The undesirable but most likely reality. (14 Viewers)

[lilvipa221]

DA needs to be fired because the players do not play hard for him anymore, he has lost the locker room. And also, my issues with DA do not start and end only with his tenure as head coach but the countless amounts of big games that we lost in the final seconds or final minute of the game when we couldn't get a stop. He is a good defensive coordinator for the first 3.5 quarters then never could figure out how to coach the final minutes of a game and close them out even when we had payton/brees and a healthy team.

We will not get any of the new and sought after head coaches because this is not a good situation for a brand new head coach. What we need next is an older/experienced head coach who can instill good habits to the team and play hard for. Mike Vrabel or Vance Joseph. We can't think our next head coach will be the guy for the future because we will be bad for a long time before we figure out a path forward.

 

[Hedon James]

Other than Brock Purdy, who literally no one saw coming hence his draft position, what QB that actually looks good have the Saints been in a position to draft since DA has been here? If we didn't sign Carr last season what QB would we have targeted in that draft? Will Levis? Going back to the year before it's Kenny Pickett? Desmond Ridder? Malik Willis? Matt Coral?

Coaches know the leash is short in the NFL, they don't have the job security to keep picking a young QB year after year until one hits unless they have skins on the wall. One of the last two coaches that people thought had that kind of job security is doing TV and youtube right now while the Patriots look even worse than last year. The other took a sabbatical and is coaching the Broncos, where he might find out he doesn't have that kind of job security with a new franchise if results don't come as early as next season.



I like Ross Jackson as a podcaster/Saints specific reporter more than I like DA as a Head Coach but DA has never had the best circumstances since he's been our HC. We have no idea what that looks like. I'm fine with never finding out what that looks like but it's just a comment that doesn't make any sense to me. This isn't the 2018 roster DA is running with here, let alone the 2011 one. That's without factoring in the ridiculous amount of injuries.

I wasn't a fan of Carr, but I wasn't opposed either. Something had to be done to make the effort to upgrade....they took a swing, but appear to have missed. I think that could have been predicted, but they made the attempt. And I think that's the point you're missing. Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time we KNEW we needed to upgrade the QB position. We just didn't know who was the best choice. So to answer your question...Levis, Pickett, Ridder, Willis, Corral....YES! When you don't have a franchise QB on roster, you keep drafting until you get one! Saints didn't even take the swing....they defaulted to Carr....a fully-formed QB with very little or no further upside. At best, he's a stop-gap or bridge. Since then, we've taken Haener & Rattler in consecutive drafts. I'm fine with that. And I hope they do it again in 2025! You keep drafting QBs until you have a franchise QB....it's that damn important! And if the DA apologists have any credibility, that's the ONE thing DA needs to save his job and be successful.

Your points about a short leash and job security are well founded though. But I maintain that's NOT a reason to NOT pick a QB. In fact, you MUST pick a QB (and hope it's a "hit") if you want to stick around beyond the first 3 years. The consensus on this board seems to be that the "right" coach and the "right" QB is the key to the future; but we all know that the draft is a major crapshoot, and you have to be somewhat lucky to find the "right" one. If you don't have the "right" one, the one thing you CANNOT do is take no one, as you're guaranteeing another year of what you already know ain't the "right" one. Just like many things in life, you HAVE TO take the shot and hope luck plays in your favor sooner rather than later. If it does not, all you can do is play the game of "sample size", knowing that with enough attempts, eventually you WILL hit.

The only other thing I'd add about your 3rd paragraph is that in the NFL..."stuff occurs" every season. Injuries, scheduling quirks, bad matchups at the wrong time, a big whiff on the FA splurge....it's always SOMETHING. That's normal, and it's to be expected. To that end, I agree with Ross Jackson....9-8 is the best we're gonna get (best we can expect) from DA, under NORMAL circumstances. This should not be confused with IDEAL circumstances....those outlier seasons where every FA acquisition performs to pay; the draft picks are all hits; the schedule is favorable; the bye week is at an opportune time; the team is injury free. I would expect ANY HC to perform well under those circumstances. But how often do those seasons come around? And why are we defending a coach who hasn't experienced that season yet? The measure of a GOOD coach, IMO, is how they handle adversity. In the best case scenario, they "rise above" the situation and coach their way out of it. In the worst case scenario, they "tread water" until the crisis has passed....sometimes that's the best you can do. But since when does a crisis last 3 (or more?) seasons? If a crisis lasts that long, you've got the wrong folks in charge. Maybe not entirely the HCs fault, but he hasn't done what a "good" coach does either.

DA & ML BOTH gotta go. ML created this mess, and DA just wallowing in it. Not a good combination. Do SOMETHING to start the cleanup. I can be a very patient man in the name of progress. Maybe even accepting of a temporary regression in the name of progress. But not when it comes to the status quo....not THIS status quo. Maybe the Chiefs/Reid/Mahomes status quo....but not THIS one. JMO...

 

[Bill]

Dang man… I spent like 10 minutes composing that post and it looks like I’m not changing hearts and minds…

Seriously, I’m not trying changing any anyone’s mind, I’m presenting some facts and the only thing that’s an opinion is that you might as well keep DA cuz the next guy will not come in and be able to fix this in a couple years unless he brings a Hall of Fame QB with him.

We literally had to keep Ryan Ram on the roster cuz his retirement/cut/trade would accelerate his cap hit…. And Jordan is our 3rd highest paid player this season and would cost $38 MILLION to cut him.

It would be nice to have two $12… $14 million players on the field helping us. Would make a difference.

The fact is that no move or decision comes with an iron clad guarantee of success. In the meantime, you have a fan base that believes nothing good is going to happen unless their personal 'repair plan' is carried out.

The hard part of being a GM is that he also knows that some 'painful' decisions have to be made to get the team back on track. But he has to sell the idea to the fan base that the team is very close to reaching its goals at the start of each new season.

I have yet to hear a GM announce that he will be making moves that will sink the season but will benefit the team 2 or 3 years from now, and that everyone will just have to deal with the orange cones of the rebuild for a while. That's never happened anywhere, and we sure won't see Loomis ever do that.

 

[saint_drago]

Which is why it is better to do it now rather than try to keep hanging on and getting no results.

This should have been done as soon as Payton left.

Without question. I totally expected it. I think a lot of us did. We had a good run but the window was closed. I was fully prepared to stink for a few years while the plan unfolded. Who could've guessed that the grand plan was to stay all in forever? Who would've thought they would find a way to double down and go even more all in with Dennis Allen and Jameis Winston at QB?

It was a bold strategy to say the least. They had a chance to start over but that ship has sailed. Loomis and Harley will continue to win gold in the offseason Salary Cap Olympics. Not even because they want to but because they have to just to reach cap compliance. Lol what are we doing? This is absurd.

 

[Covington Saint]

I listened to Underhill’s pod on Saturday and I think the biggest point he made was the one that gets brushed under the rug.

The casual fan want DA to be fired to punish him as the singular scapegoat for all the Saints problems.

I’m in no way endorsing DA, and I I know NO ONE wants to hear what Mickey said (look beyond the results) but I’m looking at it from a business perspective.

It’s not DA’s fault the cap is in shambles (and it is), it’s not DAs fault that his highest priced players are mostly ineffective, aging vets because we are forced to push salary out and only a small part (I’m sure he had input but no real control) of the draft failures are his fault.

What I’m setting up to say is a new coach won’t change much and a good coach won’t take this job.

You have the tear down and clean up before you get to the rebuild. NU pointed out it will take up to 3 years to clean the cap up because we can’t simply cut all the high priced vets, we will have to push money out just to get under the cap, like we do every single season ($80 plus million over next season)

My point is, I’m deducting that they would be fine keeping DA as long as they can to continue the tear down/clean up portion to make this a desirable job before bringing in a top coaching prospect.

I'll say this. It's not DA's fault for cap and injury situations for the most part and a few personnel decisions biting us in the butt are probably not his fault neither.

But, if he's a coach that doesn't have the players respect or has the command of the lockerroom and more importantly the entire organization, then he's not the right coach to go into a last year of contract and continue to waste time rebuilding our team in the right direction. We need a new leader at that point. Point should be at the end of the year.

 

[blackadder]

I listened to Underhill’s pod on Saturday and I think the biggest point he made was the one that gets brushed under the rug.

The casual fan want DA to be fired to punish him as the singular scapegoat for all the Saints problems.

I’m in no way endorsing DA, and I I know NO ONE wants to hear what Mickey said (look beyond the results) but I’m looking at it from a business perspective.

It’s not DA’s fault the cap is in shambles (and it is), it’s not DAs fault that his highest priced players are mostly ineffective, aging vets because we are forced to push salary out and only a small part (I’m sure he had input but no real control) of the draft failures are his fault.

What I’m setting up to say is a new coach won’t change much and a good coach won’t take this job.

You have the tear down and clean up before you get to the rebuild. NU pointed out it will take up to 3 years to clean the cap up because we can’t simply cut all the high priced vets, we will have to push money out just to get under the cap, like we do every single season ($80 plus million over next season)

My point is, I’m deducting that they would be fine keeping DA as long as they can to continue the tear down/clean up portion to make this a desirable job before bringing in a top coaching prospect.

It’s true the injuries and the cap aren’t Allen’s fault. It’s also true he hasn’t added much in 3 years. If anything. Focus on the recent very winnable games where he couldn’t close. Focus on his results, despite Loomis. Allen ain’t it.

If it’s going to suck would rather give a shot to almost anyone else who wants it.

 

[Boy_of_wonder75]

It’s true the injuries and the cap aren’t Allen’s fault. It’s also true he hasn’t added much in 3 years. If anything. Focus on the recent very winnable games where he couldn’t close. Focus on his results, despite Loomis. Allen ain’t it.

If it’s going to suck would rather give a shot to almost anyone else who wants it.

I think Bladder is right. He's been given the opportunity and, for whatever reason, it just isn't happening.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

DA is not a good head coach. Anyone with a brain knows this. I've watched every game and recorded all of them over the past 24 years.
I just can't listen to his interviews, post and pre game pressers. He says the exact same thing every, single day.
Having said that, the thing that really chaps my butt is, Loomis making comparisons of Hall of Fame coaches of the yester year, while sticking with DA because those coaches had losing records in their first few years in the league, all the while smacking that gum in his arrogant fashion.
That really got under my skin.
Benson will never do it, but Loomis needs to be given his walking papers also.

 

[SweetT]

This is hilarious. You can tell if a certain coach has a certain “it” to them, to justify keeping them around, even in a rebuild. There literally is nothing our HC exudes that leads anyone to believe he is a guy who can get us to where we need to be. I challenge anyone to recall a time where he did or say something, that made you say “Oh yeah, we will be alright”. “I have the utmost faith in him”. Just bc you stroll up and down on the sidelines, with your chest puffed out, doesn’t mean you have that key piece inside the chest (heart). It’s evident in a post loss press conference. Nothing but a bunch of hunched shoulders action, sulking, and cluelessness. A true warrior keeps the chest out, head held high, and looks forward to the next challenge, despite what transpired that day. Your team takes on your energy and demeanor. This is where we are. Just lifeless bodies in a building and on a field……..but hey, they are all getting a paycheck, and we the fans get the complete end of the stick.

 

[State Of Affairs]

Everyone seems too many...

That very well could be... but as Saints fans, we should know better. The Saints have had not 1, but 2 coaches that came in and completely changed the franchise: Jim Mora and Sean Payton. Mora with Bobby Hebert (who can be accused of many things, but not of being an elite QB) and a bunch of USFL players who were rejected by the NFL; and Payton with a QB who was decent in SD, but was ran out town with a shoulder no one had any idea if it was going to hold, and 33 other rejects from other teams to boot.

As for cap space, in the NFL you can always find a situation to make an argument for or against anything: I'm looking at the Vikings... they got a reject QB who was declared a bust and is on his 4th team, Spotrac (if I am reading it correctly) says they got $66M in dead money, and they are 5-0.

Changes may or may not work. But not making changes usually doesn't yield a different result.

This is outstanding perspective. No one is any good without the right circumstances…

The GREAT Bill Belichick was unsuccessful without Tom Brady and so far, the Great Sean Payton has been unsuccessful without Drew Brees.

This is a player driven league! Good players need a good coach to reach the top…. Good coaching still can’t win without players.

If we played a team with A rookie 5th round pick or 2nd year 4th round pick at QB, no interior Oline, no receivers, we would blow a gasket if we lost to that team but we expect to win with that team or the coach gets fired.

Now I’m talking about it like I’m advocating for DA… I AM NOT but I am criticizing the idea that firing everyone is the answer to fix all problems.

We were a good team til the injuries hit.

 

[St. Widge]

This is outstanding perspective. No one is any good without the right circumstances…

The GREAT Bill Belichick was unsuccessful without Tom Brady and so far, the Great Sean Payton has been unsuccessful without Drew Brees.

This is a player driven league! Good players need a good coach to reach the top…. Good coaching still can’t win without players.

If we played a team with A rookie 5th round pick or 2nd year 4th round pick at QB, no interior Oline, no receivers, we would blow a gasket if we lost to that team but we expect to win with that team or the coach gets fired.

Now I’m talking about it like I’m advocating for DA… I AM NOT but I am criticizing the idea that firing everyone is the answer to fix all problems.

We were a good team til the injuries hit.

I don't totally disagree, but good to great coaches have teams that play better than their talent. For instance, in his last year here Payton went 9-8 with a team with no QB, no real WRs, and decimated by injury at a level close to this year. And frankly, the Broncos team he has now has no business being 4-3 and are only at that level because he's a great coach. The Saints, if healthy, have significantly more talent than those Broncos. And frankly, if DA was a better coach this team would have won one of if not both the Philly and Atlanta games.

This season would be totally different if they won one or both of those games. It's why I don't think the injury excuse works for DA. At that time we were mostly just down McCoy and we had great chances to win those game, and probably should have won those games, but didn't. And that's a pattern for DA that needs to come to an end.

 

[Saint Spud]

That’s what Underhill was saying yesterday. Of course he wasn’t around for our two prior coaching changes we went from Ditka to a division championship in one year and from Katrina to the conference championship game in one year.

We weren’t the most desirable location in 2006 either. You really don’t know which hires are going to work out. Hindsight everyone on here talks about how we should’ve hired Dan Campbell but I don’t remember a big push for him around here. What I do remember is a lot of people wanting Doug Pederson or Mike McDaniel. Their records are pretty similar to DA’s.

Coaches and quarterbacks. You really don’t know which ones are going to work out but you have to take your shots.

This.

And the cap situation is way overblown. We had a bad cap for years, but it didn’t matter bc we drafted well.

Our recent drafts have been bad. And we don’t have an elite QB to lift up the talent level.

I don’t think DA is the solution. But he’s also not the biggest problem with this team. It’s player acquisition.

 

[ravenblade23x]

im just making conversation…. I can see points people are making and I could debate a few more points but the reality is the fans won’t allow it. The fans would lose interest and hit the team in the wallet and that will force the teams hand.

For sure, and that's all I am doing as well. I guess my problem with Nick's passement is that it's pointless to move on from Allen because nobody can fix this mess. Like you said the fans will speak with there wallet if Allen stays around much longer.

 

[State Of Affairs]

I don't totally disagree, but good to great coaches have teams that play better than their talent. For instance, in his last year here Payton went 9-8 with a team with no QB, no real WRs, and decimated by injury at a level close to this year. And frankly, the Broncos team he has now has no business being 4-3 and are only at that level because he's a great coach. The Saints, if healthy, have significantly more talent than those Broncos. And frankly, if DA was a better coach this team would have won one of if not both the Philly and Atlanta games.

This season would be totally different if they won one or both of those games. It's why I don't think the injury excuse works for DA. At that time we were mostly just down McCoy and we had great chances to win those game, and probably should have won those games, but didn't. And that's a pattern for DA that needs to come to an end.

I see both sides… chicken / egg kinda thing…

I also agree that good coaching gets the best outs their players…

That’s why I keep saying I’m just making it interesting conversation cuz I’m not dying on either hill.

 

[No2DC]

I see both sides… chicken / egg kinda thing…

I also agree that good coaching gets the best outs their players…

That’s why I keep saying I’m just making it interesting conversation cuz I’m not dying on either hill.

New year, new excuse. That's the deer's tenure here. Ironically, it was a story similar to that of the Raiders.