The undesirable but most likely reality. (17 Viewers)

[saints4eva]

The only reason I’m against firing Allen now is because it looks reactionary. We’ve already seen a former coaches response to Woody Allen firing Selah and I’m sure that sentiment is shared.

Currently Allen s having to make secondary moves to prove firing Saleh was correct decision, and if the team is still trash after the move then it’ll fall on him for being gung ho. Now who wants to work for a guy like that?

I know you meant Woody Johnson but I gotta admit I chuckled imagining Woody Allen as the Jets owner.

 

[Saint Jack]

He hasn't completed the 3rd year, mid season firings is what bad organizations do. All the organizations that do that are still struggling to this day. Jaguars did it w/ Urban, Raiders w/ Allen and several other coaches over the years, the Jets have done it before, the Panthers did. I mean, those teams bottom feed for a resason.

Allen is 26-51 in his career.
He deserves to get fired now.
If he gets fired tomorrow, no one from the national media to local to guys on YouTube will say he didn’t have enough time.

 

[SweetT]

Keeping a losing HC does not justify this. A good HC would’ve had players believing that they can win despite adversity. What this HC has shown players is:
We can’t beat good teams, even if we are healthy.
We can’t right a ship, if things go wrong.
Solutions are being talked about, but none hardly surfaces.
Lack of accountability
Fostering of a losing culture
Why prolong any of this?

 

[St4ever]

BULLSEYE! NAILED it!

And I hear the argument(s) to NOT fire a coach mid-season, as it likely won't solve anything. I hear you, and I understand your logic. Now hear this....KEEPING him for the remainder of the season solves nothing either. I want to "stop the bleeding"....cauterize the wound. Dismissing him...ASAP....sends a message to the players that the current results are unacceptable and the train is moving forward, for better or worse. Get on board, or the next change may be YOU. Keeping DA for the remainder of the season sends a message of tolerance (not always a bad thing) and complacency. There's the problem...complacency...how do you hold someone else accountable and ask them to do more when you haven't required more of yourself? (I'm looking at Loomis here)

I've been a fan since the USFL folded and my favorite coach (Mora) and my favorite players (Mills and Vaughn) all converged in New Orleans. I've seen this movie before....several times....different actors, but same script.

The only thing I would add, is that the GM MUST GO!!! When the GM helps to create a problem that cannot be resolved in a timely manner, the GM needs to be held responsible for his role in that also. Focus on the coach, and maybe the coaching issue gets resolved, but we still have a GM problem, IMO. Focus on the GM, and maybe the GM AND coaching issues get resolved simultaneously. Loomis needs to be held accountable for his role in this clusterfu....clusterbomb. Put the HEAT on Loomis...

The GM should be the focus because when SP left he had an option of trying to fix his own screw ups and chose to push them down the road with the interest rates climbing every year we did so. Keeping him will only continue to add more interest to the final number while we continue being a bad team.

We were looking at a three year rebuild when SP left in cap dollars and now with heavy cuts it’s at least two more years but keeping Loomis will add 1-5 more years of trying to win at all cost. So what should of been three years of bad Saints football that we have endured will turn out to be 5-8 years of bad football if Loomis stays, who knows maybe even longer.

How many season ticket holders will we lose in that time?

 

[Rexman100]

I listened to Underhill’s pod on Saturday and I think the biggest point he made was the one that gets brushed under the rug.

The casual fan want DA to be fired to punish him as the singular scapegoat for all the Saints problems.

I’m in no way endorsing DA, and I I know NO ONE wants to hear what Mickey said (look beyond the results) but I’m looking at it from a business perspective.

It’s not DA’s fault the cap is in shambles (and it is), it’s not DAs fault that his highest priced players are mostly ineffective, aging vets because we are forced to push salary out and only a small part (I’m sure he had input but no real control) of the draft failures are his fault.

What I’m setting up to say is a new coach won’t change much and a good coach won’t take this job.

You have the tear down and clean up before you get to the rebuild. NU pointed out it will take up to 3 years to clean the cap up because we can’t simply cut all the high priced vets, we will have to push money out just to get under the cap, like we do every single season ($80 plus million over next season)

My point is, I’m deducting that they would be fine keeping DA as long as they can to continue the tear down/clean up portion to make this a desirable job before bringing in a top coaching prospect.

Exactly, firing Da won’t help the cap. We’ll see

 

[Saint Jack]

Keeping a losing HC does not justify this. A good HC would’ve had players believing that they can win despite adversity. What this HC has shown players is:
We can’t beat good teams, even if we are healthy.
We can’t right a ship, if things go wrong.
Solutions are being talked about, but none hardly surfaces.
Lack of accountability
Fostering of a losing culture
Why prolong any of this?

Collectively, Allen has had six years as HC.
He’s had three years to prove that his Raiders tenure was the result of a bad organization.
He has failed.
He doesn’t deserve to finish the season.

And quite frankly, we’re at the point where the city will throw a parade the day DA gets canned.

 

[St4ever]

Watch what happens this off season and see how many more years gets tacked onto our woeful cap hell.
More than likely AK gets a new contract.
I’m guessing that young gets a new contract to although cap friendly for the first few years.
Carr will get extended again to move more money down the road.
Instead of digging our way back out of this hole we will move dollars around and make it work for a few more years to stay competitive.
We will see some retirements though and have to work on new players without money to sign anyone helpful.
Our first round defensive lineman will again be a bust.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Allen is 26-51 in his career.
He deserves to get fired now.
If he gets fired tomorrow, no one from the national media to local to guys on YouTube will say he didn’t have enough time.

You’re right, he does deserve to be fired now. As I said, firing him now wouldn’t be the wrong thing, it just wouldn’t be the best thing.

Let him keep losing. Worst that can happen is a higher draft pick.

 

[Brandon13]

Watch what happens this off season and see how many more years gets tacked onto our woeful cap hell.
More than likely AK gets a new contract.
I’m guessing that young gets a new contract to although cap friendly for the first few years.
Carr will get extended again to move more money down the road.
Instead of digging our way back out of this hole we will move dollars around and make it work for a few more years to stay competitive.
We will see some retirements though and have to work on new players without money to sign anyone helpful.
Our first round defensive lineman will again be a bust.

The jig with staying competitive may be up though.. we'll see how it goes from here but I'm not sure we're getting our annual late season push towards .500 this time.

 

[The Unrest Cure]

This is the NFL: if you aren't improving you are actively getting worse.

Are we improving?

 

[Judge_Smails]

I listened to Underhill’s pod on Saturday and I think the biggest point he made was the one that gets brushed under the rug.

The casual fan want DA to be fired to punish him as the singular scapegoat for all the Saints problems.

I’m in no way endorsing DA, and I I know NO ONE wants to hear what Mickey said (look beyond the results) but I’m looking at it from a business perspective.

It’s not DA’s fault the cap is in shambles (and it is), it’s not DAs fault that his highest priced players are mostly ineffective, aging vets because we are forced to push salary out and only a small part (I’m sure he had input but no real control) of the draft failures are his fault.

What I’m setting up to say is a new coach won’t change much and a good coach won’t take this job.

You have the tear down and clean up before you get to the rebuild. NU pointed out it will take up to 3 years to clean the cap up because we can’t simply cut all the high priced vets, we will have to push money out just to get under the cap, like we do every single season ($80 plus million over next season)

My point is, I’m deducting that they would be fine keeping DA as long as they can to continue the tear down/clean up portion to make this a desirable job before bringing in a top coaching prospect.

I cannot agree with having a loser like Allen playing a further role in shaping the roster for the next coach.

Yet, it seems sort of likely that Loomis and Allen will both be back next year even if this team loses 12 games and gets a top 4 pick.

I would not be surprised if they have a losing record in 25 and are still around. Carr as well.

 

[Cajun Chat]

I listened to Underhill’s pod on Saturday and I think the biggest point he made was the one that gets brushed under the rug.

The casual fan want DA to be fired to punish him as the singular scapegoat for all the Saints problems.

I’m in no way endorsing DA, and I I know NO ONE wants to hear what Mickey said (look beyond the results) but I’m looking at it from a business perspective.

It’s not DA’s fault the cap is in shambles (and it is), it’s not DAs fault that his highest priced players are mostly ineffective, aging vets because we are forced to push salary out and only a small part (I’m sure he had input but no real control) of the draft failures are his fault.

What I’m setting up to say is a new coach won’t change much and a good coach won’t take this job.

You have the tear down and clean up before you get to the rebuild. NU pointed out it will take up to 3 years to clean the cap up because we can’t simply cut all the high priced vets, we will have to push money out just to get under the cap, like we do every single season ($80 plus million over next season)

My point is, I’m deducting that they would be fine keeping DA as long as they can to continue the tear down/clean up portion to make this a desirable job before bringing in a top coaching prospect.

All good points but that assumes that they will start the tear down, which under current leadership, have proven unwilling to do so.

 

[austrian-saint]

At least for me, that's not even a question if we should tear it down. We have to. The roster is old, it is expensive cause we kicked the can down the road for years. I'm not saying, that I didn't support the decision to try to field a competitive team and try to stay in win now mode. But it's over. It's officialy over. We failed the last years and we're failing miserably this year. No need to kick the can even further.
But, and that's my point, I don't think that we're such a f*** up franchise, that no one wants that job. I really don't. The Saints do have the reputation to not be a "Hire & Fire" organisation. Coaches get their time to build something and that's exactly why I think that the HC job in NOLA is attractive. Don't get me wrong: I want DA to be fired. He needs to be fired, cause I don't want him anywhere near around this franchis in rebuilding mode. He had his chance and he failed. He got all the pieces he wanted from QB, to OC. He got everything and we're sitting at 2-5 and we're totally screwed.
I also think that it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get rid of Loomis, but I think that's wishful thinking. If HC candidates know, that they have to build the team from the ground up with the cap issues we're in and they know they get at least 3 years to do that, I don't think that this is not attractive.
Everyone knows that the next few years won't be pretty, but we will have some high draft picks. Whoever becomes HC will have the chance to draft a number of young players, he will have the chance to draft "his" QB. Even if this - let's call it a "project" - doesn't end well, we would be in a significantly better cap situation and any new HC afterwards would have a very good starting point. But with, for example, Ben Johnson as HC with the prospect of being able/allowed to build something over a tenure of at least three years... I don't think that would be that unattractive.
But DA has to go. With him we don't need to start a rebuild. This has to happen with new faces. At best from General Manager to DC.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Judge_Smails]

At least for me, that's not even a question if we should tear it down. We have to. The roster is old, it is expensive cause we kicked the can down the road for years. I'm not saying, that I didn't support the decision to try to field a competitive team and try to stay in win now mode. But it's over. It's officialy over. We failed the last years and we're failing miserably this year. No need to kick the can even further.
But, and that's my point, I don't think that we're such a f*** up franchise, that no one wants that job. I really don't. The Saints do have the reputation to not be a "Hire & Fire" organisation. Coaches get their time to build something and that's exactly why I think that the HC job in NOLA is attractive. Don't get me wrong: I want DA to be fired. He needs to be fired, cause I don't want him anywhere near around this franchis in rebuilding mode. He had his chance and he failed. He got all the pieces he wanted from QB, to OC. He got everything and we're sitting at 2-5 and we're totally screwed.
I also think that it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get rid of Loomis, but I think that's wishful thinking. If HC candidates know, that they have to build the team from the ground up with the cap issues we're in and they know they get at least 3 years to do that, I don't think that this is not attractive.
Everyone knows that the next few years won't be pretty, but we will have some high draft picks. Whoever becomes HC will have the chance to draft a number of young players, he will have the chance to draft "his" QB. Even if this - let's call it a "project" - doesn't end well, we would be in a significantly better cap situation and any new HC afterwards would have a very good starting point. But with, for example, Ben Johnson as HC with the prospect of being able/allowed to build something over a tenure of at least three years... I don't think that would be that unattractive.
But DA has to go. With him we don't need to start a rebuild. This has to happen with new faces. At best from General Manager to DC.

Sorry for the long post.

In today’s NFL, I still think it is possible to turn the Saints fortunes around totally in only a couple of years, but it would mean having a front office and coaching staff in place that know how to build a new culture of success and new roster foundation that is fit to win in today’s NFL.

In contrast Mickey and Dennis Allen are literally just trying to hang on/tread water in hopes of a miracle saving them. That strategy is what results in a permanent rebuild.

 

[Saint Jack]

In today’s NFL, I still think it is possible to turn the Saints fortunes around totally in only a couple of years, but it would mean having a front office and coaching staff in place that know how to build a new culture of success and new roster foundation that is fit to win in today’s NFL.

In contrast Mickey and Dennis Allen are literally just trying to hang on/tread water in hopes of a miracle saving them. That strategy is what results in a permanent rebuild.

Actually, that’s the norm.
I’ve lost count of how many teams I thought would be terrible forever only to turn it around in one to two years.