The Zion Problem (1 Viewer)

[Dago]

 

[Infoman]

TM3 is the guy you build around... Zion will have good games against teams that can't defend or won't/can't build a wall on defense... Trey is a modern 3 level scorer with All-Star numbers that's getting better. Trey is the modern player you can build a contender around - Not Zion... Zion can be a good #2 to Trey... If he stays healthy.

 

[HoustonGold]

Shaq is right. Why were they dancing on the ceiling on their social media pages after last night?

Shaquille O'Neal was not impressed with Zion Williamson or his triple-double for the Pelicans

The Hall of Famer also admitted he didn't know who coached the Detroit Pistons on the broadcast.

www.nola.com

 

[Dago]

Shaq is right. Why were they dancing on the ceiling on their social media pages after last night?

Shaquille O'Neal was not impressed with Zion Williamson or his triple-double for the Pelicans

The Hall of Famer also admitted he didn't know who coached the Detroit Pistons on the broadcast.

www.nola.com

I love Shaq but this is just an ignorant take. Nobody is talking about the points....it's about the triple double. An incredibly efficient triple double since he did it in 13 shots and went 6-6 from the line

And for those complaining about Zion not shooting from long range, what about the guys who are supposed to be good shooters missing open looks as a result of Zion collapsing the defense and dishing it out? Who would you normally think has a greater chance of making an open 3? Your bulldozing forward or your guards?

 

[Infoman]

I love Shaq but this is just an ignorant take. Nobody is talking about the points....it's about the triple double. An incredibly efficient triple double since he did it in 13 shots and went 6-6 from the line

And for those complaining about Zion not shooting from long range, what about the guys who are supposed to be good shooters missing open looks as a result of Zion collapsing the defense and dishing it out? Who would you normally think has a greater chance of making an open 3? Your bulldozing forward or your guards?

He takes no shots... I'm not talking about "not shooting from long range"... He has ZERO shot making ability or variation in his game... In Shaq's era this was acceptable... It's just not anymore. It's not sustainable for your "best/go-to/your offense revolves around him" player in the modern NBA... There is not a single contender in the last decade that's been able to do so.

And as you alluded to... with Z being "the guy".... Unless we have 3 other players around him that are making an open 3 near automatic as he's collapsing the defense and dishing it out... We are going to lose.... because we are trading contested 2s for open 3s.

Z is a very good 1 trick player... But unless he's putting up near 30, and everyone around him is on fire from 3... Him being the guy is not a recipe for contention in the modern NBA...

This could all be different if he simply attempted three 3s per game.... Or could simply hit an 8ft jumper at a 50% clip 3-5 times a game... It's just not going to happen.

 

[Dago]

He takes no shots... I'm not talking about "not shooting from long range"... He has ZERO shot making ability or variation in his game... In Shaq's era this was acceptable... It's just not anymore. It's not sustainable for your "best/go-to/your offense revolves around him" player in the modern NBA... There is not a single contender in the last decade that's been able to do so.

And as you alluded to... with Z being "the guy".... Unless we have 3 other players around him that are making an open 3 near automatic as he's collapsing the defense and dishing it out... We are going to lose.... because we are trading contested 2s for open 3s.

Z is a very good 1 trick player... But unless he's putting up near 30, and everyone around him is on fire from 3... Him being the guy is not a recipe for contention in the modern NBA...

This could all be different if he simply attempted three 3s per game.... Or could simply hit an 8ft jumper at a 50% clip 3-5 times a game... It's just not going to happen.

So we would prefer seeing Zion take low percentage 3s than to collapse the defense and kick it out to a good shooter for an open shot?

If it's a matter of an open 3 being taken, I prefer to see the better shooter take it.

Everyone wants a big that can shoot 3s but there just ain't many of them out there. Zion destroys perimeter defenses enabling others who are better shooters to take open shots. Those shots wouldn't have a better chance of going in with Zion taking them

 

[Infoman]

So we would prefer seeing Zion take low percentage 3s than to collapse the defense and kick it out to a good shooter for an open shot?

If it's a matter of an open 3 being taken, I prefer to see the better shooter take it.

Everyone wants a big that can shoot 3s but there just ain't many of them out there. Zion destroys perimeter defenses enabling others who are better shooters to take open shots. Those shots wouldn't have a better chance of going in with Zion taking them

To be an elite "build a team around" player in the modern NBA... You have to take some shots - any shots - including 3s - that are not right at the rim.... what I prefer is irrelevant.

Zion is a great secondary scoring option that does 1 thing better than just about anyone in the NBA... He's an ISO one trick player that has to face a wall of defenders nearly every time he attempts a shot... It's not sustainable (from a scoring and health standpoint).... Nor will it ever be a winning formula. He can not dictate to a defense because he's no threat anywhere on the court except under the rim.

Unless the rest of the roster is full of "Prime Klay Thompson's" it's never going to work for him being the primary option.

We've already seen the closest it will be last year when guys like TM3 - CJ - BI - Herb - Larry - Hawk - Jose - Naji were solid from 3.... and as soon as they fell of... or when the playoffs start - Everything goes to hell....

 

[Dago]

To be an elite "build a team around" player in the modern NBA... You have to take some shots - any shots - including 3s - that are not right at the rim.... what I prefer is irrelevant.

Zion is a great secondary scoring option that does 1 thing better than just about anyone in the NBA... He's an ISO one trick player that has to face a wall of defenders nearly every time he attempts a shot... It's not sustainable (from a scoring and health standpoint).... Nor will it ever be a winning formula. He can not dictate to a defense because he's no threat anywhere on the court except under the rim.

Unless the rest of the roster is full of "Prime Klay Thompson's" it's never going to work for him being the primary option.

We've already seen the closest it will be last year when guys like TM3 - CJ - BI - Herb - Larry - Hawk - Jose - Naji were solid from 3.... and as soon as they fell of... or when the playoffs start - Everything goes to hell....

Your reasoning is not valid since Zion has not played in the playoffs

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Shaq is right. Why were they dancing on the ceiling on their social media pages after last night?

Shaquille O'Neal was not impressed with Zion Williamson or his triple-double for the Pelicans

The Hall of Famer also admitted he didn't know who coached the Detroit Pistons on the broadcast.

www.nola.com

I disagree.

While yes, there are a ton of average players in the NBA who can get you 22 points, but certainly not with that level of efficiency. And it’s not like 22 points is an outlier for Zion.

What people were celebrating was the efficiency of his scoring, but most importantly, how terrific his all-around performance was and how well he controlled the game. It wasn’t “hooray, 22 points!”.

 

[Infoman]

Your reasoning is not valid since Zion has not played in the playoffs

It was evident in the regular season... I don't expect it to get better in the playoffs - should we ever make it there again.... that's my reasoning.

I mean... I could be wrong.... but I see no evidence to the contrary at this point.

I'll ask again - Since Z attempts 17 shots a game with 0.5 of them not being right at the rim... What other contending team in the last 10 seasons has had it's best player have that large of a discrepancy in his shot variation - making them the model of predictability? I'll wait....

And I know he's efficient as hell at what he does.... and if this was 20 years ago.... I'd be all in on him as "the guy".... It's not tho.

 

[HoustonGold]

The only way this team is moving forward is trading Zion in offseason. Get a ransom on draft picks like we got for Davis. At least Zion is getting his trade stock back up. Sorry but this guy has held us down for 6 years. Time to move on.

 

[HoustonGold]

Because we are stuck on Zion teams like OKC, Memphis, and the Houston Rockets has completely passed us up on rebuilds. Yeah let that sink in. Trajan Langdon saw the writing on the wall and went to the Pistons where he found some nice pieces. Meanwhile we are stuck on Zion.

 

[LAhotsauce]

So we would prefer seeing Zion take low percentage 3s than to collapse the defense and kick it out to a good shooter for an open shot?

If it's a matter of an open 3 being taken, I prefer to see the better shooter take it.

Everyone wants a big that can shoot 3s but there just ain't many of them out there. Zion destroys perimeter defenses enabling others who are better shooters to take open shots. Those shots wouldn't have a better chance of going in with Zion taking them

It doesn't need to be all be 3s. But it should be something that opens lanes for other players to cut. When BI was having his triple double threats, you'd notice his double teams came out to get him near or past the 3 point line. That allowed players like Herb, Trey, Larry, Dyson, and Naji room to cut for easy baskets close to the rim. There is a reason Trey had a higher output with BI on the floor vs Zion. And that was with Trey being more of a catch and shoot/cutter back then. Even that was with BI only attempting 3 or 4 threes per game. But teams still respected it.

With Zion teams can just build a wall and hope the Pelicans are off from 3 pt range. They don't aggressively go to take the ball out of his hands as early. Cutting lanes are clogged. It's more difficult to execute an offense against that. Especially against long athletic teams like the Rockets. Zion literally just shot a combined 44% against them. Zion needs to at least be able to pull up in open space from 10 - 15 and at least attempt 2 - 4 threes a game and be a decent threat.

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Name one contending team in the last 5-8 seasons who's best player (the player that they are built around) takes less than 1 three pointer a game and shoots less than 70% from the FT line... I'll wait.

And Giannis takes 2.2 threes a game - and shoots right at 70% from the line... he's the only player you can look at in comparison... and he's better in every way, and at least attempts any kind of real shots.

Zion is a one trick player (it's a good trick)... But you can't build a modern contending team around a player with zero flexibility or variation in his game - and no shot to speak of.

Yeah, surround him with shooters is a no brainer... Problem is... One of those shooters has to be the guy you build around in today's NBA... and Zion has to be the second fiddle to him... If you want to contend.

Giannis only shot 19% on like 3 3-pointers per game when they won the title.

Based on how few 3’s he actually made, I don’t believe that affected the
Suns’ gamelan all that much.

A low percentage at low volume is not better than historically high efficiency at the rim. I don’t think those shot attempts are what makes Giannis “Giannis.”