The undesirable but most likely reality. (5 Viewers)

[State Of Affairs]

I listened to Underhill’s pod on Saturday and I think the biggest point he made was the one that gets brushed under the rug.

The casual fan want DA to be fired to punish him as the singular scapegoat for all the Saints problems.

I’m in no way endorsing DA, and I I know NO ONE wants to hear what Mickey said (look beyond the results) but I’m looking at it from a business perspective.

It’s not DA’s fault the cap is in shambles (and it is), it’s not DAs fault that his highest priced players are mostly ineffective, aging vets because we are forced to push salary out and only a small part (I’m sure he had input but no real control) of the draft failures are his fault.

What I’m setting up to say is a new coach won’t change much and a good coach won’t take this job.

You have the tear down and clean up before you get to the rebuild. NU pointed out it will take up to 3 years to clean the cap up because we can’t simply cut all the high priced vets, we will have to push money out just to get under the cap, like we do every single season ($80 plus million over next season)

My point is, I’m deducting that they would be fine keeping DA as long as they can to continue the tear down/clean up portion to make this a desirable job before bringing in a top coaching prospect.

 

[Devildog]

Which is why it is better to do it now rather than try to keep hanging on and getting no results.

This should have been done as soon as Payton left.

 

[Saint Greg]

That’s what Underhill was saying yesterday. Of course he wasn’t around for our two prior coaching changes we went from Ditka to a division championship in one year and from Katrina to the conference championship game in one year.

We weren’t the most desirable location in 2006 either. You really don’t know which hires are going to work out. Hindsight everyone on here talks about how we should’ve hired Dan Campbell but I don’t remember a big push for him around here. What I do remember is a lot of people wanting Doug Pederson or Mike McDaniel. Their records are pretty similar to DA’s.

Coaches and quarterbacks. You really don’t know which ones are going to work out but you have to take your shots.

 

[State Of Affairs]

Which is why it is better to do it now rather than try to keep hanging on and getting no results.

This should have been done as soon as Payton left.

When you say “do it now” do you mean fire the coach or tear it down?

 

[State Of Affairs]

That’s what Underhill was saying yesterday. Of course he wasn’t around for our two prior coaching changes we went from Ditka to a division championship in one year and from Katrina to the conference championship game in one year.

We weren’t the most desirable location in 2006 either. You really don’t know which hires are going to work out. Hindsight everyone on here talks about how we should’ve hired Dan Campbell but I don’t remember a big push for him around here. What I do remember is a lot of people wanting Doug Pederson or Mike McDaniel. Their records are pretty similar to DA’s.

Coaches and quarterbacks. You really don’t know which ones are going to work out but you have to take your shots.

This is true but you want the one that has the most proven track record, not the 6th option.

But yea, you’re right when you say you don’t know. It’s like the draft.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Which is why it is better to do it now rather than try to keep hanging on and getting no results.

This should have been done as soon as Payton left.

That’s hindsight talking- even though plenty were calling for the same thing at the time
Most anticipated a cap flush was impending, but Saints had a top defense and offensive assets
When we accept that a tear down is no guarantee of anything, it makes sense to take a gamble on playing the cards we had post SP
It didn’t work out
Doesn’t mean there wasn’t sense to making that choice

 

[Devildog]

That’s hindsight talking- even though plenty were calling for the same thing at the time
Most anticipated a cap flush was impending, but Saints had a top defense and offensive assets
When we accept that a tear down is no guarantee of anything, it makes sense to take a gamble on playing the cards we had post SP
It didn’t work out
Doesn’t mean there wasn’t sense to making that choice

Yeah, I get it, but I’m of the belief that it should be done earlier rather than later.

But who am I other than a pissed off fan?

 

[Devildog]

When you say “do it now” do you mean fire the coach or tear it down?

Tear it down. And fire the coach.

 

[State Of Affairs]

Tear it down. And fire the coach.

Dang man… I spent like 10 minutes composing that post and it looks like I’m not changing hearts and minds…

Seriously, I’m not trying changing any anyone’s mind, I’m presenting some facts and the only thing that’s an opinion is that you might as well keep DA cuz the next guy will not come in and be able to fix this in a couple years unless he brings a Hall of Fame QB with him.

We literally had to keep Ryan Ram on the roster cuz his retirement/cut/trade would accelerate his cap hit…. And Jordan is our 3rd highest paid player this season and would cost $38 MILLION to cut him.

It would be nice to have two $12… $14 million players on the field helping us. Would make a difference.

 

[LifeForceDave]

Tear it down, start over now. It’s not like this division has a powerhouse of a team like the chiefs that we will be looking up at for a decade plus. Get ahead of the rebuild now and if we get lucky to find someone to improve us by a few games we are in the mix in the division.

 

[Saint Greg]

This is true but you want the one that has the most proven track record, not the 6th option.

But yea, you’re right when you say you don’t know. It’s like the draft.

I just realized Campbell was hired Payton’s last year so anyone saying we should’ve hired him…I guess they wanted us to fire Payton.

You gotta take your shots. I’d rather take one next year and another in three years then waste my time with DA so I can hire the next Brian Daboll over Kevin O’Connell.

I guess O’Connell would be the best coaching hire from 2022. But it’s not a great list. I don’t remember anyone here wanting him.

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[muddbug2]

That’s what Underhill was saying yesterday. Of course he wasn’t around for our two prior coaching changes we went from Ditka to a division championship in one year and from Katrina to the conference championship game in one year.

We weren’t the most desirable location in 2006 either. You really don’t know which hires are going to work out. Hindsight everyone on here talks about how we should’ve hired Dan Campbell but I don’t remember a big push for him around here. What I do remember is a lot of people wanting Doug Pederson or Mike McDaniel. Their records are pretty similar to DA’s.

Coaches and quarterbacks. You really don’t know which ones are going to work out but you have to take your shots.

I agree.
There are only 32 of these positions in the world and only a few become available each year so they can’t be passed on when available even by the “good” coaches.
DA has had zero success as a HC anywhere and shows no promise of future success. Therefore there is no downside of moving on from him.

It’s a craps shoot on any hire.

Also the salary cap is only on the players so no problems there for a coach change.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I listened to Underhill’s pod on Saturday and I think the biggest point he made was the one that gets brushed under the rug.

The casual fan want DA to be fired to punish him as the singular scapegoat for all the Saints problems.

I’m in no way endorsing DA, and I I know NO ONE wants to hear what Mickey said (look beyond the results) but I’m looking at it from a business perspective.

It’s not DA’s fault the cap is in shambles (and it is), it’s not DAs fault that his highest priced players are mostly ineffective, aging vets because we are forced to push salary out and only a small part (I’m sure he had input but no real control) of the draft failures are his fault.

What I’m setting up to say is a new coach won’t change much and a good coach won’t take this job.

You have the tear down and clean up before you get to the rebuild. NU pointed out it will take up to 3 years to clean the cap up because we can’t simply cut all the high priced vets, we will have to push money out just to get under the cap, like we do every single season ($80 plus million over next season)

My point is, I’m deducting that they would be fine keeping DA as long as they can to continue the tear down/clean up portion to make this a desirable job before bringing in a top coaching prospect.

I listened to the pod as well and I think he's over complicating it. The right coach and the right QB can change things, always has always will. I'm listening to the Saints Broncos broadcast as I 'm typing this and the just said it during game "Payton/Brees came in and turned the entire thing around". That has happened enough times in history to know it's true.

Don't be one of the teams that fires a coach mid-season...it looks bad. Wait until the season is done, let him go, try to find the right coach and QB. What's clear is Allen isn't the right coach and Carr isn't the right QB.

 

[Zardnok]

Dang man… I spent like 10 minutes composing that post and it looks like I’m not changing hearts and minds…

Seriously, I’m not trying changing any anyone’s mind, I’m presenting some facts and the only thing that’s an opinion is that you might as well keep DA cuz the next guy will not come in and be able to fix this in a couple years unless he brings a Hall of Fame QB with him.

We literally had to keep Ryan Ram on the roster cuz his retirement/cut/trade would accelerate his cap hit…. And Jordan is our 3rd highest paid player this season and would cost $38 MILLION to cut him.

It would be nice to have two $12… $14 million players on the field helping us. Would make a difference.

You do present a cogent argument and one that logically makes the most sense. Fans don't always make sense. It comes from the root word, Fanatic.

It will definitely take some time to work out from under the Cap hell we are currently in. We did it to ourselves. Make it happen Loomis was a Mantra. Unfortunately, making it happen didn't make Championships and Superbowls happen, so was it worth it? Regardless, we took our shot and came up short. If you never try, you never succeed. Do we pay the price now, absolutely, but there will be brighter days ahead. We will get right and we will take another shot. Will it work! My Fanatic self sure thinks so!

 

[zatsnzapps]

Dang man… I spent like 10 minutes composing that post and it looks like I’m not changing hearts and minds…

I agree with Mickey that we have to look beyond the results. Stats don't always tell the story and neither do records. Take the Lions a few years ago when Dan Campbell was turning around the Lions. They were losing almost every week, but they were very competitive and they were losing late in the 4th quarter (I think one of the games was against the Ravens when Justin Tucker hit a 66 yard FG at the end to win it for them).

With that said, I don't think Mickey is relaying the message he thinks he is. Many of us ARE looking beyond the results/record and it's actually a worse situation. When looking at a coach, I want to see someone who inspires their team, the players play hard, and the coach is in control. I see none of that with DA.

The defense, which is what Allen is known for, has all but folded up its tent and gone home. They have quit. I see very few guys out there playing inspired football. So many on both sides of the ball are just going through the motions. And, then there's the debacle of DA talking to the media about this clusterfu...clusterbomb. I find it dumbfounding that the reason given for the defense's play is they need to get back to fundamentals on tackling. Um, these guys are professionals in a game they have been playing since they were kids, and the fundamentals are taught in pee-wee football.

So, DA is a bad head coach, not a leader, and his bread and butter defense is a sieve. He needs to go.