The entire NFL is on the verge of major change on offense (2 Viewers)

[bclemms]

Hell of a post Clemms. Could you argue this would be a byproduct of having more capable receivers been drafted, and fewer elite QB's than we had in the Brees/Brady era so you have to scheme things up a bit more, vs the QB just going out and winning mentally every snap?

I can absolutely argue this. Manning, Brees snd Brady were just playing a different game than everyone else. That level of understanding is extremely rare. We had three of them doing it simultaneously in the league.

I think QB is becoming more like the college game and less important. The new style of offense allows them to be more like a point guard on most plays, then when things are wide open they hit the big plays. Jalen Mills and Tua are rarely throwing into tight windows. Why would you if you dont have to?

Then you have guys like Purdy and Mahomes running offenses that are more hybrid version of the Dolphins.

The decision process is easier, the time to throw is longer and the separation is bigger.

The only downside to this offensive style is more opportunity for negative plays due to horizontal play designs but it is more than offset because of what it open up vertically. I do think elite defenses can still shut these offenses down and think the hybrid versions of what the Dolphins are doing will win in the end.

 

[Rexman100]

Miami has elite playmakers with a coach that has gone well outside the box with formations and playcalling. It also helps they threw up 70 on a bad team that quit in week 3. I think they will come back down to earth some but they are stretching every inch of the field, running massive amounts of misdirection and have the most elite collection of speed in the NFL. It’s as simple as off balance defenders trying to tackle speed in space.

Tua is elite when he has time, below average when he does not. They are putting him in the best possible position to succeed.

Yea i was noticing Miami in week 2. Week 3, just proves it. For the first time ive ever said this, im glad its a copy cat league. It used to be us that were copied, now we need to copy Miami. Even their run plays between the center and left guard is unique.

 

[Rouxble]

Didn't we have a training camp in forum kerfuffle over reintroducing motion to the offense?

Maybe I'm tripping but I ain't seen nuffin different so far this season

I remember that, I think Kamara made a comment that the offense was going to use motion now and that was attributed to adding Carr to the offense.

What has happened so far? In the passing game, the Saints have the lowest rate of using motion (12.0%) while being middle of the pack in net yards/attempt (5.7 yds/DB).

That said, talent is still a need, and motion isn't a cure all. The Falcons rank 4th for motion usage when passing, but are the 4th worst team in net yards/attempt (4.5 yds/DB). The Giants are another team--9th in motion usage, 6th worst team in net yards/attempt (4.6 yds/DB).

 

[bclemms]

I remember that, I think Kamara made a comment that the offense was going to use motion now and that was attributed to adding Carr to the offense.

What has happened so far? In the passing game, the Saints have the lowest rate of using motion (12.0%) while being middle of the pack in net yards/attempt (5.7 yds/DB).

That said, talent is still a need, and motion isn't a cure all. The Falcons rank 4th for motion usage when passing, but are the 4th worst team in net yards/attempt (4.5 yds/DB). The Giants are another team--9th in motion usage, 6th worst team in net yards/attempt (4.6 yds/DB).

100% agree, you have to have the personnel to pull it off. The Giants are completely void of talent. I'm honestly not sure there is a single player on the Giants outside of Waller that would start for the Saints. They are terrible.

The Falcons have a lot of the personnel in place but they are working with a young QB starting his first few games and still lack the receivers needed. Despite that, they put up more points against Carolina and Green Bay than we did.

 

[B4YOU]

Here is what Miami is doing. Hill and Waddle coming off motion is providing such a speed advantage that most teams can’t react. If teams play LBs deep zone, you punish with the run or hot routes. The Saints have the speed with Olave and Rasheed and QBs with good deep balls to run this.

The NFL is a game of advantages. Motion can help read the D and give WR a free release with a speed advantage. It stretches the D and forces off-coverage. Motion WRs get to their spot faster which can shorten the time QBs hold the ball (Saints QBs have a major problem locking in and holding the ball).

I’ve been asking for Taysom motion and in the backfield on shotgun because it’s an advantage. He can block, chip, motion handoff to RPO, motion direct snap, draw, toss RPO, etc. It’s the opposite of what McDaniels is doing in some ways. It forces LB and DBs to play closer to the line and opens intermediate and deep passes. Taysom at QB is a run advantage based on blocking numbers. Taysom next to Carr with Olave in motion or Taysom in motion near Carr is an unpredictable advantage that opens deep shots and RPO.

 

[jahsoul357]

Here is what Miami is doing. Hill and Waddle coming off motion is providing such a speed advantage that most teams can’t react. If teams play LBs deep zone, you punish with the run or hot routes. The Saints have the speed with Olave and Rasheed and QBs with good deep balls to run this.

The NFL is a game of advantages. Motion can help read the D and give WR a free release with a speed advantage. It stretches the D and forces off-coverage. Motion WRs get to their spot faster which can shorten the time QBs hold the ball (Saints QBs have a major problem locking in and holding the ball).

I’ve been asking for Taysom motion and in the backfield on shotgun because it’s an advantage. He can block, chip, motion handoff to RPO, motion direct snap, draw, toss RPO, etc. It’s the opposite of what McDaniels is doing in some ways. It forces LB and DBs to play closer to the line and opens intermediate and deep passes. Taysom at QB is a run advantage based on blocking numbers. Taysom next to Carr with Olave in motion or Taysom in motion near Carr is an unpredictable advantage that opens deep shots and RPO.

Crazy thing.....we used to do this with Harty....

 

[B4YOU]

Crazy thing.....we used to do this with Harty....

Our play calling creativity has regressed while having more talented skilled positions. I don’t know if this is Carmichael putting less on new QBs plates (Winston, Dalton, Carr) until they are comfortable or just bad playcalling/scheme.

Also, execution is just bad. How does one of the best screen game teams not be able to run screens for 2 years? PFF had us 7th worst in screens with the least screens called in 2022. That’s how you give up QB hits with bad plays and execution.

 

[jahsoul357]

Our play calling creativity has regressed while having more talented skilled positions. I don’t know if this is Carmichael putting less on new QBs plates (Winston, Dalton, Carr) until they are comfortable or just bad playcalling/scheme.

Also, execution is just bad. How does one of the best screen game teams not be able to run screens for 2 years? PFF had us 7th worst in screens with the least screens called in 2022. That’s how you give up QB hits with bad plays and execution.

I think it is Sneaky Pete more than anything.

Successful screen off motion in 2021...

View attachment motion1.mp4

 

[St. Geezy]

I remember that, I think Kamara made a comment that the offense was going to use motion now and that was attributed to adding Carr to the offense.

What has happened so far? In the passing game, the Saints have the lowest rate of using motion (12.0%) while being middle of the pack in net yards/attempt (5.7 yds/DB).

That said, talent is still a need, and motion isn't a cure all. The Falcons rank 4th for motion usage when passing, but are the 4th worst team in net yards/attempt (4.5 yds/DB). The Giants are another team--9th in motion usage, 6th worst team in net yards/attempt (4.6 yds/DB).

Where did you get that 12% figure from? I’m interested in this sort of data.

 

[Rouxble]

Where did you get that 12% figure from? I’m interested in this sort of data.

There’s a program called R that pulls data from several sources with a package called nflfastR, that’s the quickest way because a lot of the clean up is done. I’m building templates to quickly convert the mountain of data into useful info rather than suffer death by a thousand pivot tables.

There is also a link to the repository which has all the data split up with some cleanup and aggregation needed, if you search nflfastR (or maybe nflreadR) it should have a link with a glossary for all the data fields and a site with all the different CSV’s that the data gets pulled from.

The four best CSV’s are the:

- Players (to convert numerical ID’s to player names)
- PBP (exhaustive NFL play by play data with plenty of binary variables)
- Participation (players on field by play, personnel packages, etc)
- FTN data (has info on motion, screens, play action, and other play by play)

With R a lot of the above is combined and blank cells are filled, without it takes some work to combine the four.

 

[St. Geezy]

There’s a program called R that pulls data from several sources with a package called nflfastR, that’s the quickest way because a lot of the clean up is done. I’m building templates to quickly convert the mountain of data into useful info rather than suffer death by a thousand pivot tables.

There is also a link to the repository which has all the data split up with some cleanup and aggregation needed, if you search nflfastR (or maybe nflreadR) it should have a link with a glossary for all the data fields and a site with all the different CSV’s that the data gets pulled from.

The four best CSV’s are the:

- Players (to convert numerical ID’s to player names)
- PBP (exhaustive NFL play by play data with plenty of binary variables)
- Participation (players on field by play, personnel packages, etc)
- FTN data (has info on motion, screens, play action, and other play by play)

With R a lot of the above is combined and blank cells are filled, without it takes some work to combine the four.

 

[saintsmarchin]

We won the superbowl because we ran the ball.

 

[Rouxble]

My goal is to share the data weekly once I get the templates built, so you’ll get the info either way.

 

[jahsoul357]

My goal is to share the data weekly once I get the templates built, so you’ll get the info either way.

That's what's up man. I was looking at setting up APIs to pull certain data but end of the quarter is no joke...lol

 

[Rouxble]

That's what's up man. I was looking at setting up APIs to pull certain data but end of the quarter is no joke...lol

Do you use SIS Data Hub? I thought I saw you source it once. It has a few more pieces of data I wish I had, although I don’t remember it being play by play.