphins last week with this explosive offense. What people fail to see is that they ran the ball for 350 yards.

As the game progresses, defensive linemen get tired, they get frustrated and they are suddenly a step slower.

Watching these new offenses like the Eagles, Dolphins, Chiefs and Niners is like watching a dam stop flood water that never stops rising. That dam may hold it back for a time but the water is going to continuously look for a weak spot, erode away at the dam until the whole thing collapses. These teams can start slow and then suddenly throw a 21 point quarter up. The best part, is they are keeping their QB clean by helping their offensive line and by moving the chains, keeping their defense fresh.

We have started using these concepts with Taysom some so I know the coaches are capable. When AK comes back I expect it to be even more effective. We have the speed with Olave, Shaheed and AK. I would really like to see us start using these concepts all the time because it has become quite obvious we can not run the ball without them and it has become quite obvious we can not keep the defensive line off of the QB. Making a defensive end hesitate by thinking has the exact same effect as chipping them with an extra blocker, except now the extra blocker is running routes. We have to use every eligible receiver on every part of the field and start making defensive ends worry about contain as much as they are worried about eating the QB.

It's a copycat league, time to start copying.

Very nice write up and on point bclemms. After reading it I mused how impressive for a 15 year old to put ones thoughts into words in such a concise and eloquent way with pinpoint accuracy and knowledge of the subject.

What's most impressive is that you've been posting in similar manner on this board for at least 3 years before you were born. lol

 

[jahsoul357]

Excellent observation.

My son's middle school team lost last night. The team that beat them was undersized and less athletic, but used a lot of motion and misdirection. Another dad and I were talking about how we had seen more of that in College games this season and how well it's worked for the offenses using it. I haven't seen enough of the Eagles, Dolphins, Chiefs and Niners to identify that trend in the pros, but wholly agree that we should copycat it and implement it sooner rather than later.

That's a core of what they do. I joke a lot about it but it but when you really look at the 49ers and Chiefs play, you can see how easy scheming has made it for Purdy and Mahomes. Coupled with some of the best skill players in the game, easy work. The 49ers went to the Super Bowl by beating the Packers by more than 2 scores with Jimmy G throwing the ball 8 times or something crazy like that..lol

Spot on op. Spot on. SP's system was all fine and good while we had Drew. Defenses knew what the Saints were going to do but they still couldn't stop it because we had the most accurate passer of a football in the history of mankind. On top of a first ballot HoF QB we had great interior O line play and great weapons for the system. We were able to run the ball if SP felt like it but he didn't always commit to the run. And with Drew Brees at QB, who can blame him?

The minute Drew retired our offensive approach needed to change. The things that worked with an all time great QB weren't going to work with just about any other QB. And when SP left it was time to completely overhaul the offense. It was like a restaurant losing it's founder and head chef. So the Sous-chef was handed the recipe book and was expected to keep everything going.

Honestly, the offensive approach did begin to change after Drew retired. It was just coupled with having to implement a new offense with one of the worst WR rooms in the league, worst RB rooms in the league, never ending O-line injuries, and 4 different QBs. Pete Carmichael isn't running a Sean Payton offense because Sean Payton offense was predicated on who was under center. Pete Carmichael is building an offense based on the vision that Dennis Allen has set for it.

Think about it like this; in 2021, we beat the Bucs in our first matchup 36-27. With Sean Payton out, Dennis Allen acting head coach and Pete Carmichael calling plays, we win 9-0. That right there should have given us insight into the future.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Didn't we have a training camp in forum kerfuffle over reintroducing motion to the offense?

Maybe I'm tripping but I ain't seen nuffin different so far this season

 

[Nolan]

There have been plays where Carr held the ball too long for whatever reason. He's also been stepping up in the pocket instead of running away from pressure.

But the main reason for the sacks, QB hits, and hurries looks to me like completely blown blocking asignments. WAY too many LBs and DLs getting straight to Carr clean. With literally nobody touching them.

Easy to blame coaching And playcalling, and the coaching does deserve it for sure... but linemen getting beat this bad consistently??? Some of thats gotta be on the players themselves. Im not sure how much better prime drew would be doing with the amount of pressure Carr is seeing. Maybe he'd do better setting presnap protections? IDK.

I dont really see the vanilla playcalling everybody keeps ranting about. What I see is defenses all but shutting down whatever play is called by tremendously whipping our OL. Hopefully we find an answer.

It's not about vanilla playcalling. I think Carr holding the ball too long is on coaching. It's not like we signed Peyton Manning in free agency. Carr can and should take to coaching. But we're seeing the same thing with Jameis too. Instead of taking what's free and easy, they're looking at deep routes instead of just focusing on moving the chains.

I understand there are plays where our line has just straight up been abused, and that absolutely is an execution thing. But when you know your offensive line is struggling, you have to help them. Whether that's additional protection, the quarterback making quick decisions on timing routes, whatever. The coach in charge of our offense needs to step in and adapt to what's happening in the game.

I made a point in the Carolina game - of course, as usual for this season, Carr was getting pressured. It was our 2 minute drive. We had Prentice, our fullback in for our 2 minute drill to close the second half. Great, right? Extra blocker is much needed, right? 2 plays in a row, our fullback released instead of blocking, and Carr took sacks on both of those plays back to back. Why on earth are we inserting our fullback for reasons other than blocking, especially when we're having a hard time protecting him as is? Silly stuff like that is just a pure reflection on coaching, there's no other way to put it. I don't think Prentice is going rogue and releasing on his own. He knows very well that he's a blocker.

 

[PBsWhodat]

Watching the games the first 3 weeks of the season and it is amazing how fast the cream rises. Over the past couple of decades NFL defenses have become much faster and more complex. Between zone blitz schemes, games on the dline, crowding the line and making a QB guess on blitz vs drop and tweener LB/S and CB/S starting to take root it has become a game of making the QB hold the ball an extra second to allow defenders to get home. Defense had to evolve to stop the pass. The way it ended up working out was by defenses figuring out how to slow the pass by stopping the run with 6-7 man fronts. It's becoming increasingly rare to see offenses line up and just drive the defense off the ball, particularly early in games.

Offense is starting to evolve to defeat the modern NFL defense and it doesn't take a lot of watching other games to figure it out. Teams that can run the ball can throw the ball. Teams that can't run the ball can't hold up in pass protection. This is more than just the talent level of the offensive line. 7 of the top 8 running teams in the NFL are using a tremendous amount of motion, they are using constant misdirection and they are using speed. San Fransisco, Miami and the Chiefs are prime examples. The goal of the offense is to no longer run over the other team, it is to get them moving the opposite direction of players with speed to open up everything else on offense. Sure, they still run the ball between the tackles but instead of running a basic draw they might line up a speedy WR opposite a speedy RB next to the QB in the gun. Another speedy WR may motion to fake a jet sweep with one of the speedsters in the backfield flare out to the opposite flat and the RB gets a draw up the middle while the receivers all run routes. The motion and misdirection is designed to make space, pulling players a few yards one way or another to create space for speedy players. It's like having ghosts block for you. The end result of the play is still a pretty basic draw play. Scheming one extra long TD a game is the difference between the best offenses in the NFL and the worst. The defensive line may blow it up, they may make the tackles for 3-4 yard gains but it increases the odds one player on defense being out of position. Next, offenses can use the same formation, the same motion and pass the ball. They are moving the safeties a few steps here, a few steps there to create space for receivers. The play design is moving LB's or making them hesitate. One step can mean the difference between a typical play and a long TD in the NFL. With so much speed on the offensive side of the ball, it just takes one wrong step by a safety or LB to turn a play into a race with a track star.

Once defenses get frustrated and can't stop the run the idea is no different than it was 20 years ago. Bring an extra person down into the box to help. Well, once that happens then it creates more space in the passing game. The best teams are scheming a couple really big plays a game more than the other team. Everyone looks at Tua and the Dolphins last week with this explosive offense. What people fail to see is that they ran the ball for 350 yards.

As the game progresses, defensive linemen get tired, they get frustrated and they are suddenly a step slower.

Watching these new offenses like the Eagles, Dolphins, Chiefs and Niners is like watching a dam stop flood water that never stops rising. That dam may hold it back for a time but the water is going to continuously look for a weak spot, erode away at the dam until the whole thing collapses. These teams can start slow and then suddenly throw a 21 point quarter up. The best part, is they are keeping their QB clean by helping their offensive line and by moving the chains, keeping their defense fresh.

We have started using these concepts with Taysom some so I know the coaches are capable. When AK comes back I expect it to be even more effective. We have the speed with Olave, Shaheed and AK. I would really like to see us start using these concepts all the time because it has become quite obvious we can not run the ball without them and it has become quite obvious we can not keep the defensive line off of the QB. Making a defensive end hesitate by thinking has the exact same effect as chipping them with an extra blocker, except now the extra blocker is running routes. We have to use every eligible receiver on every part of the field and start making defensive ends worry about contain as much as they are worried about eating the QB.

It's a copycat league, time to start copying.

As long as Pete calling plays we’ll never have an explosive dynamic offense. We’ll be bottom of the league fighting for a playoff spot because of our defense. Sucks because we are wasting years of our top skill players. We need a younger greater offensive mind. Not Pete running a 15 year old offense.

 

[LiterOCola]

Spot on op. Spot on. SP's system was all fine and good while we had Drew. Defenses knew what the Saints were going to do but they still couldn't stop it because we had the most accurate passer of a football in the history of mankind. On top of a first ballot HoF QB we had great interior O line play and great weapons for the system. We were able to run the ball if SP felt like it but he didn't always commit to the run. And with Drew Brees at QB, who can blame him?

The minute Drew retired our offensive approach needed to change. The things that worked with an all time great QB weren't going to work with just about any other QB. And when SP left it was time to completely overhaul the offense. It was like a restaurant losing it's founder and head chef. So the Sous-chef was handed the recipe book and was expected to keep everything going.

I don't think it's about running Sean's system without Drew, it's about still running Sean's system 15 years later.

It's stale. It doesn't have anything that defenses haven't game-planned for a thousand times. There's no innovation happening on the offensive side of the Saints.

 

[BreesusSaves]

I said it in preseason threads when the discussion was about TQS...

No one is keeping WRs for blocking. This isn't the year 2000. Offense is the name of the game now, offense wins championships.

The Chiefs have been to five consecutive AFC Championships and won two Super Bowls. Their defense in this run has never been elite.

The Brock Purdy 49ers averaged 32.6 points per game last season including the playoffs, this season they're averaging 30 points per game. The 49ers are considered an elite defensive team and even they have an offense designed to light up the scoreboard.

The Saints defense is on an 11 game streak of holding opponents to 20 or less points. The Saints are 6-5 in this run.

So I thought hey, I wonder what SanFran looks like with their last 11 games where they held their opponent to 20 or less points? 11-0. Undefeated. So I looked at their entire 2022 season. They held their opponents to 20 or less points 14 times, and finished with a 12-2 record.

The Saints are being run on a dinosaur concept and are going to get eaten alive by the elite offensive teams in the league.

 

[Rouxble]

I did not know these stats existed but it certainly confirms what i am seeing.

Here's what the Saints have done so far for comparison.



A few things stick out:

* When we use motion, we run the ball two out of three times. We need to get more balanced there.
* We are likely checking down a lot off play action due to a high success rate but low yards/dropback. Only one sack on a PA drop back.
* Motion is feast or famine for us when dropping back to pass. Eleven attempts generated less than 5 yards, the other three plays were 21-yard gain, 45-yard gain, and a 7-yard sack.

 

[PBsWhodat]

I said it in preseason threads when the discussion was about TQS...

No one is keeping WRs for blocking. This isn't the year 2000. Offense is the name of the game now, offense wins championships.

The Chiefs have been to five consecutive AFC Championships and won two Super Bowls. Their defense in this run has never been elite.

The Brock Purdy 49ers averaged 32.6 points per game last season including the playoffs, this season they're averaging 30 points per game. The 49ers are considered an elite defensive team and even they have an offense designed to light up the scoreboard.

The Saints defense is on an 11 game streak of holding opponents to 20 or less points. The Saints are 6-5 in this run.

So I thought hey, I wonder what SanFran looks like with their last 11 games where they held their opponent to 20 or less points? 11-0. Undefeated. So I looked at their entire 2022 season. They held their opponents to 20 or less points 14 times, and finished with a 12-2 record.

The Saints are being run on a dinosaur concept and are going to get eaten alive by the elite offensive teams in the league.

This people don’t realize how long ago our offense originated. 15 years! It’s stale you don’t think of fans can call our plays before the snap, NFL players and coaches can’t see it.

I’m will to bet any saints fan can pick one of our drives and call every since play.

 

[St. Geezy]

This people don’t realize how long ago our offense originated. 15 years! It’s stale you don’t think of fans can call our plays before the snap, NFL players and coaches can’t see it.

I’m will to bet any saints fan can pick one of our drives and call every since play.

Oh it's happened many times between my buddies and I, like before the team even takes the field after a punt.

The offense is stale and predictable, and I am sure many of the times our offense sputters it's because these sophisticated coordinators and players on the field know what's coming.

We are the epitome of BASIC.

It's to the point where I wonder if we aren't more complex because PC himself isn't capable of devising and understanding more complexities. He may very well not be the football brainiac we have been led to believe he is.

I really wish we had hired Doug Pederson. He was the guy I wanted for this very reason. Not often a recent SB winning HC with an innovative offense comes available. We dropped the ball there.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Watching the games the first 3 weeks of the season and it is amazing how fast the cream rises. Over the past couple of decades NFL defenses have become much faster and more complex. Between zone blitz schemes, games on the dline, crowding the line and making a QB guess on blitz vs drop and tweener LB/S and CB/S starting to take root it has become a game of making the QB hold the ball an extra second to allow defenders to get home. Defense had to evolve to stop the pass. The way it ended up working out was by defenses figuring out how to slow the pass by stopping the run with 6-7 man fronts. It's becoming increasingly rare to see offenses line up and just drive the defense off the ball, particularly early in games.

Offense is starting to evolve to defeat the modern NFL defense and it doesn't take a lot of watching other games to figure it out. Teams that can run the ball can throw the ball. Teams that can't run the ball can't hold up in pass protection. This is more than just the talent level of the offensive line. 7 of the top 8 running teams in the NFL are using a tremendous amount of motion, they are using constant misdirection and they are using speed. San Fransisco, Miami and the Chiefs are prime examples. The goal of the offense is to no longer run over the other team, it is to get them moving the opposite direction of players with speed to open up everything else on offense. Sure, they still run the ball between the tackles but instead of running a basic draw they might line up a speedy WR opposite a speedy RB next to the QB in the gun. Another speedy WR may motion to fake a jet sweep with one of the speedsters in the backfield flare out to the opposite flat and the RB gets a draw up the middle while the receivers all run routes. The motion and misdirection is designed to make space, pulling players a few yards one way or another to create space for speedy players. It's like having ghosts block for you. The end result of the play is still a pretty basic draw play. Scheming one extra long TD a game is the difference between the best offenses in the NFL and the worst. The defensive line may blow it up, they may make the tackles for 3-4 yard gains but it increases the odds one player on defense being out of position. Next, offenses can use the same formation, the same motion and pass the ball. They are moving the safeties a few steps here, a few steps there to create space for receivers. The play design is moving LB's or making them hesitate. One step can mean the difference between a typical play and a long TD in the NFL. With so much speed on the offensive side of the ball, it just takes one wrong step by a safety or LB to turn a play into a race with a track star.

Once defenses get frustrated and can't stop the run the idea is no different than it was 20 years ago. Bring an extra person down into the box to help. Well, once that happens then it creates more space in the passing game. The best teams are scheming a couple really big plays a game more than the other team. Everyone looks at Tua and the Dolphins last week with this explosive offense. What people fail to see is that they ran the ball for 350 yards.

As the game progresses, defensive linemen get tired, they get frustrated and they are suddenly a step slower.

Watching these new offenses like the Eagles, Dolphins, Chiefs and Niners is like watching a dam stop flood water that never stops rising. That dam may hold it back for a time but the water is going to continuously look for a weak spot, erode away at the dam until the whole thing collapses. These teams can start slow and then suddenly throw a 21 point quarter up. The best part, is they are keeping their QB clean by helping their offensive line and by moving the chains, keeping their defense fresh.

We have started using these concepts with Taysom some so I know the coaches are capable. When AK comes back I expect it to be even more effective. We have the speed with Olave, Shaheed and AK. I would really like to see us start using these concepts all the time because it has become quite obvious we can not run the ball without them and it has become quite obvious we can not keep the defensive line off of the QB. Making a defensive end hesitate by thinking has the exact same effect as chipping them with an extra blocker, except now the extra blocker is running routes. We have to use every eligible receiver on every part of the field and start making defensive ends worry about contain as much as they are worried about eating the QB.

It's a copycat league, time to start copying.

Hell of a post Clemms. Could you argue this would be a byproduct of having more capable receivers been drafted, and fewer elite QB's than we had in the Brees/Brady era so you have to scheme things up a bit more, vs the QB just going out and winning mentally every snap?

 

[Deuuuuce]

I would like to see Olave and Sheed in motion more and used more creatively. I dont know the data on this, but scoring touchdowns on explosive plays seems a hell of a lot easier than methodically driving and getting in the redzone where the field shrinks. This team seems to stink at getting players in the open field.

I’m really interested to see what our offense looks like with Kamara. If it’s still vanilla and a struggle every down, some changes need to be made because like the OP points out, The NFL is changing and dropping back and just hoping your receiver wins doesn’t work consistently anymore.

 

[jahsoul357]

Didn't we have a training camp in forum kerfuffle over reintroducing motion to the offense?

Maybe I'm tripping but I ain't seen nuffin different so far this season

People started tripping when I brought up who removed motion...lol

 

[Saintaholik]

Watching the games the first 3 weeks of the season and it is amazing how fast the cream rises. Over the past couple of decades NFL defenses have become much faster and more complex. Between zone blitz schemes, games on the dline, crowding the line and making a QB guess on blitz vs drop and tweener LB/S and CB/S starting to take root it has become a game of making the QB hold the ball an extra second to allow defenders to get home. Defense had to evolve to stop the pass. The way it ended up working out was by defenses figuring out how to slow the pass by stopping the run with 6-7 man fronts. It's becoming increasingly rare to see offenses line up and just drive the defense off the ball, particularly early in games.

Offense is starting to evolve to defeat the modern NFL defense and it doesn't take a lot of watching other games to figure it out. Teams that can run the ball can throw the ball. Teams that can't run the ball can't hold up in pass protection. This is more than just the talent level of the offensive line. 7 of the top 8 running teams in the NFL are using a tremendous amount of motion, they are using constant misdirection and they are using speed. San Fransisco, Miami and the Chiefs are prime examples. The goal of the offense is to no longer run over the other team, it is to get them moving the opposite direction of players with speed to open up everything else on offense. Sure, they still run the ball between the tackles but instead of running a basic draw they might line up a speedy WR opposite a speedy RB next to the QB in the gun. Another speedy WR may motion to fake a jet sweep with one of the speedsters in the backfield flare out to the opposite flat and the RB gets a draw up the middle while the receivers all run routes. The motion and misdirection is designed to make space, pulling players a few yards one way or another to create space for speedy players. It's like having ghosts block for you. The end result of the play is still a pretty basic draw play. Scheming one extra long TD a game is the difference between the best offenses in the NFL and the worst. The defensive line may blow it up, they may make the tackles for 3-4 yard gains but it increases the odds one player on defense being out of position. Next, offenses can use the same formation, the same motion and pass the ball. They are moving the safeties a few steps here, a few steps there to create space for receivers. The play design is moving LB's or making them hesitate. One step can mean the difference between a typical play and a long TD in the NFL. With so much speed on the offensive side of the ball, it just takes one wrong step by a safety or LB to turn a play into a race with a track star.

Once defenses get frustrated and can't stop the run the idea is no different than it was 20 years ago. Bring an extra person down into the box to help. Well, once that happens then it creates more space in the passing game. The best teams are scheming a couple really big plays a game more than the other team. Everyone looks at Tua and the Dolphins last week with this explosive offense. What people fail to see is that they ran the ball for 350 yards.

As the game progresses, defensive linemen get tired, they get frustrated and they are suddenly a step slower.

Watching these new offenses like the Eagles, Dolphins, Chiefs and Niners is like watching a dam stop flood water that never stops rising. That dam may hold it back for a time but the water is going to continuously look for a weak spot, erode away at the dam until the whole thing collapses. These teams can start slow and then suddenly throw a 21 point quarter up. The best part, is they are keeping their QB clean by helping their offensive line and by moving the chains, keeping their defense fresh.

We have started using these concepts with Taysom some so I know the coaches are capable. When AK comes back I expect it to be even more effective. We have the speed with Olave, Shaheed and AK. I would really like to see us start using these concepts all the time because it has become quite obvious we can not run the ball without them and it has become quite obvious we can not keep the defensive line off of the QB. Making a defensive end hesitate by thinking has the exact same effect as chipping them with an extra blocker, except now the extra blocker is running routes. We have to use every eligible receiver on every part of the field and start making defensive ends worry about contain as much as they are worried about eating the QB.

It's a copycat league, time to start copying.

Couldn't of said it better myself

Really good breakdown, once every ten years there's an offense that comes around and changes the league.

The Dolphins are def becoming that team. Although like you say there are other teams running the same concepts as well and having success.

We have the personal, but our offensive coordinator is too incompetent.

Loyalty is the only reason he's still here. If he doesn't start adapting to the league he won't be here much longer.

I look for Ronald Curry to take over. Whether thats this year or next. I think we're looking at the last days of Pete Carmichael being the Saints OC.

He'll be in Denver next year with Sean

 

[St. Geezy]

Didn't we have a training camp in forum kerfuffle over reintroducing motion to the offense?

Maybe I'm tripping but I ain't seen nuffin different so far this season

Not tripping at all. This was definitely apart of the supposed off-season changes, but you're right, I am not seeing some grand reintroduction of this either.

Sneaky Pete must be saving it for later? lol