The Zion Problem (1 Viewer)

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LAhotsauce said:
And that is a problem for Milwaukee. They struck gold and won it all 4 years ago, but other than that the Giannis era has been full of 1st and 2nd round exits. Including another 1st round exit to the Heat a couple years ago with Giannis playing. There is a decent chance we see Giannis exit Milwaukee via trade this summer.
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That’s a fair point, but haven’t injuries to Middleton and (the past 2 years), Giannis played a role in their playoff exits? Even so, it’s valid to worry about the Pelicans/Zion due to injury concerns.

I do think you’re right that Giannis is on another team in the next season or 2. Isn’t that Bucks roster getting a bit old?
 
Loco Hornet Fan said:
My point is that I don’t think teams actually respect those attempts or alter their coverages based on them.

If Zion started attempting a few 3’s per game and only hit 19%, 1) fans would complain/go nuts and 2) opposing teams would sit back and let him take those shots.

I think you’re right though, we will probably just have to agree to disagree here (which is ok).
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Not if you don't attempt any they don't... The percentage don't matter as much as the threat.... Hell - take a couple pull up 10 foot jumpers for christs sake... anything to vary your game and make a defense not know with 100% certainty what's exactly coming...

If Zion makes 11 shots in a game on 18 attempts... it's going to be 24 points... If SGA makes 11 shots on 18 attempts in the same game... It's going to be 34 points... this is just math, and we are doing old math that no longer works...

Time to move on...
 
Infoman said:
Not if you don't attempt any they don't... The percentage don't matter as much as the threat.... Hell - take a couple pull up 10 foot jumpers for christs sake... anything to vary your game and make a defense not know with 100% certainty what's exactly coming...

If Zion makes 11 shots in a game on 18 attempts... it's going to be 24 points... If SGA makes 11 shots on 18 attempts in the same game... It's going to be 34 points... this is just math, and we are doing old math that no longer works...

Time to move on...
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That’s where we fundamentally disagree. I think the percentages do matter when teams consider the threat. NBA teams are not going to alter their coverages and game plan because a player (who is a top-tier inside scorer) shoots 20% from 3, especially at low volume.

I also think the math is a lot closer than you think between SGA’s and Zion’s points per shot attempts. Over the past 5 seasons (beginning of Zion’s career and SGA’s 2nd year with OKC), Zion actually averages more points per shot attempt than SGA. This season, Zion is averaging the same points per shot attempt as Trey Murphy, who takes 8.4 threes per game on 36%.
*stats from cleaning the glass.com)*

SGA does average more PPSA this season, but even still, it’s a number Zion has surpassed twice in his career.

I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree that the math is ridiculously out of our favor (especially if Zion actually got the foul calls he should) or that there’s no way to build around a player like Zion. We just see it differently.

That being said, questions about his injury history are hard to argue against.
 
Loco Hornet Fan said:
That’s where we fundamentally disagree. I think the percentages do matter when teams consider the threat. NBA teams are not going to alter their coverages and game plan because a player (who is a top-tier inside scorer) shoots 20% from 3, especially at low volume.

I also think the math is a lot closer than you think between SGA’s and Zion’s points per shot attempts. Over the past 5 seasons (beginning of Zion’s career and SGA’s 2nd year with OKC), Zion actually averages more points per shot attempt than SGA. This season, Zion is averaging the same points per shot attempt as Trey Murphy, who takes 8.4 threes per game on 36%.
*stats from cleaning the glass.com)*

SGA does average more PPSA this season, but even still, it’s a number Zion has surpassed twice in his career.

I understand what you’re saying, but I disagree that the math is ridiculously out of our favor (especially if Zion actually got the foul calls he should) or that there’s no way to build around a player like Zion. We just see it differently.

That being said, questions about his injury history are hard to argue against.
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I'm not sure what the stats show. How many free throws is SGA shooting per game comparatively. I mean SGA gets a foul called any time someone waves a hand within 2 feet of him. Zion's health history and health future is an issue, especially the way he plays. However, when healthy, he's not the problem. The team as a whole shoots poorly, commits too many crucial turnovers and plays poor defense too often. I'm not sure commitment to Zion causes it, but the team is either missing on the other player decisions (other than Trey, and now Missi perhaps) or missing on player development or the coaching is just bad.
 
cygnus_ltb said:
I'm not sure what the stats show. How many free throws is SGA shooting per game comparatively. I mean SGA gets a foul called any time someone waves a hand within 2 feet of him. Zion's health history and health future is an issue, especially the way he plays. However, when healthy, he's not the problem. The team as a whole shoots poorly, commits too many crucial turnovers and plays poor defense too often. I'm not sure commitment to Zion causes it, but the team is either missing on the other player decisions (other than Trey, and now Missi perhaps) or missing on player development or the coaching is just bad.
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Last time I looked, SGA takes just over 1 ft per game more than Zion. I think that’s silly due to how Zion plays vs SGA foul baiting (he’s obviously still a fantastic player).

I largely agree with you about the concerns & issues you raised. I admit to being an optimist about Zion’s body & attitude going forward. Hopefully his health issues improve in kind.

We have elements of a good playoff team, but some moves clearly need to be made. Hitting on this high draft pick and shoring up the coaching situation are musts.
 
This team ain’t winning shirt with Z as the primary option…. I’m sorry I just don’t see what yall are seeing.
 

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