The undesirable but most likely reality. (10 Viewers)

[St. Widge]

Hold on… SOME? SOME of the responsibility??? Are we serious here? Payton and Loomis ARE the people who decided to roll contracts chasing one last shot.

I’m not even saying I disagree but this was going on for YEARS and now the guy who created this mess, propitiated the mess then bailed when it was a disaster is only “SOME” responsible???

That is completely unreasonable.

Yes SOME. Because Payton hasn't been here for 3 years. So whatever happened after he left is on DA and Loomis. You can't blame Payton for spending big on Carr or the extension of Cam Jordan. So maybe you are the one being a bit unreasonable?

But sure, the lion share is really on Payton and Loomis. And it's going to take some time to reset it.

And if you don't disagree why are you internet yelling with all caps and calling what I said completely unreasonable?

 

[St. Widge]

Which ones? Name the big cap liabilities that DA was in control of.

Now, do say the extending of guys before this season started cuz no one had a choice. They had to get under the cap to field a team.

DA was clearly the driving force behind the Derek Carr signing. And that is a big part of our current cap situation. He's a solid QB but it didn't really make sense to add him to this roster for that kind of money and kicking the can to do it. It would have made more sense to sign a cheaper stop gap and keep drafting young QBs until you find the right one.

 

[St. Widge]

Somebody will take the job but then everyone will be disappointed cuz they didn’t get one of the top candidates and when he goes 7-10 due to bad bad cap, average QB and several aging vets that you can’t cut because of of accelerated cap hits, everyone will be calling for his head…. So what did you gain?

You can't not change coaches because some fans are dumb enough to expect better than 7-10 from a new coach that is rebuilding the roster.

 

[Saint Greg]

DA was clearly the driving force behind the Derek Carr signing. And that is a big part of our current cap situation. He's a solid QB but it didn't really make sense to add him to this roster for that kind of money and kicking the can to do it. It would have made more sense to sign a cheaper stop gap and keep drafting young QBs until you find the right one.

Well we tried to get Deshaun Watson. Thank god we didn’t. I think we just went to the next best guy (a better, cheaper guy as it turns out). He happened to have a relationship with DA. But I think we would’ve signed him either way.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I listened to Underhill’s pod on Saturday and I think the biggest point he made was the one that gets brushed under the rug.

The casual fan want DA to be fired to punish him as the singular scapegoat for all the Saints problems.

I’m in no way endorsing DA, and I I know NO ONE wants to hear what Mickey said (look beyond the results) but I’m looking at it from a business perspective.

It’s not DA’s fault the cap is in shambles (and it is), it’s not DAs fault that his highest priced players are mostly ineffective, aging vets because we are forced to push salary out and only a small part (I’m sure he had input but no real control) of the draft failures are his fault.

What I’m setting up to say is a new coach won’t change much and a good coach won’t take this job.

You have the tear down and clean up before you get to the rebuild. NU pointed out it will take up to 3 years to clean the cap up because we can’t simply cut all the high priced vets, we will have to push money out just to get under the cap, like we do every single season ($80 plus million over next season)

My point is, I’m deducting that they would be fine keeping DA as long as they can to continue the tear down/clean up portion to make this a desirable job before bringing in a top coaching prospect.

Great post.

Only issue I have is I’ve wanted and hoped they’d begin the reset, tear down, etc. when Sean left.

Our window has been closed for a few years now, and I’ve been consistent with that.

I know it matters not what I want (or any of us) but had we torn down then we’d be much farther down the road to recovery. Is what it is tho, I know.


Lastly as a very old fan of the team I’ve see. It all and I’d rather ANYTHING other than mired in mediocrity. Barely missing the playoffs each season and a middling draft pick.

If we aren’t playing playoff football I’d rather completely suck and get top picks until we hit on one or more, acquire more picks for more of a chance and also helps the cap.

 

[ravenblade23x]

I listened to Underhill’s pod on Saturday and I think the biggest point he made was the one that gets brushed under the rug.

The casual fan want DA to be fired to punish him as the singular scapegoat for all the Saints problems.

I’m in no way endorsing DA, and I I know NO ONE wants to hear what Mickey said (look beyond the results) but I’m looking at it from a business perspective.

It’s not DA’s fault the cap is in shambles (and it is), it’s not DAs fault that his highest priced players are mostly ineffective, aging vets because we are forced to push salary out and only a small part (I’m sure he had input but no real control) of the draft failures are his fault.

What I’m setting up to say is a new coach won’t change much and a good coach won’t take this job.

You have the tear down and clean up before you get to the rebuild. NU pointed out it will take up to 3 years to clean the cap up because we can’t simply cut all the high priced vets, we will have to push money out just to get under the cap, like we do every single season ($80 plus million over next season)

My point is, I’m deducting that they would be fine keeping DA as long as they can to continue the tear down/clean up portion to make this a desirable job before bringing in a top coaching prospect.

I don't disagree with many of the points you make in this post.
However, this team started 2-0 before the injuries started to pile up and we lost 2 very winnable games. While there where many factors in those loses, they both where results of defensive breakdowns. In my opinion some of this 5 games losing streak is on the shoulders of Allen.

Lets say Nick is right and it takes three years to break it all down and get thing right. That means 3 mores losing seasons with Allen before you make a change. The smarter approach is to move on from Allen and bring in a new face. This gives you two things:

1. It buys you some time with the fans. 3 more years of Allen will just kill any trust you have with the fan base. Fans will get excited about seeing a fresh face.
2. You might get lucky and hire the next great coach.

The reality is, I am not sure any of this matters because I think Loomis thinks that Allen is the right coach and that the team is only struggling because of inquires. Feel like they have the blinders on some of the real issues facing this team and they think just getting healthy will fix all the problems.

 

[St. Widge]

Well we tried to get Deshaun Watson. Thank god we didn’t. I think we just went to the next best guy (a better, cheaper guy as it turns out). He happened to have a relationship with DA. But I think we would’ve signed him either way.

It kind of depends on who the coach was and what QB they wanted. Maybe they would have wanted Carr, but it seems likely that a coach with no connection to Carr likely would have preferred a young QB in the draft.

 

[SystemShock]

Somebody will take the job but then everyone will be disappointed cuz they didn’t get one of the top candidates and when he goes 7-10 due to bad bad cap, average QB and several aging vets that you can’t cut because of of accelerated cap hits, everyone will be calling for his head…. So what did you gain?

Everyone seems too many...

That very well could be... but as Saints fans, we should know better. The Saints have had not 1, but 2 coaches that came in and completely changed the franchise: Jim Mora and Sean Payton. Mora with Bobby Hebert (who can be accused of many things, but not of being an elite QB) and a bunch of USFL players who were rejected by the NFL; and Payton with a QB who was decent in SD, but was ran out town with a shoulder no one had any idea if it was going to hold, and 33 other rejects from other teams to boot.

As for cap space, in the NFL you can always find a situation to make an argument for or against anything: I'm looking at the Vikings... they got a reject QB who was declared a bust and is on his 4th team, Spotrac (if I am reading it correctly) says they got $66M in dead money, and they are 5-0.

Changes may or may not work. But not making changes usually doesn't yield a different result.

 

[DerrickB]

So basically don't fire DA because the next guy will screw it up even more.

Underhill has some valid points in his recent pod, but the longer DA is around, fan intrest will dwindle.

 

[State Of Affairs]

I don't disagree with many of the points you make in this post.
However, this team started 2-0 before the injuries started to pile up and we lost 2 very winnable games. While there where many factors in those loses, they both where results of defensive breakdowns. In my opinion some of this 5 games losing streak is on the shoulders of Allen.

Lets say Nick is right and it takes three years to break it all down and get thing right. That means 3 mores losing seasons with Allen before you make a change. The smarter approach is to move on from Allen and bring in a new face. This gives you two things:

1. It buys you some time with the fans. 3 more years of Allen will just kill any trust you have with the fan base. Fans will get excited about seeing a fresh face.
2. You might get lucky and hire the next great coach.

The reality is, I am not sure any of this matters because I think Loomis thinks that Allen is the right coach and that the team is only struggling because of inquires. Feel like they have the blinders on some of the real issues facing this team and they think just getting healthy will fix all the problems.

im just making conversation…. I can see points people are making and I could debate a few more points but the reality is the fans won’t allow it. The fans would lose interest and hit the team in the wallet and that will force the teams hand.

 

[Epic Brownie]

The guy loses 2 for every 1 he wins matter the situation. He's a big problem. Move on from him and let's not overcomplicate it.

 

[austrian-saint]

Somebody will take the job but then everyone will be disappointed cuz they didn’t get one of the top candidates and when he goes 7-10 due to bad bad cap, average QB and several aging vets that you can’t cut because of of accelerated cap hits, everyone will be calling for his head…. So what did you gain?

We have to rebuild. We have to, there's no other way with all these aging vets and our cap situation. We can't rebuild with DA and his stuff. Good luck selling that to the fan base. I think everyone stands behind a young team trying to establish a new era, even with many hickups and some wild punches in the stomach. It won't happen without some bad growing paines from time to time. But I rather support a young team who plays with heart and passion, then watching some banged up vets who refuse to tackle and play against their HC. DA's time is over. The patience in the fanbase is over with him.

 

[Hubig]

Ross Jackson said it best. Even under the best circumstances, DA is a 9-8 coach.

 

[BarBar]

DA was clearly the driving force behind the Derek Carr signing. And that is a big part of our current cap situation. He's a solid QB but it didn't really make sense to add him to this roster for that kind of money and kicking the can to do it. It would have made more sense to sign a cheaper stop gap and keep drafting young QBs until you find the right one.

It made no sense. He didn't move the needle at all. This is the same team with Dalton at QB.

Dennis has made bad decision after bad decision.

I don't care what rationale or excuses he may have ....he needs to be fired. At the very least it shows accountability from the top. The fans are checking out. Look at the empty Superdome. It's pathetic what DA has done to this team in just 3 years.

The fans at least want to know someone at the top cares about winning.

Firing Dennis Allen today doesn't make us any worse. We are already bottom of the league.


Also, the longer they keep him the higher the chance that the team goes on a late win streak when it doesn't matter and they use that as an excuse to keep him....like last year.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[Saintslfc13]

It kind of depends on who the coach was and what QB they wanted. Maybe they would have wanted Carr, but it seems likely that a coach with no connection to Carr likely would have preferred a young QB in the draft.

Other than Brock Purdy, who literally no one saw coming hence his draft position, what QB that actually looks good have the Saints been in a position to draft since DA has been here? If we didn't sign Carr last season what QB would we have targeted in that draft? Will Levis? Going back to the year before it's Kenny Pickett? Desmond Ridder? Malik Willis? Matt Coral?

Coaches know the leash is short in the NFL, they don't have the job security to keep picking a young QB year after year until one hits unless they have skins on the wall. One of the last two coaches that people thought had that kind of job security is doing TV and youtube right now while the Patriots look even worse than last year. The other took a sabbatical and is coaching the Broncos, where he might find out he doesn't have that kind of job security with a new franchise if results don't come as early as next season.

Ross Jackson said it best. Even under the best circumstances, DA is a 9-8 coach.

I like Ross Jackson as a podcaster/Saints specific reporter more than I like DA as a Head Coach but DA has never had the best circumstances since he's been our HC. We have no idea what that looks like. I'm fine with never finding out what that looks like but it's just a comment that doesn't make any sense to me. This isn't the 2018 roster DA is running with here, let alone the 2011 one. That's without factoring in the ridiculous amount of injuries.